Hyper grace

[Grace777x70]

Yes!!! Bless the Lord...He loved us so much and wanted to have fellowship with us that He sent Jesus to take away all our sins so that we can finally view God with a renewed mind and see Him as He truly is. We were the ones that were enemies in our own minds because of our sin.

It affected GOD to the point that he sent his son to die for us.

 

[oldthennew]

MATT. 11:11.
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than
John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

the reason that He was called the greatest man, that there was no greater than John, of course
other that our Lord, was because He stood up for the marriage Laws in the Torah, he died for them,,,

 

[Grace777x70]

Interesting. So there must have been no man that stood up for the marriage Laws of the torah before John? I find that hard to believe on it's own merit.

I thought John was the greatest because he was announcing the coming of Jesus their Messiah..telling them to repent/change their mind that they do have sin and in need of the Messiah....a Savior that would save them from their sins! The Pharisees of course did not recognize John the Baptist

MATT. 11:11.
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than
John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

the reason that He was called the greatest man, that there was no greater than John, of course
other that our Lord, was because He stood up for the marriage Laws in the Torah, he died for them,,,

 

[Angela53510]

Christ was offered once, but his blood on the mercy seat is efficacious until now. In Hebrews 1:3, the verb is aorist tense, which cannot always be translated as past tense. So it's not that Christ made purification for sons and ceased, he is making purification of sins without ceasing.

[Christ], because he continues forever [as a high priest], holds the priesthood permanently. Therefore also he is able to save completely those who draw near to God through him, [because he] always lives in order to intercede on their behalf. Hebrews 7:24-25​

Since you really don't say which verb in Heb.1:3, but you do leave a clue it is in the aorist tense, I am going to go with ποιησάμενος or poiasamenos, which is a aorist middle participle. It comes from the word "to make". The use of the middle suggests that Christ Himself in His own person made the purification. The aorist points to the completed action. Aorist expresses the action which occurred before the main verb, ἐκάθισεν or ekathisen, meaning "to sit down, to take one's seat."

"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high," Hebrews 1:3

"ὃς ὢν ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης καὶ χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ, φέρων τε τὰ πάντα τῷ ῥήματι τῆς δυνάμεως, δι᾽ αὑτοῦ καθαρισμὸν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ποιησάμενος ἐκάθισεν ἐν δεξιᾷ τῆς μεγαλωσύνης ἐν ὑψηλοῖς," Hebrews 1:3 Greek.

Once again, someone is spouting Greek who does not have the faintest clue how to read or translate the Greek. Translation is not about looking up individual words in the Blue Letter Bible or Strong's, or even worse, quoting some preacher who is twisting the Greek to prove his own doctrines.

Christ is NOT making purification without ceasing. You are thinking of the imperfect tense. Imperfect is an ongoing action in the past. Although there are some other uses of the aorist in Greek, the MAIN use, including Heb 1:3 is a completed action in the past. And the present tense can also infer an on-going action in the present.

I do wish people would learn Greek, esp. the syntax and grammar, including verbs, noun cases, and every Greek student's favourite (NOT!) participles! Then we could have some decent discussions, instead of people passing off a knowledge of Greek, which is in fact totally wrong!


However, after looking at the Greek for Hebrews 7:24-25, I do agree that it is the continuing or unending state. In other words, the action of purfication was a ONCE for all time action. But Christ being the high priest is forever, a continuing state. He intercedes, but the sacrifice for sin was done on the cross, forever! Christ intercedes, but he longer has to make a continuing sacrifice. That is RCC doctrine, and the Greek proves it totally wrong.

 

[Grace777x70]

Luke 9:54-55 or perhaps it would be better in greek for you

ιδοντες δε οι μαθηται ιακωβος και ιωαννης ειπαν κυριε θελεις ειπωμεν πυρ καταβηναι απο του ουρανου και αναλωσαι αυτους στραφεις δε επετιμησεν αυτοις

Selah

Since you really don't say which verb in Heb.1:3, but you do leave a clue it is in the aorist tense, I am going to go with ποιησάμενος or poiasamenos, which is a aorist middle participle. It comes from the word "to make". The use of the middle suggests that Christ Himself in His own person made the purification. The aorist points to the completed action. Aorist expresses the action which occurred before the main verb, ἐκάθισεν or ekathisen, meaning "to sit down, to take one's seat."

"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high," Hebrews 1:3

"ὃς ὢν ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης καὶ χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ, φέρων τε τὰ πάντα τῷ ῥήματι τῆς δυνάμεως, δι᾽ αὑτοῦ καθαρισμὸν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ποιησάμενος ἐκάθισεν ἐν δεξιᾷ τῆς μεγαλωσύνης ἐν ὑψηλοῖς," Hebrews 1:3 Greek.

Once again, someone is spouting Greek who does not have the faintest clue how to read or translate the Greek. Translation is not about looking up individual words in the Blue Letter Bible or Strong's, or even worse, quoting some preacher who is twisting the Greek to prove his own doctrines.

Christ is NOT making purification without ceasing. You are thinking of the imperfect tense. Imperfect is an ongoing action in the past. Although there are some other uses of the aorist in Greek, the MAIN use, including Heb 1:3 is a completed action in the past. And the present tense can also infer an on-going action in the present.

I do wish people would learn Greek, esp. the syntax and grammar, including verbs, noun cases, and every Greek student's favourite (NOT!) participles! Then we could have some decent discussions, instead of people passing off a knowledge of Greek, which is in fact totally wrong!


However, after looking at the Greek for Hebrews 7:24-25, I do agree that it is the continuing or unending state. In other words, the action of purfication was a ONCE for all time action. But Christ being the high priest is forever, a continuing state. He intercedes, but the sacrifice for sin was done on the cross, forever! Christ intercedes, but he longer has to make a continuing sacrifice. That is RCC doctrine, and the Greek proves it totally wrong.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So it is plainly stated that the one born of God cannot sin! It does not say continuously sin..it says..sin. We sin in the present tense and therefore it is still sin. The reason people say ..."It really means we do not continually sin " ..is that we have to reconcile the truth in these verses in someway because we do know a believer can sin...we sin in our flesh.

Our inner man cannot sin because it is born of the incorruptible seed of the word of God. We are in our inner man 100% righteous and holy as stated in Ephesians 4:24

It's all about understanding the new creation that we are in Christ!

That is just your perverted interpretation. Many other scriptures prove that cannot be correct. The inner man cannot sin, but you are not just your inner man. You have a body of flesh that can and does subvert the will of the inner man and sins. You are just like the gnostics who made a separation and thought they didn't sin because their spirit was pure.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes!!! Bless the Lord...He loved us so much and wanted to have fellowship with us that He sent Jesus to take away all our sins so that we can finally view God with a renewed mind and see Him as He truly is. We were the ones that were enemies in our own minds because of our sin.

These don't sound like it's man who's having a problem with believers' sins.

But I hold [this] against you: that you have left your first love. Revelation 2:4

But I hold a few [things] against you: that you have there those who hold fast to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat food sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality. Revelation 2:14

But I hold against you that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, the one who calls herself a prophetess, and teaches and deceives my slaves to commit sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. Revelation 2:20​

 

[oldthennew]

head on a platter...

'Greater Love has no man than this, than to lay down his life for his friends.....
and,
God was John's Friend......read the TEXT!!!

 

[Grace777x70]

That is why I said that we do sin in the flesh and we will until we leave this earth.

That is just your perverted interpretation. Many other scriptures prove that cannot be correct. The inner man cannot sin, but you are not just your inner man. You have a body of flesh that can and does subvert the will of the inner man and sins. You are just like the gnostics who made a separation and thought they didn't sin because their spirit was pure.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It comes from the word "to make". The use of the middle suggests that Christ Himself in His own person made the purification. The aorist points to the completed action. Aorist expresses the action which occurred before the main verb, ἐκάθισεν or ekathisen, meaning "to sit down, to take one's seat."

Once again, someone is spouting Greek who does not have the faintest clue how to read or translate the Greek. Translation is not about looking up individual words in the Blue Letter Bible or Strong's, or even worse, quoting some preacher who is twisting the Greek to prove his own doctrines.

Christ is NOT making purification without ceasing. You are thinking of the imperfect tense. Imperfect is an ongoing action in the past. Although there are some other uses of the aorist in Greek, the MAIN use, including Heb 1:3 is a completed action in the past. And the present tense can also infer an on-going action in the present.

I do wish people would learn Greek, esp. the syntax and grammar, including verbs, noun cases, and every Greek student's favourite (NOT!) participles! Then we could have some decent discussions, instead of people passing off a knowledge of Greek, which is in fact totally wrong! [/SIZE][/FONT]
[/FONT][/COLOR]

However, after looking at the Greek for Hebrews 7:24-25, I do agree that it is the continuing or unending state. In other words, the action of purfication was a ONCE for all time action. But Christ being the high priest is forever, a continuing state. He intercedes, but the sacrifice for sin was done on the cross, forever! Christ intercedes, but he longer has to make a continuing sacrifice. That is RCC doctrine, and the Greek proves it totally wrong.

So apparently you think that the aorist must always be rendered as English simple past? I don't think it's that simple, and there are those who disagree with that and think it's unfortunate that Greek's been taught that way.

The sacrifice happened once; it is finished. But his work as a high priest interceding on our behalf with his blood continues. The blood is proof of his death and what brings us mercy and grace at the mercy seat. His blood didn't just disappear mysteriously when he sat down on the throne. If that's a RCC doctrine so be it; at least they got something right.

And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as though slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent into all the earth. Revelation 5:6​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That is why I said that we do sin in the flesh and we will until we leave this earth.

So then your interpretation of 1 John 3:9 is obviously wrong. Those who are born of GOD can (and do) sin. If you still persist that you are right, then you just exposing yourself as a gnostic.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Grace777x70, praise God for the truth you have shared in this thread, and the grace you have shown to those who argue against what they do not understand. Bravo! Welcome to the forum.

 

[oldthennew]

carnal agreement is rampant....but, never-the-less, it does NOT negate the FACT
that the FULNESS of being BORN-AGAIN does not happen until we experience the
RESURRECTION.....

 

[Grace777x70]

The new creation in Christ cannot sin is what I am saying... the inner man. We can and do and will continue to sin in the flesh which is why Paul said that in his flesh dwells no good thing - Romans 7:17-23 talks about the principle of sin in the flesh:

So to boil it down as far as living things out on this earth is:

flesh = bad

Spirit = good

Walk according to the flesh = bad stuff happening

Walk according to the Spirit = good stuff happening

I absolutely love you bringing up the gnostic stuff... I am not a gnostic ..but the fact that you called me a gnostic is so encouraging to me. Thank you!

So then your interpretation of 1 John 3:9 is obviously wrong. Those who are born of GOD can (and do) sin. If you still persist that you are right, then you just exposing yourself as a gnostic.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So apparently you think that the aorist must always be rendered as English simple past? I don't think it's that simple, and there are those who disagree with that and think it's unfortunate that Greek's been taught that way.

The sacrifice happened once; it is finished. But his work as a high priest interceding on our behalf with his blood continues. The blood is proof of his death and what brings us mercy and grace at the mercy seat. His blood didn't just disappear mysteriously when he sat down on the throne. If that's a RCC doctrine so be it; at least they got something right.

And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as though slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent into all the earth. Revelation 5:6​

1 John 1:7 proves that the aorist making in Hebrews 1:3 cannot be translated as simple past (made) because the blood is obviously still active in cleansing of sin.

But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7​

So Christ is making purification (cleansing) of our sins as he is seated at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

 

[Grace777x70]

Thank you! Those are very kind words to say. Hey we all were in the same boat in the past and we have so much to learn about the grace of our Lord Jesus! You know..I never saw grace...until I saw it for what it really is! I started to pray Pau's prayers.

I love the prayers of Paul - Father give onto us a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Jesus...the eyes of our heart having been enlightened

- Father grant us to be strengthened with power through Your Spirit in our inner man, so that Christ would dwell in our hearts by faith..that we would be filled with the knowledge of the love of Christ for us.

-..that we would be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding..so that we will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord...increasing in the knowledge of God.

Let's all pray these kinds of prayers for ourselves and each other!

Grace777x70, praise God for the truth you have shared in this thread, and the grace you have shown to those who argue against what they do not understand. Bravo! Welcome to the forum.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The new creation in Christ cannot sin is what I am saying... the inner man. We can and do and will continue to sin in the flesh which is why Paul said that in his flesh dwells no good thing - Romans 7:17-23 talks about the principle of sin in the flesh:

So to boil it down as far as living things out on this earth is:
flesh = bad
Spirit = good
Walk according to the flesh = bad stuff happening
Walk according to the Spirit = good stuff happening
I absolutely love you bringing up the gnostic stuff... I am not a gnostic ..but the fact that you called me a gnostic is so encouraging to me. Thank you!

There is no schism between the inner and outer man as you're making. It is one man consisting of corrupted flesh (outer man) and a perfected spirit (inner man). Follow the flesh, you will sin; follow the spirit, you won't. But there's no such thing as saying the inner man can't sin because the inner man is not a man; it's spirit. Inner man is just figurative language. Man is body and spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

carnal agreement is rampant....but, never-the-less, it does NOT negate the FACT
that the FULNESS of being BORN-AGAIN does not happen until we experience the
RESURRECTION.....

That's the way I see it.

• Conception = new birth
• Gestation = lifelong sanctification
• Birth = resurrection

 

[james57]

The new creation in Christ cannot sin is what I am saying... the inner man. We can and do and will continue to sin in the flesh which is why Paul said that in his flesh dwells no good thing - Romans 7:17-23 talks about the principle of sin in the flesh:

So to boil it down as far as living things out on this earth is:

flesh = bad

Spirit = good

Walk according to the flesh = bad stuff happening

Walk according to the Spirit = good stuff happening

I absolutely love you bringing up the gnostic stuff... I am not a gnostic ..but the fact that you called me a gnostic is so encouraging to me. Thank you!

He's just warming up, it will be heretic and apostate next!

But dont worry persevere

God bless

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He's just warming up, it will be heretic and apostate next!

But dont worry persevere

God bless

What he's teaching is obviously heresy. What I marvel at is that his doctrine is based on the teaching that John was only addressing gnostics in certain parts of the 1 John epistle (maybe all of it, I don't know), but by so doing, he has ended up doing the same thing the gnostics are accused of doing, e.g., saying we have no sin, etc. It's really quite interesting the way iniquity works, and the way the lord snares the disobedient in their own machinations.