the rapture

[DP]

Not what I am saying.

I am saying he does come as s thief as do you
We are not disagreeing.

Where you miss it is cramming the thief description into an army and general that takes nothing and has nothing concerning a thief about his return with his saints.

By leaving out the gathering of the bride,you resort to these wild interpretations.

You completely missed the tactics I am illustrating.

YOU GUYS ATTEMPT TO BELITTLE us with "secret rapture"

Now we see your camp has another quandry in that to place "thief" on a billion horse army with a general so bright he's destroys humanoids is ,I'm fact,a hilarious,IMPOSSIBILITY.

who would in their right mind,belittle a concept that ascribes "secret" to a thief?

Thus you guys continue to paint yourself into corners.

You miss such a simple matter regarding our Lord Jesus' subject about the watchman. If we were to be raptured prior to His return to deal with the wicked, and we are part of that army returning with Him, then that destroys completely His metaphor about us watching so as to not allow the thief to break in at midnight. Don't you understand that means we have to be right here on earth to fulfill that watch when He comes?

Another thing is, Apostles Paul and Peter made it very clear that the "day of the Lord" events of the elements burning up occur "as a thief in the night" which is the time of our Lord Jesus' coming that He commanded us to be on watch for (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10). That means we have... to be here on earth to do that watch. But your pre-trib rapture doctors are telling you to watch for His coming PRIOR to that "day of the Lord". When the "day of the Lord" events occur, the reign of the wicked on this earth is over per God's Word.

 

[PlainWord]

It's not about the sons of Ishmael specifically. It's about those who refuse Christ Jesus that do iniquity. That's who the bondwoman really represents. Read the last few verses of Isaiah 19. God said Egypt and Assyria and Israel will each be one third in His future Kingdom, and there will be a highway stretching through them, connecting them.

Just as many orthodox Jews will convert to Christ Jesus during His future "thousand years" reign, many of the peoples of Ishmael will also when our Lord Jesus returns to take rule over all peoples.

So in the essence of the parable of the tares of the field, Ishmael has tares among them too causing them to be deceived, just as the orthodox Jews do also, and just as we do too among the Christian West, and that's how the majority will be deceived by the coming Antichrist.

IMHO it is exactly about the sons of Ishmael that the Tares represent. If you go back to when Israel first entered the promised land they were instructed to kill everyone there, all men, woman and children and livestock. They were to leave none alive. They did it on a couple of occasions then they started sparing the women and children and started taking the women as wives and saving the best of the livestock. Then they started serving the idols of those in the Land. Because of this God said:

Numbers 33:55

But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it shall be that those whom you let remain shall be irritants in your eyes and thorns in your sides, and they shall harass you in the land where you dwell.

Joshua 23:13
know for certain that the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations from before you. But they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land which the Lord your God has given you.

Israel has been dealing with this mistake for over 4,000 years. This prophesy, if you will, is one of the most accurate and obviously fulfilled of any. Even today, Israel tries to make peace with those who live among them but there will never be peace with them. They have to all be removed and or killed which will happen when Christ returns.

A tare and a wheat growing in Israel look identical. Even a very experienced farmer has a hard time telling them apart until close to harvest. Paul discusses this in Gal 4 and I believe Jesus is talking about this in Mat 13. So much of the Bible is devoted to Israel and those which impact her, from the OT to the NT. Nothing has changed. The Muslims and Jews living in Israel look identical. You cannot tell them apart if you are a visitor unless you know where you are or they are dressed a certain way.

Yes, I have heard many a pastor preach that the tares represent false Christians and that the kingdom is spiritual. A good case can be made for this view. However, if you recognize that the tares are called the sons of the wicked one (the devil), and compare that to Gal 4 which is clearly discussing ethnic Muslims and Mat 24:40 where two men are in the field, one taken and one left, you see that it is really dealing with the Muslims being in Israel issue. Obviously Christ will not be ruling from Jerusalem with Idol worshiping Muslims living among the Saints. They have to go and each one will absolutely be killed.

 

[PlainWord]

Still, you're too focused on radical Islam just because of the battles going on today. Those things will end when the Antichrist shows up. That's what our Lord Jesus showed when He said there will be wars and rumours of wars, but the end is not yet, meaning the very end is going to be a time opposite of war, and instead of world peace, the end of all wars, i.e., the "Peace and safety" of Apostle Paul.

The coming Antichrist, or actually pseudo-Christ per the Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture, is coming to power in Jerusalem, not Mecca. Jerusalem is where the center of control will be by Satan's host for the tribulation. That's the area God said He will dwell forever, and that's why Lucifer wants it for his own. You may not see that possibility yet today, but wait for it. It will be fulfilled like God's Word reveals. This is why God is sending His two witnesses to Jerusalem to prophesy against the beast, and not to Mecca.

Some Islamic clerics have already said that the Jewish state is valid, as they had those lands before, and they have already agreed the Jews have right to build a temple. But you're not hearing much media coverage of that because the synagogue of Satan is manipulating today's media sources to build fear in people's hearts because of radical Islam. The Luciferians are those who are trying to stir up the peoples today, and it looks like they want another world war.

I beg to differ. When the so called AntiChrist shows up then the radical extremists killing rampage will swing into full gear. You ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to their Jihad. The BEAST FROM THE EARTH appears mid-way through Rev 13. This is the so called AntiChrist. He comes to deceive Muslims. Muslims are the deceived. Sadly, they are the ones who are "not written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the earth."

Read this passage from Mat 24 again please:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.

Notice is says false christs and false prophets - both are plural? This passage cannot be referring to one man, the AKA AntiChrist. The passage deals with multiple false christs and prophets.

The verse below had me stumped for a long time.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Then I saw that the above passage as given in Luke 17 was really the response to a question. Look at Luke's version.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

[SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

So the question is where is the one being taken being taken to? Both Matthew and Luke tell us the "taken" are brought to the Body where the eagles will be gathered.

Then John solves the riddle:

Revelation 16:16

And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

Revelation 19:19
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

Dear Popeye and other pre-tribbers, they are being taken to Armageddon!!! Not to the rapture.

The timing is right. It matches perfectly with Mat 13's at the End of the Age, the angels are sent out to first gather the tares. Thus the "TAKEN" are the WICKED, which are the Muslims living in and around Israel and they are being taken to where the body or carcass is where the eagles or vultures will gather. (On a silly note, pre-tribbers think this is their rapture, LOL. They want to be the ones taken - not me because I don't like where the taken are going) So what this passage really describes is the removal of the wicked from the Land where Christ will reign leaving behind only the Saints.

So let's ask, who is this Body or Carcass? Do you know???? Once you know, then you will know where it will be. Once you understand the who and the where, then you understand who the people are and the number of them which is 1/3 of the earth.

 

[PlainWord]

One more passage on this from Ezek 28:

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“And there shall no longer be a pricking brier or a painful thorn for the house of Israel from among all who are around them, who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord God.”

[SUP]25 [/SUP]‘Thus says the Lord God: “When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And they will dwell safely there, build houses, and plant vineyards; yes, they will dwell securely, when I execute judgments on all those around them who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord their God.”’”


This ties it all up, doesn't it?

 

[PlainWord]

Sorry, your case is just too weak when exposed in light of God's Word.

You forget about old Tyre and its history. The rock island of Tyre was a city of world commerce at its historical height. It had double walls 150 ft. tall around it, was impossible to conquer from the sea, or land. There was no access out to it from the land side, not until Alexander the Great was given by God to conquer it (God had pronounced judgment on Tyre). Alexander's army moved earth out to it to build a land bridge (which still stands today).

In Ezek.28, God compares Satan to the old king and prince of Tyre (means 'rock'). He links the idea of traffic and world commerce with how Satan originally rebelled against Him in the beginning. Thus Tyre became a symbol for paganism and its seeking to control the wealth of the earth (which all wealth actually belongs to God).

In Revelation, that idea as symbolic is applied to Jerusalem during the coming Antichrist's reign there, using the label of Babylon. It's because Babylon was the earliest origin of false idol pagan worship. All pagan ideology has it ancient roots from ancient Babylon. Because Rev.11:8 specifically tells us Jerusalem in that future time is represented spiritually as Egypt and Sodom, that is pointing to this concept of paganism and its origin from ancient Babylon.

This is also why the ancient Babylonian tablets have a pagan account of the creation, in contrast to the creation of Genesis given through Moses. Those tablets are actually older than Moses. Thus, it's all about Lucifer and his followers who worship him. That's who are given control in the last days, and are in control today, and will be in control of Jerusalem in the near future when it becomes spiritual Babylon during the Antichrist's reign.

There are some brethren like you that see the same kind of comparisons you're using for Mecca, but applied to the actual geographic city of Babylon, since Saddam tried to rebuild it. They like yourself, fail to understand how it will be about Jerusalem in the spiritual sense as Babylon, and not the literal geographical location of Babylon in Iraq.

Awe man, you are so close. You are just barely missing it. You made the Tyre connection which I too just discussed but then you applied it to Jerusalem which is wrong.

Jerusalem is so obviously not Mystery Babylon that I am shocked anyone can think it could be. You have to consider ALL THE CLUES, not just one of them.

Here are the top 20 clues about Mystery Babylon:

1.Supported by a succession of 7 (separate) World Powers throughout history
2.“Sits on”/Supported by - evil 8th Satanic Empire related to the previous 7.
3.Biggest (or oldest) False Religion on earth or both
4.Many peoples from many nations worship her
5.All nations deceived by her sorcery
6.Is also a “Great City”
7.Insults true God
8.Similar to former (original) Babylon
9.Located in a Wilderness/Desert
10.John did not seem to recognize her or her location
11.Kings of Earth fornicate (worship with) or serve her
12.Makes war with the Lamb
13.Kills Saints and Prophets
14.Beheads those who won’t convert
15.Near a busy sea (shipping) lane
16.Ships became rich from selling her “goods”
17.Merchants of the Earth weep at her demise
18.They mourn by throwing dust on their heads
19.Will be attacked and destroyed by the 8th Kingdom who carries her
20.Will be utterly burned with fire (nuked?)

Here's why she cannot be Jerusalem/Judaism:

1.Among smallest Religion <.5%
2.Not part of a 7 kingdom succession
3.Few peoples/nations worship her
4.Not Similar to former Babylon
5.Not Located in a Wilderness/Desert
6.John did not recognize her
7.No Kings of Earth Fornicate with her
8.Doesn’t Behead People
9.Not Near a busy seaport
10.Few get rich from selling her “goods”
11.Merchants would rejoice at demise
12.Can’t be destroyed as Christ returns
to Jerusalem and reigns from there



ISLAM and her city, MECCA, fits every one of the 20 clues.

 

[PlainWord]

As are the orthodox Jews, and also we who have believed on Jesus Christ. The Antichrist is coming in all those roles to deceive as many as will wrongly bow to him as God. That was our Lord Jesus' warning.

You mention 3 groups:

Muslims
Jews
Christians

Of the three, who have been deceived the most? I'm talking about ALREADY DECEIVED.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Islam is the lie. False god with a false prophet just as John warns. Who are the condemned?

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The condemned are those who worship the BEAST and receives the mark of his name.

You (and plenty of others) are stuck in this idea that the false religion (which I say is already here) is yet future and that all on the planet (unsaved) will fall for this fake Christ. Not so. There is a region on this planet which both Daniel and John call, "the Earth." It is those who "dwell on the earth" who are deceived. It is extremely important that you figure this one very important fact out and that is the "earth" is not the entire planet, it is the known world in Daniel and John's day.

Because you have not come to accept this very important fact, you have no idea how close we are to everything being fulfilled. Mystery Babylon is no mystery anymore. The 8th beast is growing before our very eyes and who can wage war with it? The French, the Russians, neighboring Muslims, the USA? Soon the Muslim world will marvel that the Beast is withstanding and growing in the face of attacks from the strongest countries on the planet.

 

[PlainWord]

You miss such a simple matter regarding our Lord Jesus' subject about the watchman. If we were to be raptured prior to His return to deal with the wicked, and we are part of that army returning with Him, then that destroys completely His metaphor about us watching so as to not allow the thief to break in at midnight. Don't you understand that means we have to be right here on earth to fulfill that watch when He comes?

Another thing is, Apostles Paul and Peter made it very clear that the "day of the Lord" events of the elements burning up occur "as a thief in the night" which is the time of our Lord Jesus' coming that He commanded us to be on watch for (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10). That means we have... to be here on earth to do that watch. But your pre-trib rapture doctors are telling you to watch for His coming PRIOR to that "day of the Lord". When the "day of the Lord" events occur, the reign of the wicked on this earth is over per God's Word.

Brilliant and insightful statements like this is why I am not giving up on you for being able to see the rest of the picture. You nailed this. Now come the rest of the way.

 

[popeye]

You miss such a simple matter regarding our Lord Jesus' subject about the watchman. If we were to be raptured prior to His return to deal with the wicked, and we are part of that army returning with Him, then that destroys completely His metaphor about us watching so as to not allow the thief to break in at midnight. Don't you understand that means we have to be right here on earth to fulfill that watch when He comes?

Another thing is, Apostles Paul and Peter made it very clear that the "day of the Lord" events of the elements burning up occur "as a thief in the night" which is the time of our Lord Jesus' coming that He commanded us to be on watch for (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10). That means we have... to be here on earth to do that watch. But your pre-trib rapture doctors are telling you to watch for His coming PRIOR to that "day of the Lord". When the "day of the Lord" events occur, the reign of the wicked on this earth is over per God's Word.

Show me any pretrib that incorporates my centering on the bride and groom.

You are standing on your ability to skirt verses,not systematic theology.

Your avoidance of the verses I bring is ,or should be a red flag.

You have NO POSTTIB MODEL. NADA.
NOAH,LOT,THE BABY JESUS, all were delivered PREJUDGMENT.

The AC,as I stated earlier,kills all humanoids W/O the mark.

You guys have no case

I will gladly join you in changing my views,but not at the twisting and omission of the verses and dynamics that I bring.

How could you miss such simple dynamics?

.....by taking things off the table,and using that dimension as a starting place.

There is no other explanation.

Look at preterism. What is their impossibility?

HISTORY.
The very dynamic the supposedly master,is their enemy.

Postrib has the same obstacles. ....no postrib anything except a warrior general with his wife as his army,oriented in heaven RETURNING AS A UNIT.
Rev 19.

All that "we gotta be here in the GT due to xyz" is pure conjecture.

I present to you IMPOSSIBILITIES,not one,but SEVERAL.

What in the world makes you guys think postrib?
You don't even have a model or concept of some bizarre instance where God shows up postjudgement and delivers.

POSTRIB RAPTURE IS IMPOSSIBLE

Even the worst mutilators like Steve Anderson will only go halfway (midtrib) through the GT in their conjecture.

Postrb is defeated. Easily, irrefutably ,defeated.

 

[popeye]

Brilliant and insightful statements like this is why I am not giving up on you for being able to see the rest of the picture. You nailed this. Now come the rest of the way.

Works beautifully. Just omit my verses....
AND BINGO!!!
POSTRIB IS BORN.!!!

 

[popeye]

I beg to differ. When the so called AntiChrist shows up then the radical extremists killing rampage will swing into full gear. You ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to their Jihad. The BEAST FROM THE EARTH appears mid-way through Rev 13. This is the so called AntiChrist. He comes to deceive Muslims. Muslims are the deceived. Sadly, they are the ones who are "not written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the earth."

Read this passage from Mat 24 again please:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.

Notice is says false christs and false prophets - both are plural? This passage cannot be referring to one man, the AKA AntiChrist. The passage deals with multiple false christs and prophets.

The verse below had me stumped for a long time.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Then I saw that the above passage as given in Luke 17 was really the response to a question. Look at Luke's version.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

[SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

So the question is where is the one being taken being taken to? Both Matthew and Luke tell us the "taken" are brought to the Body where the eagles will be gathered.

Then John solves the riddle:

Revelation 16:16

And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

Revelation 19:19
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

Dear Popeye and other pre-tribbers, they are being taken to Armageddon!!! Not to the rapture.

The timing is right. It matches perfectly with Mat 13's at the End of the Age, the angels are sent out to first gather the tares. Thus the "TAKEN" are the WICKED, which are the Muslims living in and around Israel and they are being taken to where the body or carcass is where the eagles or vultures will gather. (On a silly note, pre-tribbers think this is their rapture, LOL. They want to be the ones taken - not me because I don't like where the taken are going) So what this passage really describes is the removal of the wicked from the Land where Christ will reign leaving behind only the Saints.

So let's ask, who is this Body or Carcass? Do you know???? Once you know, then you will know where it will be. Once you understand the who and the where, then you understand who the people are and the number of them which is 1/3 of the earth.

Jettison the obvios,ignore the context...and bingo! Start from there!

Grinding at the mill?

Your setting (total conjecture) is a destroyed world,reeling from massive judgement.

Jesus has depicted folks at work.

Please stop taking things off the table.

You guys actually stoop to "the wicked raptured" in your cunning evasion song and dance.

Remember,you NEED A POSTRIB RAPTURE.

YOU DEPICTED AS POSTRIB "RAPTURE OF THE WICKED"

ANOTHER corner you painted yourself into.

GUYS,please remember, To think "RAPTURE".....you need a postrib RAPTURE.

somehow that has to be addressed in your quagmire.

 

[popeye]

One more passage on this from Ezek 28:

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“And there shall no longer be a pricking brier or a painful thorn for the house of Israel from among all who are around them, who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord God.”

[SUP]25 [/SUP]‘Thus says the Lord God: “When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And they will dwell safely there, build houses, and plant vineyards; yes, they will dwell securely, when I execute judgments on all those around them who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord their God.”’”


This ties it all up, doesn't it?

Works for any end times position

 

[ukok102nak]

Revelation: 13. 18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Daniel 10:20
And he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? And now I return to fight with the head of Persia. And when I have left, see, the head of Greece shall come.

:smoke: are all this literally for it tells about a number of a man
and from the daniel's writtings it tells also about the names of nations
which are still existing today . . ..

® : alam nyo ba na kung paano naparito ang panginoong hesukristo
ay siya namang kabaliktaran ng pagparito ng " darating "
: : what do we mean to say is the exact coming of the arriving
is the vice versa or the very opposite of how
our lord jesus christ came unto this reality

† : Where the beast tries to immitate it as being born also
to a virgin but with a diffirent situation
and even live in the the same manner as jesus live
during those time of his as a human being in this world
but there will be no crossifixation for the beast will crossify the beliefs of
the unbelievers and even the elites shall be decieved
:read:
Daniel 11:32
“And by flatteries he shall profane those who do wrong against the covenant, but the people who know their Elohim shall be strong, and shall act.



:lmfao: according to them
:bulong:
he shall be all powerful and shall do all things more greatful than
the works of our lord jesus christ in order to insult the only begotten son
::usap: the he shall be proclaimed saviour in his nation
that no great men among the history of his people
could surpass his greatness

please remember this verses
:read:
Daniel 11:21“And in his place shall arise a despised one, to whom they shall not give the excellency of the rule. But he shall come in peaceably, and seize the rule by flatteries.
22 “And the arms of the flood shall be swept away from before him and be broken, and also the prince of the covenant.
~:» FOR WHEN SAW THIS SIGN
LET US CONTINUE
:read:
23 “And after they joined him, he shall work deceit, and shall come up and become strong with a small nation.
24 “He shall enter peaceably, even into the richest places of the province, and do what his fathers have not done, nor his forefathers: distribute among them plunder and spoil and supplies, and devise his plots against the strongholds, but only for a time.

:ty: perhaps the whole chapter of this verses could explain us more


God bless us all always

 

[ukok102nak]

† : Where the beast tries to immitate it as being born also
to a virgin but with a diffirent situation
and even live in the the same manner as jesus live
during those time of his as a human being in this world
but there will be no crossifixation for the beast will crossify the beliefs of
the unbelievers and even the elites shall be decieved
:read:
Daniel 11:32
“And by flatteries he shall profane those who do wrong against the covenant, but the people who know their Elohim shall be strong, and shall act.
33 “And those of the people who have insight shall give understanding to many. And they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering, for days.
34 “And when they stumble, they shall be helped, a little help, but many shall join them, by flatteries.
~:› SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE
FOR AS WOMEN AS I AM WAS TOLD NOT TEACH THIS THINGS
BECAUSE THE EVIL THINGS COULD EASILY TEMP US
AS IT IS WRITTEN
THE SERPENT NEVER SUCCEDED TO TEMP ADAM
BUT IT IS EVE WHO TEMP ADAM TO EAT THE FRUIT OF KNOWLEDGE
:read:
1 Timothy 2:14
And Aḏam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, fell into transgression.
15 But she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in belief, and love, and set-apartness, with sensibleness.

:hihihi: and we thank you for this

God bless us all always

 

[popeye]

One note of interest.

Notice that postrobs never initiate any bride /groom dimension.

It has them backpedaling every time. We brought so many concepts from the word to the debate.
Their focus is,and has always been,"anti pretrib".

We bring a verse,they bend it to fit.

In Noah,ALL THEY SEE IS THE FLOOD,THE WICKED,AMD JUDGEMENT.

NOAH IS NEVER A PLAYER,NOR IS THE PLACEMENT OF NOAH.

ALL THE DYNAMICS OF WEDDINGS RELATIONSHIP TO END TIMES IS NOT ONLY IGNORED,BUT IS ATTACKED AS A FARCE.

WATCHING IS REDUCED TO A NON EXISTENT LIVING"ELECT" IN A DESTROYED PLANET.

SINCE THEY CAN'T ANSWER THE CONCEPT THAT THE AC KILLS ALL W/O THE MARK,THEY REDUCE THE ENTIRE PICTURE TO THE MIDDLE EASTERN REGION.

THEY MUST CHANGE REV 20 TO MAKE THOSE "INNUMERABLE ONES" VOIDED FROM HEAVEN ,AND FIT A NEW POSTRIB FALSE CONCEPT

VIRGINS CAN NOT BE VIRGINS IN MAT 25, DUE TO THEIR FALSE BRACKETING OF EVENTS.

CONCLUSION:

THERE IS ONLY ONE. Postrib rapture is fabricated in the minds of men.

 

[PlainWord]

One note of interest.

Notice that postrobs never initiate any bride /groom dimension.

It has them backpedaling every time. We brought so many concepts from the word to the debate.
Their focus is,and has always been,"anti pretrib".

We bring a verse,they bend it to fit.

In Noah,ALL THEY SEE IS THE FLOOD,THE WICKED,AMD JUDGEMENT.

NOAH IS NEVER A PLAYER,NOR IS THE PLACEMENT OF NOAH.

ALL THE DYNAMICS OF WEDDINGS RELATIONSHIP TO END TIMES IS NOT ONLY IGNORED,BUT IS ATTACKED AS A FARCE.

WATCHING IS REDUCED TO A NON EXISTENT LIVING"ELECT" IN A DESTROYED PLANET.

SINCE THEY CAN'T ANSWER THE CONCEPT THAT THE AC KILLS ALL W/O THE MARK,THEY REDUCE THE ENTIRE PICTURE TO THE MIDDLE EASTERN REGION.

THEY MUST CHANGE REV 20 TO MAKE THOSE "INNUMERABLE ONES" VOIDED FROM HEAVEN ,AND FIT A NEW POSTRIB FALSE CONCEPT

VIRGINS CAN NOT BE VIRGINS IN MAT 25, DUE TO THEIR FALSE BRACKETING OF EVENTS.

CONCLUSION:

THERE IS ONLY ONE. Postrib rapture is fabricated in the minds of men.

Your arguments are ludicrous that's why I for one don't waste much time on them. Where in the Bible is the Wedding (Bride/Groom) said to be pre-trib? Nowhere. In fact, if you read Rev 19 you see that it is located at the Second Coming.

Then you talk about the AntiChrist killing all those without the Mark. This is another complete fabrication and twisting of the Word which I have pointed out to you at least 74 times. Having the Mark or not having the Mark doesn't get you killed by the AntiChrist. Having the Mark is one of three options you need in order to buy or sell. GET IT RIGHT. Actually read the Word and stop making things up.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

NOBODY MAY BUY OR SELL!!!

It is the NOT WORSHIPING that gets you killed.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

This is happening today!! Anyone (Muslim) who will not swear allegiance to ISIS (under their control) is killed.

It is impossible to have a discussion with someone who cannot read or cannot or will not comprehend plain language. Sorry if it seems I'm yelling, just trying to get through to you.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Greetings plainword,

While you are correct in that only those with the mark will be able to buy or sell, popeye is correct in that, if one does not have the mark they will also be persecuted and killed during that time as can be seen in the following:

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands."

In the scripture above, the great tribulation saints are shown to be killed for 1) their testimony for Jesus 2) for the word of God 3) for not worshiping the beast 4) for not worshiping his image and 5) because they will not have received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. Therefore, yes, one of the reasons that the great tribulation saints of that time will be killed will be for not receiving the mark of the beast.

 

[PlainWord]

Jettison the obvios,ignore the context...and bingo! Start from there!

Grinding at the mill?

Your setting (total conjecture) is a destroyed world,reeling from massive judgement.

Jesus has depicted folks at work.

Please stop taking things off the table.

You guys actually stoop to "the wicked raptured" in your cunning evasion song and dance.

Remember,you NEED A POSTRIB RAPTURE.

YOU DEPICTED AS POSTRIB "RAPTURE OF THE WICKED"

ANOTHER corner you painted yourself into.

GUYS,please remember, To think "RAPTURE".....you need a postrib RAPTURE.

somehow that has to be addressed in your quagmire.

The judgement happens at Christ's Second Coming (which is post trib). Remember He comes as a Thief? Therefore the 2 men in the field are humming to themselves, "Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream" them WHAM. Christ descends with His angels and the wicked one is yanked off to Armageddon to judgment while the righteous one is left where he is.

The Rapture, as you think of it, happens at the end, the very end, when God returns. God will bring those who sleep in Jesus. For God Himself will descend from heaven with a shout and the sound of his own trumpet. Then those asleep will arise first then those who are still alive and remaining will be caught up to meet God the Father in the air. Then we will all forever and always be with our Heavenly Father the Lord God Almighty, our creator.

Guess what? When this happens, there is no more earth, no more death, no more wicked or wickedness. There is no more Satan or evil. You take the above passage and place it before the Tribulation so that you have people flying off the planet in some secret return of Christ that nobody sees then great wickedness coming down and deceiving people into thinking he's God, then this fake god starts slaughtering people left and right then Jesus comes back a second time with all the dead then there is more killing this time of the wicked. The problem is your scenario cannot be found anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Christ descends with His angels and the wicked one is yanked off to Armageddon to judgment while the righteous one is left where he is.

Hi PlainWord,

Scripture is in agreement here with you in that, it is indeed the wicked (one taken) who the angels collect first when Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. They are the ones who will be killed along with those kings, their generals, their armies, etc., etc. with that double-edged sword.

The Rapture, as you think of it, happens at the end, the very end, when God returns. God will bring those who sleep in Jesus

Regarding the above, if by "the very end" you are referring to when Christ returns to the earth to end the age as shown in Mt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21, then this cannot be the time when the resurrection and catching away (RCA) takes place. The reason for this is that Christ took upon himself the wrath that we deserve and thereby satisfied the wrath of God which is due us because of our sins. By claiming that the RCA takes place when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, you would be putting the church through the entire wrath of God, which is carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. The truth regarding this is that, believers are not appointed to suffer wrath and therefore will not go through that time of wrath.

The problem with this on-going issue of when the RCA takes place in relation to the Christ's return to the earth to end the age is that, many have not recognized that these are two separate events. The event mentioned in 1 Cor.15:51-53 and 1 Thes.4:16 is regarding Christ's descending to gather the dead and living in him, where according to John 14:1-3, Jesus will then take us back to the Father's house. At the end of that seven years, those same believers are the ones dressed in white and will be riding on white horses coming back with Jesus when he ends the age, physically returning to the earth to establish his millennial kingdom. God is not going to build his church and then send it through his wrath!

Then those asleep will arise first then those who are still alive and remaining will be caught up to meet God the Father in the air. Then we will all forever and always be with our Heavenly Father the Lord God Almighty, our creator.

Just to be clear, God the Father is not the One who will be meeting us in the air, but it will be the Lord Jesus who we will be meeting us. From there the Lord will then take those who he resurrected and those who will have been changed and caught up, back to the Father's house.

You take the above passage and place it before the Tribulation so that you have people flying off the planet in some secret return of Christ

First of all, the Lord's return to gather us is a promise to all believers to remove us from the earth prior to his wrath being poured out. With these events of wrath (seals, trumpets and bowls) God is going to decimate the population of the earth and dismantle all human government in preparation for his kingdom. Regarding "people flying off the planet," scripture states that there is going to be a resurrection of the dead and those who are still alive will be changed in a moment and "caught up" in the clouds to the meet the Lord in the air. So, why is this such a difficult concept to understand?

then this fake god starts slaughtering people left and right then Jesus comes back a second time with all the dead then there is more killing this time of the wicked. The problem is your scenario cannot be found anywhere in the Bible.

"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

"He was given power to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation."

There is indeed a man coming, who has been prophesied of even in the book of Daniel, called the ruler, by Paul as the man of lawlessness, and by John as the antichrist and the beast. There is plenty of scripture that demonstrates that he will be proclaiming to be God during those very last days and that all inhabitants of the earth excluding Israel and the great tribulation saints will worship him and receive his mark.

 

[DP]

IMHO it is exactly about the sons of Ishmael that the Tares represent. If you go back to when Israel first entered the promised land they were instructed to kill everyone there, all men, woman and children and livestock. They were to leave none alive. They did it on a couple of occasions then they started sparing the women and children and started taking the women as wives and saving the best of the livestock. Then they started serving the idols of those in the Land. Because of this God said:

Numbers 33:55

But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it shall be that those whom you let remain shall be irritants in your eyes and thorns in your sides, and they shall harass you in the land where you dwell.

Joshua 23:13
know for certain that the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations from before you. But they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land which the Lord your God has given you.

Israel has been dealing with this mistake for over 4,000 years. This prophesy, if you will, is one of the most accurate and obviously fulfilled of any. Even today, Israel tries to make peace with those who live among them but there will never be peace with them. They have to all be removed and or killed which will happen when Christ returns.

A tare and a wheat growing in Israel look identical. Even a very experienced farmer has a hard time telling them apart until close to harvest. Paul discusses this in Gal 4 and I believe Jesus is talking about this in Mat 13. So much of the Bible is devoted to Israel and those which impact her, from the OT to the NT. Nothing has changed. The Muslims and Jews living in Israel look identical. You cannot tell them apart if you are a visitor unless you know where you are or they are dressed a certain way.

Yes, I have heard many a pastor preach that the tares represent false Christians and that the kingdom is spiritual. A good case can be made for this view. However, if you recognize that the tares are called the sons of the wicked one (the devil), and compare that to Gal 4 which is clearly discussing ethnic Muslims and Mat 24:40 where two men are in the field, one taken and one left, you see that it is really dealing with the Muslims being in Israel issue. Obviously Christ will not be ruling from Jerusalem with Idol worshiping Muslims living among the Saints. They have to go and each one will absolutely be killed.

Actually, per Judges 2 & 3, and Deut.20, it was a specific group of Canaanite nations that God told Israel to destroy back then. The Kenites were among those nations of Canaan, yet they became the scribes of Israel (1 Chron.2:55). The peoples of Ishmael were not included, as God promised Hagar that He would make of her son kings. When they rebelled God punished them, just as He did when Israel rebelled against Him. And He did say He made Ishmael a wild people, and that their hand would be against every brother.

 

[DP]

Awe man, you are so close. You are just barely missing it. You made the Tyre connection which I too just discussed but then you applied it to Jerusalem which is wrong.

Jerusalem is so obviously not Mystery Babylon that I am shocked anyone can think it could be. You have to consider ALL THE CLUES, not just one of them.

Here are the top 20 clues about Mystery Babylon:

1.Supported by a succession of 7 (separate) World Powers throughout history
2.“Sits on”/Supported by - evil 8th Satanic Empire related to the previous 7.
3.Biggest (or oldest) False Religion on earth or both
4.Many peoples from many nations worship her
5.All nations deceived by her sorcery
6.Is also a “Great City”
7.Insults true God
8.Similar to former (original) Babylon
9.Located in a Wilderness/Desert
10.John did not seem to recognize her or her location
11.Kings of Earth fornicate (worship with) or serve her
12.Makes war with the Lamb
13.Kills Saints and Prophets
14.Beheads those who won’t convert
15.Near a busy sea (shipping) lane
16.Ships became rich from selling her “goods”
17.Merchants of the Earth weep at her demise
18.They mourn by throwing dust on their heads
19.Will be attacked and destroyed by the 8th Kingdom who carries her
20.Will be utterly burned with fire (nuked?)

Here's why she cannot be Jerusalem/Judaism:

1.Among smallest Religion <.5%
2.Not part of a 7 kingdom succession
3.Few peoples/nations worship her
4.Not Similar to former Babylon
5.Not Located in a Wilderness/Desert
6.John did not recognize her
7.No Kings of Earth Fornicate with her
8.Doesn’t Behead People
9.Not Near a busy seaport
10.Few get rich from selling her “goods”
11.Merchants would rejoice at demise
12.Can’t be destroyed as Christ returns
to Jerusalem and reigns from there



ISLAM and her city, MECCA, fits every one of the 20 clues.

Again, you're trying to apply those things in Revelation to a situation that does not yet exist, because the Babylon harlot will only become manifest during the coming tribulation when the pseudo-Christ arrives. And that's the most important part you left out, the arrival of the pseudo-Christ, which God's Word specifically shows is to... Jerusalem, and not anywhere else on earth.