Hyper grace

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

ladylynn

Guest
Quick magic fixes generally don't happen. A person might be suddenly set free from a vice when they come to faith in Jesus but usually it comes through growth in the Lord which means being tested in the ovens of trials and afflictions.
Our culture is a sucker for an easy fix, and ones like Prince offers that easy fix.


Speaking as a spirit filled believer who embraces the grace message I have not had 'magic easy fixes' nor have I heard J.P. ever endorse the type of stuff you come up with like for instance....'easy fixes'.

It is about walking these things learned out in faith. Pressing on and believing regardless of what the outward circumstances are. There is nothing easy fix about that. And Christians who are walking by faith are not suckers nor are we seeking easy fixes. What we are seeking is to follow Jesus. And the great thing about following Jesus is He makes all our efforts worth while. Amen!!
 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
Quick magic fixes generally don't happen. A person might be suddenly set free from a vice when they come to faith in Jesus but usually it comes through growth in the Lord which means being tested in the ovens of trials and afflictions. .
I imagine you believe what you referred to as quick magic fixes includes smoking and porn addiction as they were the two specific things I mentioned in the post you initially responded to

People who rely totally on God will see quicker results than those who do not, for as a famous evangelist once said.

The flesh can only get in the way of God working.
 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
Quick magic fixes generally don't happen. A person might be suddenly set free from a vice when they come to faith in Jesus but usually it comes through growth in the Lord which means being tested in the ovens of trials and afflictions.
Our culture is a sucker for an easy fix, and ones like Prince offers that easy fix.
Would you give me your opinion of the following?


Dont you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves you are slaves to the one whom you obey- whether you are SLAVES TO SIN WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, or to obedience which leads to righteousness rom 6:16

We know that the law is spiritual but I am unspiritual, SOLD AS A SLAVE TO SIN.... Rom7:14
 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
If I asked a professional poker player to have a game of poker with me for a ten pence
stake, he might oblige, but there wouldn’t be any excitement in the game for him, would there? The stake is too small. If the following week he was playing a game in Las Vegas and there was a million dollars on the table, however, he’d be greatly excited then, wouldn’t he? The stakes would have his heart pounding I am sure. It is not possible to do anything that involves high stakes without great excitement surging through the individual’s body, is it?
Many take up sports that have an element of risk or danger in them so they may experience the thrill in doing so. Some jump off bridges from great heights, with ropes securely fastened to their bodies at one end, and to the bridge at the other, with enough slack to send them hurtling hundreds of feet toward the ground below. When the slack is exhausted, they come to a juddering halt, and dangle in the air for a short time, exhilarated by the thrill of the event. So it is fair to say the higher the risk involved in an activity, the greater the excitement it causes in the individual. The higher the stake a person plays for, the more the adrenalin flows.
There is one thing that dwarfs all others when it comes to battling for high stakes and taking the greatest risks, however, and that is when you believe eternal life is at stake. After all, what higher stake could a person play for than eternal life, and what activity could carry more risk than one that could send you to hell? People of faith know more than anyone of excitement being stirred in them, for they are playing for the highest stakes of all − and it isn’t a game! So what does the excitement focus on during this highest of all stakes battle? It must focus on what decides the outcome of it, for therein lies the risk and danger.
Now suppose a young man in his late teens goes to a church service one night and becomes a Christian. He believes God has wiped the slate clean because He has forgiven any sin in his life and is, therefore, spotless in God’s sight because Jesus died for his sins. This young man comes from a loving, secure home. He has hardly drunk, he has never smoked or used bad language, and he has not as yet had a serious girlfriend. Such a person you may think is off to a flying start as a Christian because he doesn’t have what people often consider the “taboo” sins that must cease in order for a person to attain Heaven.
So he sets out on the Christian walk. He is convicted to live his life as a Christian must, for the law has been put on his heart, and he is determined to follow his heart’s desire. The next day he goes out with some friends. They stop in a cafe for something to eat and a scantily clad and attractive young lady walks in. Excitement is stirred in him as she stands close by. The young man immediately has a conscience at his thoughts. Though he previously found women extremely attractive and had improper thoughts concerning them, for the first time, his conscience hurts him. He mustn’t have those kind of thoughts now that he is a Christian.
The following week, he is out again with friends and sees a provocative-looking woman walking down the road. This time the excitement stirred in him is even greater. The improper thoughts, therefore, are much worse than they were on the previous occasion. He dwells on them a little longer than he did the last time. This makes him feel far worse than he did previously. If he wants to be a Christian, those thoughts have to stop.
A few days later he is watching television. A show comes on that he has seen many times before. He is very troubled. Week after week he has seen the woman who hosts the programme and hardly given her a second glance, but now he is looking at her in a different way, one that stirs up a hornet’s nest in his mind.
Over the next few weeks the excitement grows when he thinks of or comes into contact with women. The resulting impure thoughts gradually worsen. He is very concerned. When he first became a Christian he used to ask God once a week to forgive him of any imperfections in his life, but now he asks every other day. At first he had no doubt God immediately forgave him, but now that the sin is getting worse, he is not so confident. How can he be a Christian and have the thoughts he is having?
The excitement women stir in him mounts, it becomes relentless. The impure thoughts magnify tenfold. He finds himself now daily pleading with God to forgive him for the wrong in his mind. He tries his hardest to resist such thoughts, but the harder he tries the worse they get. It is like trying to cut through a swarm of bees with a sword; his efforts come to nothing. He stops socialising with other young people at the church because they wouldn’t want to know him if they understood the real him beneath the skin.
Eventually he finds the excitement that women stir in him is out of control. He goes to church less frequently and spends far less time praying and reading his Bible. He is discouraged, wearied by his failed efforts to resist.
The final straw comes when he hires out a pornographic film. He can’t be a Christian. He tried his hardest, but failed. In the few months since he got saved, he just ended up a worse sinner. The weird thing is before he became a Christian he looked at women and coveted them at times, but thoughts such as the ones he is having now had never consumed his mind. He walks away depressed, convinced he will end up in hell. Even though he is sure God exists and Jesus died on the cross to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, he couldn’t be good enough for God. He was too weak and ill disciplined.
Now this young man became a Christian. He was immediately sin conscious we can say. Before God placed the law on the young man’s heart and wrote it on his mind, he committed sin, for improper thoughts and lust break the law of God, but before he became a Christian, he would not have recognised his improper thoughts as sinful. For as we previously saw, it is only when we are conscious of God’s laws that we become conscious of our sin because when we see our shortfall in obedience to those laws, the light is turned on. So the young man earnestly desired the sin to cease, for he had been born again, but his sinful nature, which is basic to all and has been around since the time of Adam, didn’t want to stop sinning. It cannot, friend, for by its definition, it is a nature that desires to break the law of God.
Now why did such fear and excitement overcome the young man where lust was concerned? Because he believed the outcome of this highest-of-all-stakes battle hinged on ceasing his sin, in this case his improper thoughts. He was fully convinced this was the truth. The risk (or danger) of hell centred on that one thing. Now, friend, you simply cannot be in a battle for the highest of all stakes, with, therefore, the greatest of risks attached to it without huge excitement being stirred up in you. That is human nature, and that excitement will inevitably focus on what decides the outcome of the battle. Whenever impure thoughts came to the young man, therefore, great excitement overcame him at the same time. What must be the result? The sinful nature had a field day; he became swamped by lust and believed he was condemned.
You see, friend, there is no faith in fear, and there is no victory unless the truth of the Gospel is followed. If that young man had looked to Jesus and trusted that He died for his sins when improper thoughts came over him, those thoughts would have never posed any great risk or danger, would they? Huge excitement would, therefore, have never overcome him where lust (or coveting) was concerned. There would have been no high stakes battle concerning lust. The problem is the young man did not stand on a justification of faith in Christ, but one of works of the law (ceasing lust), for lust is breaking the law of God. Let us not forget, as well, had the young man looked to Jesus and trusted that He atoned for his sins, rather than trying to be justified before God by works of the law, he could not, and would not have used that as a licence to sin, for he desperately wanted to be free of the sin in his heart. That would not change if he had looked to Christ and stood by faith in Him. He would still have hated the sin and wanted to be free of it, but he would not have let the sin condemn him.
Now we can say the young man would have felt alive before the law came to him because there was no condemnation then, but once it did come, sin (consciousness) sprang to life in him and he died spiritually. The commandment he believed would give him life if he obeyed it, instead brought death (condemnation), for he could not keep it. Sin, through the commandment, slew him, and yet he knew the law itself was holy, just, and good. He (his sin) was the problem, not the good and holy laws of God.
Now, friend, listen to the words of Paul in Romans 7:9-13. He is speaking of a time the law came to him when he came of age to make a commitment to God. This would have been before his conversion to Christianity, therefore:

Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin (consciousness) sprang to life and I died. [SUP] [/SUP]I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. [SUP] [/SUP]For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. [SUP] [/SUP]So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
[SUP] [/SUP]Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. (NIV)

 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
This is where the truth of "there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"...comes to our help...as we are growing in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus ( Notice it's never growing in the knowledge of sin )....when the trials of life and failures we have done are screaming at us - we need to fix our eyes on Jesus and His finished work for us.

The difference between the legalistic ( law-keeping ) mindset and the grace-based mindset I believe is the core of this discussion. Both mindsets believe what the fruit looks like as we are under the grace of God. The difference is how the fruit is produced in our lives. The legalistic mindset says " Stop sinning". The grace-based mindset says " Receive the grace of God and sin will not have dominion over you."

The legalistic law-based mindset says " Stop sinning and we will not condemn you. " Jesus says " I do not condemn you, now go and sin no more. " This acceptance grace of no condemnation gives life to us so that we do not have to continue in sin.

When we believe the gospel of grace it imparts the life of Christ inside of us to produce fruit. The legalistic mindset says "you do this" whereas the grace-based mindset says "Christ did it for you already". The legalistic mindset says " Be holy!" and you will be holy ( which is works based ). Grace-based mindset says " Be holy" because Christ has already made you holy. It is a matter of "being" who we already are in Christ. As we "see" who Jesus is - we become like Him in our outer behavior as 2 Cor. 3:18 states.

It is obvious that you have never heard what Joseph Prince says about how to overcome sin in the Christians life.


Quick magic fixes generally don't happen. A person might be suddenly set free from a vice when they come to faith in Jesus but usually it comes through growth in the Lord which means being tested in the ovens of trials and afflictions.
Our culture is a sucker for an easy fix, and ones like Prince offers that easy fix.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
of course both people are blessed by God.


Nobody said the $10 blessing was not blessed from God...you are "reading" that into it.

I was merely pointing out that $10,000 has a great effect on helping people in this world then $10.


Being wealthy incudes all good things including money to give to others...
And saying so makes the person who has 10,000 more worthy, Whether you admit it or not.

I am telling you what it sounds like to the normal person.

It is wrong, and it is evil..

your dowing the person who was only given 10.

No one needs to be told 10,000 is more usefull. EVERYONE KNOWS IT. so why puff that person up?

Your making no sense, and actually appear to be speaking against yourself.

 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
The difference between the legalistic ( law-keeping ) mindset and the grace-based mindset
Let me introduce an emotional mindset. Imagine you could at one point in time see the consequences of sin, not just a set of rules, or ideas, but the price it costs in peoples lives.

You see a person. You see their struggles, their victories and their failures. You can see how you can encourage them and how you could send them off the rails. Which do you choose to do?

If everywhere you walked you could see and feel like this, your heart would leap for joy at the blessing you can bring and get sad and upset at the sin and trouble in someones life, and your own. This would change who you are, how you relate, what you share and why.

What is being talked about here is just one dimension. The focus has never been on sins, it is merely the tip of the iceburg of life and experience. It shows a wrong approach, a set of emotions, aspirations, hopes, dreams, insights, strengths, weaknesses that belong to this world and not heaven. We are "Holy" if we dwell in the place of Gods heart, His desire for people, us, eternity. We have been given access through the cross, but it needs to become us day and night.

You guys are talking as if this is an either this or that, but you are not touching Jesus and His ways. An action can be "wrong" from thousands of points of view, but just knowing something is wrong does not show you what is right.

Peter failed Jesus because though he loved Jesus he did not see the flow of issues, what was at stake, what is the barrier between people entering heaven, what it means to have ones heart opened up to love.

It is this vision that makes us become overcomers of sin, because sin is no longer the issue, the issue is to walk in life and not death.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
James - Well said!

This self -performance-based mindset in the Christian world is a horrible religion. Living with sin controlling them because of what they were religiously taught and pawned off as " following Jesus ". Living the Christian life is impossible from our will-power and flesh. Every week we are told to stop the sinning...coming to confess all their sins when they are whipped from the pulpit.."come to the altar and get right with God"..so they come and cry about how horrible they have been and promise to do better. It's all about them! This is a horrible religion and has no basis in the finished work of our Lord! It does have the "appearance" of godliness but it denies the power of Christ to operate in our lives by faith in Him alone!

2 Timothy 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP] [/SUP] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


The performance-based religion is the very one denying our Lord. Grace-based believing says what God says we are now because of the marvelous, finished work of our Lord Jesus.

We began our life in Jesus by hearing the gospel of grace and believing it and we will be perfected in our walk by continuing to hear the gospel of Christ.
Galatians 3:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 5:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Romans 1:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Quick magic fixes generally don't happen. A person might be suddenly set free from a vice when they come to faith in Jesus but usually it comes through growth in the Lord which means being tested in the ovens of trials and afflictions.
Our culture is a sucker for an easy fix, and ones like Prince offers that easy fix.

The amount of times I have seen people walk away from God, because instead of people in the church helping them with a besetting sin they need help with, they were told, your not trusting God, if you were, you would not be struggling with this sin, Have more faith, and he will heal you..

another type of legalism.. You sin because your not trusting,
 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
This is where the truth of "there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"...comes to our help...as we are growing in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus ( Notice it's never growing in the knowledge of sin )....when the trials of life and failures we have done are screaming at us - we need to fix our eyes on Jesus and His finished work for us.

The difference between the legalistic ( law-keeping ) mindset and the grace-based mindset I believe is the core of this discussion. Both mindsets believe what the fruit looks like as we are under the grace of God. The difference is how the fruit is produced in our lives. The legalistic mindset says " Stop sinning". The grace-based mindset says " Receive the grace of God and sin will not have dominion over you."

The legalistic law-based mindset says " Stop sinning and we will not condemn you. " Jesus says " I do not condemn you, now go and sin no more. " This acceptance grace of no condemnation gives life to us so that we do not have to continue in sin.

When we believe the gospel of grace it imparts the life of Christ inside of us to produce fruit. The legalistic mindset says "you do this" whereas the grace-based mindset says "Christ did it for you already". The legalistic mindset says " Be holy!" and you will be holy ( which is works based ). Grace-based mindset says " Be holy" because Christ has already made you holy. It is a matter of "being" who we already are in Christ. As we "see" who Jesus is - we become like Him in our outer behavior as 2 Cor. 3:18 states.

It is obvious that you have never heard what Joseph Prince says about how to overcome sin in the Christians life.
Jesus said, if you do not come as little children you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven. We are also called to loved God. Therefore if anyone who comes as a child and loves God believes:

The legalistic mindset says " Stop sinning". The grace-based mindset says " Receive the grace of God and sin will not have dominion over you
."

They could never use such knowledge as a licence to sin, nor as an excuse to sit back and do nothing. Rather they would rejoice in the truth of the Gospel they are convicted of that will give them their hearts desire-to be ever more obedient/sin not being their master.
But those who refuse to come as children, those who have firstly a ''theological'' mind set of Christianity will likely attack what you wrote, for it makes no sense to the rational mind of man
God Bless
 
Last edited:
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0

The amount of times I have seen people walk away from God, because instead of people in the church helping them with a besetting sin they need help with, they were told, your not trusting God, if you were, you would not be struggling with this sin, Have more faith, and he will heal you..

another type of legalism.. You sin because your not trusting,
This was the conversation that resulted in crossnotes post you are responding to:

I said
Just following biblical truth as to the route sin shall not be your master
However it is not understood through theological reasoning, but spiritual understanding by the holy spirit
There is great power in the cross of christ, if the truth of the message is understood

Originally Posted by crossnote

Neither is it understood through the Scriptures.




Originally Posted by james57

What isn't understood through the scriptures by the holy spirits enlightenment?

That sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace?

Do you deny there is great power in the cross of Christ to change people?

Is it so hard to believe people can be set free from porn addiction, smoking etc if they follow the truth of the message of the person who wrote half the books of the NT?





Quick magic fixes generally don't happen. A person might be suddenly set free from a vice when they come to faith in Jesus but usually it comes through growth in the Lord which means being tested in the ovens of trials and afflictions.
Our culture is a sucker for an easy fix, and ones like Prince offers that easy fix.

As you can see, there is nothing in what I wrote that suggests people would not be struggling with sin if they had more faith./ I agree with you, I find that off putting.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
No..of course the person who has $10,000 to give is not " More Worthy"....that is complete nonsense.

We should be thankful for all that the Lord gives us to be a blessing to people.


Worthiness has nothing to do with it!

The good Samaritan had the money to help out the one that was beaten down. For someone that didn't have the money to help the guy that was beaten...to view the Samaritan as thinking he is "more worthy" then the person who doesn't have the money to help out..is...well serious lacking in content or truth.

People that "lower themselves" in their own minds because someone has more to give...are seriously mis-representing who they really are in Christ.

I will say it again...this poverty and sickness mentality is a gross lack of knowledge in the nature of our loving heavenly Father's heart. This mindset is going to have a complete fit when they see all the "evil" of the health and abundance that there is in heaven.

"Your kingdom come..You will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

Psalm 103:1-6 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Bless the LORD, O my soul, And all that is within me, bless His holy name.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Bless the LORD, O my soul, And forget none of His benefits;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who redeems your life from the pit, Who crowns you with lovingkindness and compassion;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who satisfies your years with good things, So that your youth is renewed like the eagle.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The LORD performs righteous deeds And judgments for all who are oppressed.
All of us can choose the blessings of the Lord or refuse them.



And saying so makes the person who has 10,000 more worthy, Whether you admit it or not.

I am telling you what it sounds like to the normal person.

It is wrong, and it is evil..

your dowing the person who was only given 10.

No one needs to be told 10,000 is more usefull. EVERYONE KNOWS IT. so why puff that person up?

Your making no sense, and actually appear to be speaking against yourself.

 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
Why is it, that some who were never taught the truth of grace walk away from the faith, believing they could not be good enough for God, while others remain and put on an act each week in church they know they cannot live up to beneath the skin?
Why do people who may well have been brought up in the same church react so differently to wrong teaching/legalism?
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
I agree that sin is destructive and deadly and does destroy people. God's heart is broken when He sees those He loves so deeply affected by sin's effects.

I liken the wrath of God towards sin ..to something akin to : A mother running out and killing the hornets that are stinging her beloved son as he is sitting there on the lawn.

I pray that I see the world through the eyes of our Lord!

I agree us Christians are focused on the things of this world..the philosophy of it..the traditions of men with our religious minds..etc. we need to be Christ-centered ( I almost said Christ-conscious again..)

Grace-based believing would say that ; We are not "Holy" IF ( as if it is up to us to do this ) we dwell in the place of God's heart..etc. We would say that because we are in Christ - we are "Holy" now in Him and that holiness has nothing to do with what we do or don't do. The "fruit" of acknowledging that Christ has already made us "Holy" will manifest in us dwelling in the place of Gods heart, His desire for people, us, eternity.

We would say that "holiness" is not something that is "done by us" but it is something that we "already are in Christ".

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.


I 100% agree with what the fruit of holiness looks like as you so beautifully described! well done my brother!! Lord give us Your eyes to see those who You deeply love!

Let me introduce an emotional mindset. Imagine you could at one point in time see the consequences of sin, not just a set of rules, or ideas, but the price it costs in peoples lives.

You see a person. You see their struggles, their victories and their failures. You can see how you can encourage them and how you could send them off the rails. Which do you choose to do?

If everywhere you walked you could see and feel like this, your heart would leap for joy at the blessing you can bring and get sad and upset at the sin and trouble in someones life, and your own. This would change who you are, how you relate, what you share and why.

What is being talked about here is just one dimension. The focus has never been on sins, it is merely the tip of the iceburg of life and experience. It shows a wrong approach, a set of emotions, aspirations, hopes, dreams, insights, strengths, weaknesses that belong to this world and not heaven. We are "Holy" if we dwell in the place of Gods heart, His desire for people, us, eternity. We have been given access through the cross, but it needs to become us day and night.

You guys are talking as if this is an either this or that, but you are not touching Jesus and His ways. An action can be "wrong" from thousands of points of view, but just knowing something is wrong does not show you what is right.

Peter failed Jesus because though he loved Jesus he did not see the flow of issues, what was at stake, what is the barrier between people entering heaven, what it means to have ones heart opened up to love.

It is this vision that makes us become overcomers of sin, because sin is no longer the issue, the issue is to walk in life and not death.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
Wow! That is a horrible experience that you described. Grace-based believing would never say such things to people hurting like that.

That is definitely a form of legalism as you said.

Look at a leper in Jesus' day...the law say " do not touch the unclean leper"

Legalistic mindset + "do not go near a leper as he is unclean"

grace-based mindset ( that is exhibiting the love of God ) = Jesus reaches out and "touches" the leper and heals him..imagine how that leper felt to have someone "touch" him.

See the beauty and loveliness of our Lord? We have a great God...a good, good , loving Father!

Grace-based believing allows the grace and love of God to be manifested to those hurting.



The amount of times I have seen people walk away from God, because instead of people in the church helping them with a besetting sin they need help with, they were told, your not trusting God, if you were, you would not be struggling with this sin, Have more faith, and he will heal you..

another type of legalism.. You sin because your not trusting,
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
I think too PeterJens that the legalistic mindset needs to be "brought to the Light".....it needs to be exposed for what it is...so that we do not have the hindrances that can keep us from seeing the grace and beauty of Christ and what He has done for us!

It's the legalistic mindset that we are against and not the people themselves!..very important distinction to keep in our minds.

Jesus did it constantly when confronting the Pharisees and their teachings which revealed in the hardness of their hearts which never showed the love of God for people. They grossly mis-represented God and His true nature. This angered our Lord!

This believing in the grace of Christ's finished work on our behalf frees the love of God that is in us to pour forth to those who are hurting and truly see the world through the eyes of our Father.

Let me introduce an emotional mindset. Imagine you could at one point in time see the consequences of sin, not just a set of rules, or ideas, but the price it costs in peoples lives.

You see a person. You see their struggles, their victories and their failures. You can see how you can encourage them and how you could send them off the rails. Which do you choose to do?

If everywhere you walked you could see and feel like this, your heart would leap for joy at the blessing you can bring and get sad and upset at the sin and trouble in someones life, and your own. This would change who you are, how you relate, what you share and why.

What is being talked about here is just one dimension. The focus has never been on sins, it is merely the tip of the iceburg of life and experience. It shows a wrong approach, a set of emotions, aspirations, hopes, dreams, insights, strengths, weaknesses that belong to this world and not heaven. We are "Holy" if we dwell in the place of Gods heart, His desire for people, us, eternity. We have been given access through the cross, but it needs to become us day and night.

You guys are talking as if this is an either this or that, but you are not touching Jesus and His ways. An action can be "wrong" from thousands of points of view, but just knowing something is wrong does not show you what is right.

Peter failed Jesus because though he loved Jesus he did not see the flow of issues, what was at stake, what is the barrier between people entering heaven, what it means to have ones heart opened up to love.

It is this vision that makes us become overcomers of sin, because sin is no longer the issue, the issue is to walk in life and not death.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Wow! That is a horrible experience that you described. Grace-based believing would never say such things to people hurting like that.
Yet I heard two people say it in here today. talking about porn addiction and other stuff..

That is definitely a form of legalism as you said.

Look at a leper in Jesus' day...the law say " do not touch the unclean leper"

Legalistic mindset + "do not go near a leper as he is unclean"

grace-based mindset ( that is exhibiting the love of God ) = Jesus reaches out and "touches" the leper and heals him..imagine how that leper felt to have someone "touch" him.

See the beauty and loveliness of our Lord? We have a great God...a good, good , loving Father!

Grace-based believing allows the grace and love of God to be manifested to those hurting.
oh I believe it, I have witnessed it, and it is amazing, and seeingn people truly get healed after so long a struggle. is amazing.

Sadlly, I witnessed the legalism too. Where people I know love God, and are brothers, are caught in a web, and shove other people away, because they still struggle with certain sins.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
Our hearts jump for joy as we see how the love and grace of our Lord embraces those that are hurting.

The difference between the legalistic mindset and being grace-based is clearly seen today in the way we view those precious people that are held in the bondage of homosexuality.

Listen to what is said and you'll see both mindsets in action!

oh I believe it, I have witnessed it, and it is amazing, and seeingn people truly get healed after so long a struggle. is amazing.

Sadlly, I witnessed the legalism too. Where people I know love God, and are brothers, are caught in a web, and shove other people away, because they still struggle with certain sins.
 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
Yet I heard two people say it in here today. talking about porn addiction and other stuff..



oh I believe it, I have witnessed it, and it is amazing, and seeingn people truly get healed after so long a struggle. is amazing.

Sadlly, I witnessed the legalism too. Where people I know love God, and are brothers, are caught in a web, and shove other people away, because they still struggle with certain sins.

As you know, I commented that in a book I read people were healed of porn addiction, smoking etc. But i did NOT say other were not healed because of a lack of faith, but rather those who were healed of those things were healed because they followed the truth of grace.
Hope people are going to quote truthfully concerning what they read
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,727
3,661
113

Speaking as a spirit filled believer who embraces the grace message I have not had 'magic easy fixes' nor have I heard J.P. ever endorse the type of stuff you come up with like for instance....'easy fixes'.

It is about walking these things learned out in faith. Pressing on and believing regardless of what the outward circumstances are. There is nothing easy fix about that. And Christians who are walking by faith are not suckers nor are we seeking easy fixes. What we are seeking is to follow Jesus. And the great thing about following Jesus is He makes all our efforts worth while. Amen!!
the easy fix I was referring to and many spout here is "just know who you are in Christ". Although very true, there is much more to our walk in Christ.