Hyper grace

[james57]

We will not sin if we walk in love, but this very thing we find so hard to do. If in the teaching the failure and causes of failure are never discussed or even admitted, not surprisingly people go astray, and loose the essence of righteousness, even dwelling in the vine, because now there is no difference between sinner and saint.

Paul had a simple solution:

For sin shall not be you master for you are not under law but under grace rom6:14

I agree with Joseph prince. Most who go to church see little victory over sin in their life because they insist on living under law not grace

If we accept what Paul states the chief cause/ reason of failure is living under law- not grace

 

[Grace777x70]

By the way - Paul did not say that "There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk after the Spirit.."

All literal translations of the bible show that "...who walk after the spirit" is not in the original text.It was "added" on by the translators. The bible in it's original form is inspired but the translations have their bias. King James version has this .."who walk after the Spirit" added to it. Check out Rom 8:1 in other translations and you will find that out.

The translators of the King James version added that phrase because grace is scandalous! There is NOW no condemnation at all to those who are in Christ. Now in verse 4 of chapter 8 says that the requirement of the law is fulfilled in us if we walk according to the spirit. This has nothing to do with no condemnation for us in Christ now because the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.

The true grace of God is scandalous and the religious mindset rebels against it. I am not saying you my brother are rebelling against it. I am simply stating that the religious mindset is at odds with the grace of God. So, please do not take it that way. The unfathomable riches of His grace is what we need a revelation of it and it is all found in what Christ has done for us!

No the mistake is to continue to apply the MORAL and WRITTEN as one and the same.

Second how do figure you will transgress/sin if you are walking in LOVE and bearing the burdens of others ???

If we are walking as mentioned in the question, and also how Paul commanded then we would be producing the Fruit of the Holy Spirit.

When you look at list given by Paul you will see the fruit is the direct opposite and will not lead one to transgress, or like Peter said, "will not stumble."

This is why Paul said no condemnation to those in Christ who walk by the Spirit.

Walking by the Spirit will lead us from giving into the flesh !!!

 

[VioletReigns]

Don't you get it? It hasn't anything to do with doing anything! It has to do with believing what Jesus said. When we put on the mind of Christ, we are essentially grasping His thoughts on every matter. And if we realized that He washed away our sins and that He is right now conforming us into His image, we'd be rejoicing with tremendous joy that we can rest our minds on the matter. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in you. He doesn't need your help. He just needs you to believe Him. And if you truly believed the miracle of grace, you would see that you are literally walking in the spirit already.

 

[Grace777x70]

"There is the issue though because it is not a done deal, as the law still exists for the unrighteous" Very true! Well said! Thank God we are the righteousness of God in Christ now! We as believers will never be more righteous then we are now in Christ. Christ is our righteousness! The FRUIT of that righteousness can grow out of us as we keep our eyes on Jesus. 2 corth 3:18 reveals our how the fruit of who we are becomes manifested outwardly in our lives. it is a wonderful salvation we have in Him!

There is the issue though because it is not a done deal, as the law still exists for the unrighteous.

Also Paul continued to warn believers about returning to sinful ways and not continuing in the sound doctrine teachings of Christ. He even warned Timothy of becoming impure again do to partaking in sin again.

We are under Grace therefore we walk by the Spirit and in LOVE, and by doing so there is no law because we would not have to worry about any consequences, thus the law has no bearing to those who do not transgress.

 

[VioletReigns]

Oswald Chambers - Daily Devotional for NOV 30
By the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain… —1 Corinthians 15:10

The way we continually talk about our own inabilities is an insult to our Creator. To complain over our incompetence is to accuse God falsely of having overlooked us.

Get into the habit of examining from God’s perspective those things that sound so humble to men. You will be amazed at how unbelievably inappropriate and disrespectful they are to Him. We say things such as, “Oh, I shouldn’t claim to be sanctified; I’m not a saint.” But to say that before God means, “No, Lord, it is impossible for You to save and sanctify me; there are opportunities I have not had and so many imperfections in my brain and body; no, Lord, it isn’t possible.” That may sound wonderfully humble to others, but before God it is an attitude of defiance.

Conversely, the things that sound humble before God may sound exactly the opposite to people. To say, “Thank God, I know I am saved and sanctified,” is in God’s eyes the purest expression of humility. It means you have so completely surrendered yourself to God that you know He is true.

Never worry about whether what you say sounds humble before others or not. But always be humble before God, and allow Him to be your all in all.

There is only one relationship that really matters, and that is your personal relationship to your personal Redeemer and Lord. If you maintain that at all costs, letting everything else go, God will fulfill His purpose through your life. One individual life may be of priceless value to God’s purposes, and yours may be that life.

 

[Grace777x70]

Good question! Col 3;1-4 says that when Christ who is our life is revealed then we too are revealed with Him. In verse 2 it says to set our minds on things above where we are sitting with Christ. I believe we are simply walking out who we are in Christ.

It's the same principle as Christ was slain before the foundation of the world but He still came to this earth and walked out what was already done.

So, the answer is yes to both it's all a matter of what Christ has already done for us and yes we are walking out the truth of that on this earth too.

So are you seeing our walk all a matter of what Christ has done 'for us' but not what He is also doing 'in us'?

 

[oldthennew]

to claim that we are righteous is to claim that righteousness is what righteousness does -

as for us, we continually need our High Priest to intercede for us, for we are but weak flesh,
but now we recognize through our conversion that we must always seek and go to
Him that is sitting on the right hand of God always and forever for us......

 

[Grace777x70]

Sin will destroy us and those we love! It's that very "hyper-grace" that we speak against " that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly and to live sensibly , righteously and godly in this present age." Titus 2: 11-12

I have listened to over a thousand sermons on the gospel of grace/Christ and I have never heard anyone say that it's ok to do whatever you want and to go and live a lifestyle of sin. A mindset that says people are preaching that when they talk about the grace of Christ tells me that they have not really had a revelation of Jesus yet.

It is absolutely impossible to have a revelation of the gospel of Christ/grace and say that it is saying we can just go and live how ever we want. If people do not say " Are you saying we can live however we want and sin all we want?" - we are not preaching the gospel that Paul preached. Paul said 3 times there were those that accused him of the very same thing - saying we should sin so that grace would abound.

Whenever you are accused of saying that people can live however they want because of grace is a sure sign that we are preaching Paul's revelation of the gospel of Christ!

Make no mistake - grace is scandalous! I love God's hyper-grace that is revealed in the gospel of Christ!

This is equivalent to saying your conscience should be ignored. This is when morality goes out the window.

Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
1 Tim 4:2

So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
Acts 24:16

They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
Rom 2:15

I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit—
Rom 13:5

Sin is an important issue in our lives. It is a denial of Jesus and His work in our hearts. Once you compromise this, there is no kingdom of heaven, because heaven relies on doing the right thing. It is doing the wrong thing that leads to death.

But this is the core criticism of hyper-grace, that saying behaviour is irrelevent is becoming an unbeliever, and denying the power of the cross.

It is also obviously a denial of the teaching of the apostles and Jesus. He is the cornerstone of righteousness.

 

[starblue]

Thank you for explaining that James, it has helped me understand more now about sin and how we are now forgiven. I have been struggling to understand this for ages.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Where do you get Satan uses the commandments against us ???

Now the sting of death [is] sin, and the power of sin [is] the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56​

 

[Grace777x70]

You said...." but you are the one who is letting how other men have defined repentance instead of using what Jesus said"

I agree with you in that it would "appear" I am saying something different then what our Lord said. However if you read the context of the passage that you are referring to of Jesus saying the Pharisees to show forth fruit that reveals their repentance/changing of their mind - then if Pharisees had true repentance they would have to say " I believe in the One who the Father has sent". this would be their FRUIT of repentance. Of course we know that they were establishing their own righteousness by doing good works and their keeping of the law.

The thief hanging on the cross "repented/changed his mind" and his change of mind was recorded in what he said. He had no "fruit" of changing his behavior in order to be with Jesus.

The Pharisees had the "seemly" fruit of righteousness in their daily lives but they had no true repentance towards God. Jesus said that the Jews were to have a righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees which blew their minds because the Pharisees were so holy according to the law. There is a vast difference between our own works of righteousness ( fruit) and trusting in God's righteousness ( which has fruit as well ) as revealed in the finish work of Christ.

Acts 26:20 states that the gentiles should repent and turn towards God. This means they were to change their mind from living their own way to having faith in what God has done for them in Christ.

I have to go but wanted to leave off with this to you.

You state we are letting traditions get in the way, but you are the one who is letting how other men have defined repentance instead of using what Jesus said.

Change of mind is only part of what repentance means, as Jesus cleary said do works met with repentance. This means our actions need to reflect the repentance, as if we continue to willfully keep doing those sins it wasn't a true repentance !!!

 

[posthuman]

I see no 'woodshed'

try looking in & around Hebrews 12:5, or Proverbs 3:11

 

[crossnote]

By the way - Paul did not say that "There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk after the Spirit.."

All literal translations of the bible show that "...who walk after the spirit" is not in the original text.It was "added" on by the translators. The bible in it's original form is inspired but the translations have their bias. King James version has this .."who walk after the Spirit" added to it. Check out Rom 8:1 in other translations and you will find that out.

The translators of the King James version added that phrase because grace is scandalous! There is NOW no condemnation at all to those who are in Christ. Now in verse 4 of chapter 8 says that the requirement of the law is fulfilled in us if we walk according to the spirit. This has nothing to do with no condemnation for us in Christ now because the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.

The true grace of God is scandalous and the religious mindset rebels against it. I am not saying you my brother are rebelling against it. I am simply stating that the religious mindset is at odds with the grace of God. So, please do not take it that way. The unfathomable riches of His grace is what we need a revelation of it and it is all found in what Christ has done for us!

But Paul did say...

Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[crossnote]

Good question! Col 3;1-4 says that when Christ who is our life is revealed then we too are revealed with Him. In verse 2 it says to set our minds on things above where we are sitting with Christ. I believe we are simply walking out who we are in Christ.

It's the same principle as Christ was slain before the foundation of the world but He still came to this earth and walked out what was already done.

So, the answer is yes to both it's all a matter of what Christ has already done for us and yes we are walking out the truth of that on this earth too.

I'm coming to the conclusion you ascribe to the HG teaching. Why do you keep avoiding the present sanctifying work of the Spirit work in us?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But Paul did say...

Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

That's what walking in the spirit of no condemnation produces.

 

[Grace777x70]

Very true! I love it! That statement still does not negate that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ. It's because we are IN CHRIST that we have no condemnation. Walking after the spirit causes us to fulfill the requirements of the law. The true Christian life is almost too good to be true. ( the gospel actually means "the nearly too good to be true news" )

But Paul did say...

Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The thief hanging on the cross "repented/changed his mind" and his change of mind was recorded in what he said. He had no "fruit" of changing his behavior in order to be with Jesus.

I beg to differ.

Therefore through him let us offer up a sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of lips that confess his name. Hebrews 13:15

And [the thief] said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when you comest into your kingdom. Luke 23:42

If you confess with your mouth “Jesus [is] Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:9-10​

 

[royalscot]

if you dont have a conclusion, then let me ask, you, in a humanly, logical way. around 1500 ad the holy bible go s to print.
70 ad has already happened. and according to non christian jews. to follow the full law given to moses. you need a temple of stone. (so before opening the bible, it is clear you cant follow this law fully. ) yet here we are talking about sin.

when simply, god reveled himself threw the jewish people, then jesus christ ,shows up, at a time in history, to show us the way via grace a gift. then the bible went to print,(1500ad) and at some time in 2000 century, we opened it

spot the confusion.

 

[Grace777x70]

I'm sorry as I don't know what HG teaching is. I embrace how the Holy Spirit reveals Christ to us!!! In His revealing of Jesus I see myself in Him and the by-product of that is that I am transformed. It's beautiful!

There are 2 aspects to grace.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.

I'm coming to the conclusion you ascribe to the HG teaching. Why do you keep avoiding the present sanctifying work of the Spirit work in us?

 

[Grace777x70]

I think it has to do with the connotations of what it means " being taken to the woodshed". To some people it means being physically beat and so they are responding to the term. Could be just a misunderstanding.

try looking in & around Hebrews 12:5, or Proverbs 3:11