Hyper grace

[PeterJens]

The mindset that says that "hyper-grace" is a license to sin does not know what grace is.

This is not a mindset, it is a reality. The church that follows this approach will be pushed into the sea, nothing will stop its death.

Sin is like a cancer, it spreads. There once were rules, understanding, respect, limitations. Now all these things are being abandoned, with doing things that are right in their own eyes. Dreams like this do not last, you reap what you sow.

It is obvious to me many of you are quite happy in this camp, but unfortunately you deny the very giver of life.

 

[crossnote]

The Holy Spirit in us is conforming us to His Holiness, though imperfect, that is the direction He is taking us in this life before glory.
Sure, there is the positional holiness where we are complete , but there is the outworking process going on now.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is not a mindset, it is a reality. The church that follows this approach will be pushed into the sea, nothing will stop its death.

Sin is like a cancer, it spreads. There once were rules, understanding, respect, limitations. Now all these things are being abandoned, with doing things that are right in their own eyes. Dreams like this do not last, you reap what you sow.

It is obvious to me many of you are quite happy in this camp, but unfortunately you deny the very giver of life.

There is no problem of sin in the true church. Grace causes people to want to walk with God. (not perfectly, but in Grace and mercy)

The problem with sin in is the false church, or the licentious church. They can not be healed of sin, because they have yet to repent in faith and receive Gods salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Holy Spirit in us is conforming us to His Holiness, though imperfect, that is the direction He is taking us in this life before glory.
Sure, there is the positional holiness where we are complete , but there is the outworking process going on now.

People just want to see themselves more holy than they really are, so lal they have left is to judge people who accept grace..

 

[Grace777x70]

The legalistic mindset is "sin-conscious" but God is "Christ-conscious". God is not an evangelical with a sin-consciousness. The number one enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ is the so-called "Christian religion with a legalistic mindset" just as it was when Jesus was on the earth. It was the law-based Pharisees that He came against not those who came to Him looking for His grace!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Timothy 3:5
having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

 

[ladylynn]

I agree with you 100%!

We could rewrite the start of Psalm 23.

"The Lord is my shepherd, He breaketh my legs"

Just kidding! The discipline/correction of the Lord is done through His word. The word for discipline/correction is the word for "child-training" in the original language.

Ahhh yes brother Grace!! Sadly, many a believer fights for that interpretation of the 23rd Psalm. And I also am in agreement with you about the Word of God being used on how we are being corrected here in our journey., not the rod for beating but the rod for direction., His rod and His staff they comfort me... not beat me. Amen.

I see no 'woodshed' to fearfully enter into to receive the 'dreaded' beating brother crossnote. Jesus is the Good Shepherd who Loves and cares for the sheep. The shepherds that beat the sheep and cut the sheep's legs off are but hirelings who do not - nor did they ever "love" the sheep. Jesus gave His life for the sheep. Amen.

 

[james57]

Those who don't love God need the penalty for sin in place, not those who do.

If a government official in the country you lived in came and told you, they had the power and authority to remove from you the penalty attached to the law concerning you harming the person you loved the most in this world, would that knowledge then cause you to go out and harm the person you loved most or treat them unkindly? Of course it wouldn't, such a notion is ridiculous.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is so true! The legalistic mindset denies the work of Christ in our lives! They hold to "their" form of godliness but in reality they are denying the work that Christ already accomplished for us.

I think where some of the confusion comes in is that people "think" the grace-based mindset is saying that sin is not sin anymore. This is not true! Sin is still sin but it has to be looked at through the finished work of Jesus. It's faith in Him that saves us - not stopping from sinning.

We have more faith in what Adam caused in the earth then what our Lord has done for us. This is shameful! Let's embrace the grace of God and have our life based on Him alone!

2 Timothy 3:5
having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

 

[crossnote]

Ahhh yes brother Grace!! Sadly, many a believer fights for that interpretation of the 23rd Psalm. And I also am in agreement with you about the Word of God being used on how we are being corrected here in our journey., not the rod for beating but the rod for direction., His rod and His staff they comfort me... not beat me. Amen.

I see no 'woodshed' to fearfully enter into to receive the 'dreaded' beating brother crossnote. Jesus is the Good Shepherd who Loves and cares for the sheep. The shepherds that beat the sheep and cut the sheep's legs off are but hirelings who do not - nor did they ever "love" the sheep. Jesus gave His life for the sheep. Amen.

No one is talking breaking sheeps legs.
How do you explain this?...

Hebrews 12:5-11 (KJV)
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[Grace777x70]

Very true my brother!

The law was made for the unrighteous not the righteous. Without any restraint imagine the mess this world would be in. The unbeliever needs the law!

Us believers live from the law of love, from the law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and the perfect law of liberty. These are the "laws" the Lord puts in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant.

Those who don't love God need the penalty for sin in place, not those who do.

If a government official in the country you lived in came and told you, they had the power and authority to remove from you the penalty attached to the law concerning you harming the person you loved the most in this world, would that knowledge then cause you to go out and harm the person you loved most or treat them unkindly? Of course it wouldn't, such a notion is ridiculous.

 

[ladylynn]

I do believe Brother Grace777x70 and Brother James57 are well acquainted with the Gospel of grace and truth!
I thank my God for you both here on these forums.

 

[james57]

I do believe Brother Grace777x70 and Brother James57 are well acquainted with the Gospel of grace and truth!
I thank my God for you both here on these forums.

I thank God for you too!

 

[KennethC]

Very true my brother!

The law was made for the unrighteous not the righteous. Without any restraint imagine the mess this world would be in. The unbeliever needs the law!

Us believers live from the law of love, from the law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and the perfect law of liberty. These are the "laws" the Lord puts in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant.

And that law of liberty in Christ by walking in LOVE establishes and upholds the law/commandments as Jesus and Paul cleary said and showed.

The commandments were never abolished, only in written ordinance form were they done away not the moral that is written in our hearts and minds.

 

[crossnote]

I do believe Brother Grace777x70 and Brother James57 are well acquainted with the Gospel of grace and truth!
I thank my God for you both here on these forums.

Ok, maybe they can answer for you what to do with this passage...

Hebrews 12:5-11 (KJV)
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And that law of liberty in Christ by walking in LOVE establishes and upholds the law/commandments as Jesus and Paul cleary said and showed.

The commandments were never abolished, only in written ordinance form were they done away not the moral that is written in our hearts and minds.

You can not obey the law as God requires. so it does not matter..

That is where legalism fails. It states they are righteous, when the law still condemns them, every minute of every day.

If the law is not taken away, we have no hope. only fear and death.

 

[psychomom]

In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train[SUP]http://biblehub.com/esv/isaiah/6.htm#footnotes[/SUP] of his robe filled the temple.
Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
And one called to another and said:“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
the whole earth is full of his glory!

And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.

And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!”


Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar.
And he touched my mouth and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for.”
(Isaiah 6:1-7)

we live by grace

AND must remember God is Holy. Holy. Holy.

 

[james57]

The commandments were never abolished, only in written ordinance form were they done away not the moral that is written in our hearts and minds.

If only you accepted the penalty for sin had been removed from the Christian(Christ is our sole righteousness), we would be in tandem, but alas.

 

[Grace777x70]

I love this scripture! I thank God for it! It shows His love for us!

The "chastening " as the word used in Kings James language means child training. It is the exact same word used in 2 Tim. 3:16 where it says The Word of God ...is for instruction in righteousness. Instruction is "chastening". Jesus said the words I speak to you are spirit and life. The Lord "chastens" us with His word to our spirits. ( be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live. )

We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We do not become righteous by doing righteous acts. We do righteous acts because we are righteous! When we are doing something that will bring destruction either to ourselves or others - the Lord send His Word to "correct" us.

Now, religion has taught us that God relates to us in the New Covenant the same way He did in the Old Covenant but this is not true. Massive confusion comes to us sincere believers when we mix up the covenants Jesus calls it a " New Covenant " for a good reason.

Sometimes certain words bring with it connotations. For me with my religious background the term " bringing me out to the woodshed" brings with it the wrong thoughts concerning how God deals with destructive behavior.

Religion says that God brought this sickness on you or your car broke down because you didn't tithe...or any other religious nonsense that is like that. It does not display the true nature of our God.

Forgive us for not explaining the "connotations" that come with certain phrases which can cause confusion.

Our Father is a good, good Father! We love Him and trust Him!

No one is talking breaking sheeps legs.
How do yo explain this?...

Hebrews 12:5-11 (KJV)
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[KennethC]

Proverbs 13:24

He that spareth his rod hateth his son, but he that loveth him chasteneth him be times.