Hyper grace

[Grace777x70]

I remember well the night I knelt down in my bedroom and said " Lord Jesus I believe you died for me and that you rose again. I confess I am a sinner and that you are my Savior now! " It was glorious! I felt His unconditional love for me. This is the first love that He speaks about in Rev 2. Whenever we forget the love the Lord has for us - we are leaving the knowledge of His love for us. It's not that we loved Him first..but that He loves us first before we loved Him.

1 Corinthians 9:25-27 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; [SUP]27 [/SUP]but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Self control? You mean for christian living? To receive a crown that others say we can never lose?

Discipline my body? Force my flesh into literal slavery? I can be disqualified in the race if I don't? Oh, this passage must be symbolic, 'cuz it can't mean that I'll lose my salvation. I have a 100% guarantee 'cuz I made a decision to accept Jesus as my savior without confession & repentance.

That might sound like a stretch, but that's what this doctrine boils down to.

BTW, have ya ever notice that cults use the same words we do & claim to believe the same things we do, but really don't?

 

[Grace777x70]

I am a sheep already! I don't change my "sheepness" because I sin. I don't deny sin. I deny it's right to have dominion over me because I am under grace and not law! The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death!

I am continually in God's presence. I am seated with Christ now at the right hand of the Father. I come boldy to the throne to obtain the grace and mercy I need. He is my loving, good, good Father!

No, it speaks to every man. Denial of sin keeps one from the presence of GOD. Acknowledgment of sin is the doorway into the sheepfold. Sacrifices were confessed over and slain at the doorway to the tabernacle/temple. There is no other way into the sheepfold. The spirit is truth. If we say we have no sin, we are not speaking the truth, and therefore not in the spirit that brings us into GOD's presence. He that has ears, let him hear.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I talk about the law in relation to the core terms of the new covenant
The law itself is not, nor ever was the problem. The problem was the penalty attached to it for breaking it. Without that penalty the law cannot condemn you.
There is nothing wrong at all with thou shalt not kill, steal, lie, commit adultery etc. The law itself is holy, righteous and good. And without the attached penalty the christian has nothing to fear from the law for it is no longer the ministration of death

And when we follow after the holy spirit we never need consider the law on our hearts, for the holy spirit will not lead us into conflict with it
However, when you follow after the flesh, your heart will be troubled for you are going against what has been placed on your heart

We don't have to consider the law of Moses in our hearts because its not there. The holy spirit is the law.

 

[james57]

We don't have to consider the law of Moses in our hearts because its not there. The holy spirit is the law.

I wasn't referring to the mosaic law.

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry written not with ink but by the spirit of God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts 2cor3:3

 

[james57]

We don't have to consider the law of Moses in our hearts because its not there. The holy spirit is the law.

That is not how the bible terms one of the two core components of the new covenant as you know. That is how you personally term it

Do not go beyond what is written 1cor4:6

 

[Grace777x70]

You know..we have already spoken about this in this thread and we keep getting caught in the loop of this. I'll try once more with just one of the scriptures we talked about before.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

He cannot sin!!! impossible and cannot have the same meaning it seems to me. The inner man who is born from God cannot sin. This inner man is the righteousness of God In Christ. He is holy. Has redemption because of Christ1 I cor 1:30



If you want to believe that the one born of God in Christ can sin ( whether once or continuously is irrelevant )..it is your choice!

I for one believe differently so let's just agree to disagree and thank the Lord for His wonderful complete salvation! He is awesome in His love for us!

The verses you refer to pertain to people in corrupted bodies who have been born anew in their spirits from above. Your interpretation that these verses pertain only to their inner man is not of the spirit of GOD. Also, 1 John 5:18 simply says that those born of GOD aren't sinning, not that it is impossible for them to sin. In other words, they are not practicing sin, which is what 1 John 3:9 also refers to.

This is a good example how erroneous doctrines are developed on the basis of one or two misinterpreted verses.

 

[crossnote]

Charles spurgeon believed I john 3:9 relates to the new nature, that nature cannot sin, but the flesh can and does sin.

That was his view

Reference?

 

[james57]

Reference?

I googled spurgeons sermons a few years ago. You can get to a website that has a list of his sermons titled by verses of scripture. Just look for the one concerning 1john 3:9( or a section of verses that cover it, I cant remember now which it was)

 

[crossnote]

I admit to Him and myself that the behavior/sin is wrong and hurtful and it is not who I am in Christ. Sometimes it's hard to put a label on it.

Let's take an example.... Let's say I berate someone because they believe differently then what I do..I'm not sure what the actual name of that sin is ( maybe enmities?..whatever it's called it's a work of the flesh )..I know within myself that it was wrong and I was not walking in love..I would just say to the Lord...that was wrong!..evil..sinful whatever you want to call it. Thank you for the forgiveness of sins that is in Christ for me!

I believe we are already forgiven in Christ for all sins past. present and future. This drives people nuts because they will say - you are using grace as a licence to sin. When I hear that being said it speaks volumes to me that they don't understand the gospel of grace yet.

It takes faith to say you are the righteousness of God in the face of just sinning. Receiving the grace of God allows us to walk in freedom FROM sin.

1 John 1:9 is not the bar of soap for the Christian. Jesus's Blood has already washed our sins and continues to wash our sins because we are in the Light. We are Light in the Lord.

1 John 1:9 was speaking to the gnostics who say " They have no sin". there is now place in the New Covenant where it say the believer has to ask for forgiveness in order to be forgiven.

Forgiveness of sins is a done deal for the New testament believer. There are so many scriptures that speak about this. The only scripture for the continuous confession of sin in the New Covenant is in 1 John 1:9 and as outlined above..it is for the gnostic to confess that they do have sin and need to be cleansed.

I realize this drives people nuts and believe me it did me too as it was a sacred cow to me with my religious upbringing until I studied it out asking the Holy Spirit to reveal it to me. I said this is heresy when I first heard of it!

Briefly the epistle of John is written to believers not gnostics. Anyways, I'll stick with 1Jn 1;9 and I'm not gnostic.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

You know..we have already spoken about this in this thread and we keep getting caught in the loop of this. I'll try once more with just one of the scriptures we talked about before.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

He cannot sin!!! impossible and cannot have the same meaning it seems to me. The inner man who is born from God cannot sin. This inner man is the righteousness of God In Christ. He is holy. Has redemption because of Christ1 I cor 1:30



If you want to believe that the one born of God in Christ can sin ( whether once or continuously is irrelevant )..it is your choice!

I for one believe differently so let's just agree to disagree and thank the Lord for His wonderful complete salvation! He is awesome in His love for us!

Odd understanding there. Since we do not have glorified bodies yet and are still in bodies of flesh we cannot be perfect or sinless. Sinless perfection is a doctrine that does not stand up against scripture.

1 John 1:8-10 NKJV
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

So either John is double minded and made a mistake, or there is something deeper going on here. These scriptures are from the same book. Or perhaps the deeper understanding looks at the spiritual battle between the Spirit in us and the flesh nature we have due to our not yet glorified bodies. When we walk according to the Spirit, we no longer walk according to the flesh. When we walk according to the flesh, we are no longer walking according to the Spirit. This involves our discernment, hearing what the Spirit is saying to us, and obeying/doing His will. To say that born again believers can never sin contradicts scripture. After the race of faith we are in (Sanctification process) the end result is our glorification. Until then, we do need to deal with sin in our lives and if found, repent.

 

[Grace777x70]

I found an interesting quote for Spurgeon fans that describes his believe in what "repentance" is..he says it means to change your mind. He must have looked into the future and see all those hyper-grace people like Joseph Prince have to say about repentance. I'm just teasin' ya!..lol

I googled spurgeons sermons a few years ago. You can get to a website that has a list of his sermons titled by verses of scripture. Just look for the one concerning 1john 3:9( or a section of verses that cover it, I cant remember now which it was)

 

[Grace777x70]

good for you! Happy is the man that doesn't condemn himself with what he believes.

Briefly the epistle of John is written to believers not gnostics. Anyways, I'll stick with 1Jn 1;9 and I'm not gnostic.

 

[james57]

I found an interesting quote for Spurgeon fans that describes his believe in what "repentance" is..he says it means to change your mind. He must have looked into the future and see all those hyper-grace people like Joseph Prince have to say about repentance. I'm just teasin' ya!..lol

I'm sure that was taken from
All of grace

A brilliant book!

 

[Grace777x70]

We deal with sin as believers when we believe in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. We believe His grace that we are under means that sin shall NOT have dominion over us - Rom 6:14

I believe that God is not an evangelical obsessed with a sin-consciousness. He is Christ-conscious. He is 100% obsessed with Christ..in His Son and what He did for us! Sin is not an issue anymore. It has been dealt with by the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ!!

Odd understanding there. Since we do not have glorified bodies yet and are still in bodies of flesh we cannot be perfect or sinless. Sinless perfection is a doctrine that does not stand up against scripture.

1 John 1:8-10 NKJV
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

So either John is double minded and made a mistake, or there is something deeper going on here. These scriptures are from the same book. Or perhaps the deeper understanding looks at the spiritual battle between the Spirit in us and the flesh nature we have due to our not yet glorified bodies. When we walk according to the Spirit, we no longer walk according to the flesh. When we walk according to the flesh, we are no longer walking according to the Spirit. This involves our discernment, hearing what the Spirit is saying to us, and obeying/doing His will. To say that born again believers can never sin contradicts scripture. After the race of faith we are in (Sanctification process) the end result is our glorification. Until then, we do need to deal with sin in our lives and if found, repent.

 

[Grace777x70]

I found it on this website “All of Grace” by Charles Spurgeon – Escape to Reality

it is the All of Grace book..good catch james!

I'm sure that was taken from
All of grace

A brilliant book!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You know..we have already spoken about this in this thread and we keep getting caught in the loop of this. I'll try once more with just one of the scriptures we talked about before.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

He cannot sin!!! impossible and cannot have the same meaning it seems to me. The inner man who is born from God cannot sin. This inner man is the righteousness of God In Christ. He is holy. Has redemption because of Christ1 I cor 1:30

If you want to believe that the one born of God in Christ can sin ( whether once or continuously is irrelevant )..it is your choice!

I for one believe differently so let's just agree to disagree and thank the Lord for His wonderful complete salvation! He is awesome in His love for us!

I'm surprised with your willingness to look at the Greek, that you are not more careful with this interpretation. That verse simply states that those born of GOD are not doing sin, and they aren't able to be sinning (not that it is impossible for them to sin) because the spirit (seed) in them won't allow it.

Everyone born of God is not doing sin, for his seed remains in him and he is not able to be sinning, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9​

But let's take it a step further and provide the context of the next verse that clearly shows that those who are born of GOD practice righteousness, and those of the devil don't.

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, neither is the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​

The corollary to this is that those who do practice righteousness (those not doing sin in verse 9) are born of GOD.

So you have taken this sensible interpretation and turned it on its head to mean that it is impossible for those who are born of GOD to sin, simply due to a careless reading of what is written. This is how false doctrines are born.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I wasn't referring to the mosaic law.

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry written not with ink but by the spirit of God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts 2cor3:3

Well FWIW, I do believe that every time Paul mentioned the law, he was referring to the law of Moses. So when you continually refer to the law, that is how I read it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That is not how the bible terms one of the two core components of the new covenant as you know. That is how you personally term it

Do not go beyond what is written 1cor4:6

Trust me. I have the authority in Christ to tell you that the holy spirit is the law.

 

[crossnote]

We deal with sin as believers when we believe in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. We believe His grace that we are under means that sin shall NOT have dominion over us - Rom 6:14

I believe that God is not an evangelical obsessed with a sin-consciousness. He is Christ-conscious. He is 100% obsessed with Christ..in His Son and what He did for us! Sin is not an issue anymore. It has been dealt with by the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ!!

Sin is not an issue anymore?
So we now live in glory unhampered by our old nature? Gotcha

Again...

Galatians 5:17 KJVS
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

I'll remember, it's just smooth sailing from here on.

 

[james57]

Well FWIW, I do believe that every time Paul mentioned the law, he was referring to the law of Moses. So when you continually refer to the law, that is how I read it.

When Paul speaks of not being under the law he is referring to a law of righteousness.
You have just written that a careless reading of scripture brings wrong doctrines. You are also insistent on looking to the Greek so you hinge everything on what you consider the exact letter. Yet now you are plainly ignoring the exact letter of what is written and being careless with scripture.
As you say, that leads to wrong doctrines.
You admitted a while ago you believed the heart of the law remained, the legalistic law had gone. You told me you saw that the way I do