the rapture

[DP]

You mention 3 groups:

Muslims
Jews
Christians

Of the three, who have been deceived the most? I'm talking about ALREADY DECEIVED.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Islam is the lie. False god with a false prophet just as John warns. Who are the condemned?

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The condemned are those who worship the BEAST and receives the mark of his name.

You (and plenty of others) are stuck in this idea that the false religion (which I say is already here) is yet future and that all on the planet (unsaved) will fall for this fake Christ. Not so. There is a region on this planet which both Daniel and John call, "the Earth." It is those who "dwell on the earth" who are deceived. It is extremely important that you figure this one very important fact out and that is the "earth" is not the entire planet, it is the known world in Daniel and John's day.

Because you have not come to accept this very important fact, you have no idea how close we are to everything being fulfilled. Mystery Babylon is no mystery anymore. The 8th beast is growing before our very eyes and who can wage war with it? The French, the Russians, neighboring Muslims, the USA? Soon the Muslim world will marvel that the Beast is withstanding and growing in the face of attacks from the strongest countries on the planet.

You have to look at Paul's warning in 2 Thess.2 and note the specific timing he was pointing to, i.e., the tribulation timing when the pseudo-Christ will sit in the temple of God, which has always been about Jerusalem, especially since we've already been given the historical blueprint of Antiochus IV in 170 B.C. with the "abomination of desolation" type event.

I'm sorry brother, you simply have tunnel vision, obsessed with Islam, and I think it's because of what's going on right now. Yet, the tribulation has yet to begin.

 

[DP]

Show me any pretrib that incorporates my centering on the bride and groom.

You are standing on your ability to skirt verses,not systematic theology.

Your avoidance of the verses I bring is ,or should be a red flag.

You have NO POSTTIB MODEL. NADA.
NOAH,LOT,THE BABY JESUS, all were delivered PREJUDGMENT.

The AC,as I stated earlier,kills all humanoids W/O the mark.

You guys have no case

I will gladly join you in changing my views,but not at the twisting and omission of the verses and dynamics that I bring.

How could you miss such simple dynamics?

.....by taking things off the table,and using that dimension as a starting place.

There is no other explanation.

Look at preterism. What is their impossibility?

HISTORY.
The very dynamic the supposedly master,is their enemy.

Postrib has the same obstacles. ....no postrib anything except a warrior general with his wife as his army,oriented in heaven RETURNING AS A UNIT.
Rev 19.

All that "we gotta be here in the GT due to xyz" is pure conjecture.

I present to you IMPOSSIBILITIES,not one,but SEVERAL.

What in the world makes you guys think postrib?
You don't even have a model or concept of some bizarre instance where God shows up postjudgement and delivers.

POSTRIB RAPTURE IS IMPOSSIBLE

Even the worst mutilators like Steve Anderson will only go halfway (midtrib) through the GT in their conjecture.

Postrb is defeated. Easily, irrefutably ,defeated.

Sorry popeye, but that's just hot air. You have not made any relevant statements that would counter what I showed there from God's Word.

 

[DP]

Hi PlainWord,

Scripture is in agreement here with you in that, it is indeed the wicked (one taken) who the angels collect first when Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. They are the ones who will be killed along with those kings, their generals, their armies, etc., etc. with that double-edged sword.



Regarding the above, if by "the very end" you are referring to when Christ returns to the earth to end the age as shown in Mt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21, then this cannot be the time when the resurrection and catching away (RCA) takes place. The reason for this is that Christ took upon himself the wrath that we deserve and thereby satisfied the wrath of God which is due us because of our sins. By claiming that the RCA takes place when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, you would be putting the church through the entire wrath of God, which is carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. The truth regarding this is that, believers are not appointed to suffer wrath and therefore will not go through that time of wrath.

The problem with this on-going issue of when the RCA takes place in relation to the Christ's return to the earth to end the age is that, many have not recognized that these are two separate events. The event mentioned in 1 Cor.15:51-53 and 1 Thes.4:16 is regarding Christ's descending to gather the dead and living in him, where according to John 14:1-3, Jesus will then take us back to the Father's house. At the end of that seven years, those same believers are the ones dressed in white and will be riding on white horses coming back with Jesus when he ends the age, physically returning to the earth to establish his millennial kingdom. God is not going to build his church and then send it through his wrath!

But what you're not seeing, and that because of what you've been taught by those who preach a pre-trib rapture, is that the wrath upon the wicked during the tribulation is by God's two witnesses of Rev.11 for 1260 days, the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week". You have misunderstood the specific 'wrath' that Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5 that he said we are not appointed to, and it is God's cup of wrath upon the wicked specifically on the "day of the Lord", which is when our Lord Jesus returns "as a thief in the night".

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.


9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV


That is the specific wrath Apostle Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5, because what was the subject he was covering there? He was covering the "day of the Lord" events, and specifically how when the deceived begin to say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them, and they shall not escape. That is not the wrath during the tribulation, it's God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked on "the day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night" upon the wicked. That is not to take us by surprise Paul also said there, and linked knowing about the "times and the seasons" as a reason why we are to know that.

 

[popeye]

Sorry popeye, but that's just hot air. You have not made any relevant statements that would counter what I showed there from God's Word.

So you are confirming lot and Noah had post judgements deliverances. (in your mind,not the bible)

That,the bride dimension,and the AC martyring all humans on the planet,all declared in the word of God,from God.

You call hot air.

You are outta gas at this point friend.

 

[popeye]

But what you're not seeing, and that because of what you've been taught by those who preach a pre-trib rapture, is that the wrath upon the wicked during the tribulation is by God's two witnesses of Rev.11 for 1260 days, the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week". You have misunderstood the specific 'wrath' that Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5 that he said we are not appointed to, and it is God's cup of wrath upon the wicked specifically on the "day of the Lord", which is when our Lord Jesus returns "as a thief in the night".

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.


9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV


That is the specific wrath Apostle Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5, because what was the subject he was covering there? He was covering the "day of the Lord" events, and specifically how when the deceived begin to say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them, and they shall not escape. That is not the wrath during the tribulation, it's God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked on "the day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night" upon the wicked. That is not to take us by surprise Paul also said there, and linked knowing about the "times and the seasons" as a reason why we are to know that.

36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.


[[[[Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.]]]]..................[[[[.....And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched.....]]]]

Lets see,...oooppps....We have the thief analogy strictly connected to the saints.

And ....oooppps.....we have the master returning in the thief analogy FOR A WEDDING.

Nothing in there fits your template.




1 Thessalonians 5King James Version (KJV)

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Lets see,the earth is destroyed,along with most humans,billions are martyred,dead fish and animals litter the planet,the 4 horsemen are loosed,God is pelting all the world with fireballs,and flying scorpions stinging everyone,..oh and those with the mark have grievous sores in the bodies..

Who exactly is standing in the street saying "peace'? 'safety'?

Got pretrib rapture?

 

[DP]

So you are confirming lot and Noah had post judgements deliverances. (in your mind,not the bible)

That,the bride dimension,and the AC martyring all humans on the planet,all declared in the word of God,from God.

You call hot air.

You are outta gas at this point friend.

Your attempt to make that fit a pre-trib rapture is what is hot air. You disregard what the Scripture actually states in favor of heeding pre-trib rapture tradition from men.

My proof? Noah and his family didn't leave the earth to be protected from the flood, so there's definitely no pre-trib rapture connection with that. Lot of his family walked out of Sodom and Gomorrah, they weren't raptured out. In both cases, Noah and his, and Lot and his, REMAINED upon the earth while the wicked were destroyed out of it.

 

[DP]

36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.


[[[[Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.]]]]..................[[[[.....And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched.....]]]]

Lets see,...oooppps....We have the thief analogy strictly connected to the saints.

And ....oooppps.....we have the master returning in the thief analogy FOR A WEDDING.

Nothing in there fits your template.

It's actually your "template" of a pre-trib rapture that doesn't fit that idea. Jesus was talking about the "servants" in that, not His Church as the bride. His Church is represented there by those "servants".

And like I've shown already in several other posts, the idea of watching is about not being deceived as to that hour. Like He said, if the goodman of the house had known in what HOUR the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. That's why Apostle Paul pointed to the importance of knowing the "times and the seasons", so as to recognize that "hour" the thief comes. You pre-trib rapture folks aren't recognizing what that "hour" is.

How does the "Peace and safety" the deceived will be saying relate to that "hour"? Simple. They will have thought that HOUR had ALREADY COME and thought they were with the true Christ, when in reality, those deceived will have instead accepted the fake Christ who comes first.

But those who are found STILL watching when Jesus does come, shows that they will NOT fall away to the fake one who comes first. That is why those found still watching when our Lord Jesus does return to end that pseudo-Christ's reign, those will be blessed, because they waited for Him.

 

[PlainWord]

Greetings plainword,

While you are correct in that only those with the mark will be able to buy or sell, popeye is correct in that, if one does not have the mark they will also be persecuted and killed during that time as can be seen in the following:

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands."

In the scripture above, the great tribulation saints are shown to be killed for 1) their testimony for Jesus 2) for the word of God 3) for not worshiping the beast 4) for not worshiping his image and 5) because they will not have received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. Therefore, yes, one of the reasons that the great tribulation saints of that time will be killed will be for not receiving the mark of the beast.

Greetings Ahwatukee,

First off, there is no such thing as a "Tribulation Saint." We are all Saints. Christians in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and everywhere else over there are in full blown Tribulation now.

As for the "Mark" it is for followers of the new "Radicalized Islam." More specifically, or you live under their control, you must accept the "mark" or name or number of his name or you will not be allowed to engage in commerce (buy or sell). If you do not swear allegiance to them you will be killed. This is a Muslim thing. Already Muslims living in Iraq and Syria under ISIS are being killed (not beheaded as that is reserved for "Infidels"). Today - RIGHT NOW - this is happening.

If you are a Christian, you are beheaded. In some cases you will be given a chance to convert but more often than not you are simply beheaded. A true Christian will never swear allegiance to ISIS or convert to ISLAM (peaceful or radical). So, there is a distinction and the Bible points this out quite clearly.

Revelation 13, in its entirety, is all about the 8th and Final Radical ISLAMIC Beast that replaces the 7th Beast which was mortally wounded (Ottoman Empire in 1922) yet again lives (comes back to life). This Radical Islamic Beast begins in the area of Syria, Iraq and Iran and coalesces 10 countryless groups into one Radicalized killing machine which kills Muslims who won't join them while beheading Christians and Jews wherever they are found within the territory (SEA and EARTH) they control or will control.

Right now ISIS and its partners like Al Qaeda and Boko Haram are fitting every single description of this final BEAST. Make no mistake about it, most of the killing they do for now will be fellow Muslims who will not follow them or disagree with them. Then after 42 months a "MAN" will appear who will claim to be the one they have been waiting for. He will shows signs and wonders and will convince all Muslims to follow the BEAST from the SEA (which looks like ISIS). At this point, all Muslims will unite in this unholy Caliphate and the war against Jews and Christians will begin in earnest. This will be the GREAT TRIBULATION.

But Popeye and many others (not sure about you) are waiting for some leader to rise up in Europe after the so-called Rapture to lead the European Union against the rest of the world until the entire world is taken over and forced to worship some new global religion which includes taking a micro chip in one's hand or forehead. This European Leader will wage war against these so-call Tribulation Era Saints (brand new Christians who just became Christian when they saw or heard of the Rapture) slaughtering them by the millions. This view is 1000% bogus and is not taught. It is a wild story promoted by the likes of Tim LaHaye, Pat Robertson, John Hagee and many others. This nonsense has got to stop!!

 

[popeye]

Greetings Ahwatukee,

First off, there is no such thing as a "Tribulation Saint." We are all Saints. Christians in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and everywhere else over there are in full blown Tribulation now.

As for the "Mark" it is for followers of the new "Radicalized Islam." More specifically, or you live under their control, you must accept the "mark" or name or number of his name or you will not be allowed to engage in commerce (buy or sell). If you do not swear allegiance to them you will be killed. This is a Muslim thing. Already Muslims living in Iraq and Syria under ISIS are being killed (not beheaded as that is reserved for "Infidels"). Today - RIGHT NOW - this is happening.

If you are a Christian, you are beheaded. In some cases you will be given a chance to convert but more often than not you are simply beheaded. A true Christian will never swear allegiance to ISIS or convert to ISLAM (peaceful or radical). So, there is a distinction and the Bible points this out quite clearly.

Revelation 13, in its entirety, is all about the 8th and Final Radical ISLAMIC Beast that replaces the 7th Beast which was mortally wounded (Ottoman Empire in 1922) yet again lives (comes back to life). This Radical Islamic Beast begins in the area of Syria, Iraq and Iran and coalesces 10 countryless groups into one Radicalized killing machine which kills Muslims who won't join them while beheading Christians and Jews wherever they are found within the territory (SEA and EARTH) they control or will control.

Right now ISIS and its partners like Al Qaeda and Boko Haram are fitting every single description of this final BEAST. Make no mistake about it, most of the killing they do for now will be fellow Muslims who will not follow them or disagree with them. Then after 42 months a "MAN" will appear who will claim to be the one they have been waiting for. He will shows signs and wonders and will convince all Muslims to follow the BEAST from the SEA (which looks like ISIS). At this point, all Muslims will unite in this unholy Caliphate and the war against Jews and Christians will begin in earnest. This will be the GREAT TRIBULATION.

But Popeye and many others (not sure about you) are waiting for some leader to rise up in Europe after the so-called Rapture to lead the European Union against the rest of the world until the entire world is taken over and forced to worship some new global religion which includes taking a micro chip in one's hand or forehead. This European Leader will wage war against these so-call Tribulation Era Saints (brand new Christians who just became Christian when they saw or heard of the Rapture) slaughtering them by the millions. This view is 1000% bogus and is not taught. It is a wild story promoted by the likes of Tim LaHaye, Pat Robertson, John Hagee and many others. This nonsense has got to stop!!

Yes,I agree.
Pat Robertson is a great man,but like you,his postrib nonsense has to stop!!

He has never been pretrib,BTW.

SO,NOW WE HAVE 2POSTTIB TODDLERS PREACHING ERROR AND NONSENSE FROM YOUR OWN CAMP...HILARIOUS.

You guys are confused

 

[popeye]

It's actually your "template" of a pre-trib rapture that doesn't fit that idea. Jesus was talking about the "servants" in that, not His Church as the bride. His Church is represented there by those "servants".

And like I've shown already in several other posts, the idea of watching is about not being deceived as to that hour. Like He said, if the goodman of the house had known in what HOUR the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. That's why Apostle Paul pointed to the importance of knowing the "times and the seasons", so as to recognize that "hour" the thief comes. You pre-trib rapture folks aren't recognizing what that "hour" is.

How does the "Peace and safety" the deceived will be saying relate to that "hour"? Simple. They will have thought that HOUR had ALREADY COME and thought they were with the true Christ, when in reality, those deceived will have instead accepted the fake Christ who comes first.

But those who are found STILL watching when Jesus does come, shows that they will NOT fall away to the fake one who comes first. That is why those found still watching when our Lord Jesus does return to end that pseudo-Christ's reign, those will be blessed, because they waited for Him.

IOW,DURING WWII,WHEN LONDON WAS IN RUINS,HALF THE POPULATION CRAWLED OUTSIDE AND SHOUTED "PEACE AND SAFETY"

AND it was normal to do that huh?

Oh,and THEN sudden destruction?

See that?

Your saying destruction comes AFTER destruction?


Your thief template isn't even remotely plausible.

So far,you are almost completely wrong.

I think there was one or two things you scored with PW.

You are GT CENTERED....anti pretrb,so it will be difficult to get a "watchful",circumspect take on end times.

 

[popeye]

Your attempt to make that fit a pre-trib rapture is what is hot air. You disregard what the Scripture actually states in favor of heeding pre-trib rapture tradition from men.

My proof? Noah and his family didn't leave the earth to be protected from the flood, so there's definitely no pre-trib rapture connection with that. Lot of his family walked out of Sodom and Gomorrah, they weren't raptured out. In both cases, Noah and his, and Lot and his, REMAINED upon the earth while the wicked were destroyed out of it.

Like I said,you got a big job with Noah,ignoring the typology.

Ark=type of heaven

ENTERED PREJUDGMENT

Door was shut by GOD.

Hmmmm where in end times is a door shut?

10 virgin parable.

Ark rises into the clouds,when?

Lets go with after the flood and see if it fits....

UM,NOPE,IT WAS IN FACT DURING THE JUDGEMENT.

It is like you guys are making fools out of yourself and Jesus while mocking the word

 

[popeye]

Postrib,"the wicked are taken first"

Ok,where are the wicked removed,raptured,postjudgement,and taken to a battle?

Now don't forget you guys claim the church is also removed and taken to a battle.


Got confusion?

 

[popeye]

Ok,why don't you guys just say "I don't know"

That could be a new beginning.

Then,gather ALL THE VERSES,COME BACK AND RATIONALLY TAKE A NEW LOOK.

 

[popeye]

I am so glad I did not entertain that error.

Look where that beast has taken you,died,and left you in scriptural no mans land.

 

[DP]

Yes,I agree.
Pat Robertson is a great man,but like you,his postrib nonsense has to stop!!

He has never been pretrib,BTW.

SO,NOW WE HAVE 2POSTTIB TODDLERS PREACHING ERROR AND NONSENSE FROM YOUR OWN CAMP...HILARIOUS.

You guys are confused

You're just a white-washed wall that's going to come tumbling down. There's no telling what lies you'll tell next just so you can keep your pre-trib rapture tradition. I've given you ample room and opportunity to discuss many Scriptures which reveal opposite of the pre-trib rapture doctrine that you've been taught, and you won't discuss them, but instead throw out false innuendos and lies. God rebuke you.

 

[DP]

IOW,DURING WWII,WHEN LONDON WAS IN RUINS,HALF THE POPULATION CRAWLED OUTSIDE AND SHOUTED "PEACE AND SAFETY"

AND it was normal to do that huh?

Oh,and THEN sudden destruction?

See that?

Your saying destruction comes AFTER destruction?


Your thief template isn't even remotely plausible.

So far,you are almost completely wrong.

I think there was one or two things you scored with PW.

You are GT CENTERED....anti pretrb,so it will be difficult to get a "watchful",circumspect take on end times.

Now the false spirit in you has you mocking Apostle Paul's words!

It's 1 Thess.5 by Paul that said when 'they' shall say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon 'them'.

He wasn't speaking of Christ's Church with that, he was speaking of the deceived during the tribulation. So where's your all out Darth Vader DEATH operation with those you keep adding to the Scripture? It's NOT there at ALL! Instead, Paul showed the deceived will be declaring a time of PEACE on earth, which just the OPPOSITE of what you've been saying!

 

[DP]

Like I said,you got a big job with Noah,ignoring the typology.

Ark=type of heaven

ENTERED PREJUDGMENT

Door was shut by GOD.

Hmmmm where in end times is a door shut?

10 virgin parable.

Ark rises into the clouds,when?

Lets go with after the flood and see if it fits....

UM,NOPE,IT WAS IN FACT DURING THE JUDGEMENT.

It is like you guys are making fools out of yourself and Jesus while mocking the word

YOU ARE THE ONE IGNORING THE MEANING OF THE DAYS OF NOE THAT JESUS SAID THE END WILL BE LIKE. IT WAS THE WICKED WHO WERE 'TAKEN', NOT NOAH AND HIS.

AND FOR YOUR FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTRINE TO FIT THAT, IT WOULD... MEAN THE ARK WOULD HAVE TO FLY AWAY! THAT'S HOW STUPID AND IGNORANT THAT PRE-TRIB ANALOGY IS.

AND THAT'S NOT EVEN TO MENTION HOW YOUR PRE-TRIB DOCTORS TEACH YOU TO BE THE FIRST ONE 'TAKEN' IN LUKE 17 AND MARK 13, WHEN JESUS SHOWED THE FIRST ONE TAKEN IS TO WHERE THE VULTURES WILL BE.

 

[DP]

Postrib,"the wicked are taken first"

Ok,where are the wicked removed,raptured,postjudgement,and taken to a battle?

Now don't forget you guys claim the church is also removed and taken to a battle.


Got confusion?

I don't adhere to what he is teaching on that. I adhere to Zephaniah 3:8 where God said He will assemble the nations to pour upon them His cup of indignation:

Zeph 3:8
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
KJV

Did you catch that, "Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey:" and "for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy"? What day is that? THE DAY OF THE LORD.

 

[DP]

This is for those who actually care... what God says in His Word through His servants about these events of the last days:

Apostle Paul taught "the day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night" (1 Thess.5).

Our Lord Jesus said He comes "as a thief", and for us to watch, and be careful to keep our garments, lest we walk naked and appear in shame (Rev.16:15).

Apostle Peter said "the day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night" in the which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall burn with fervent heat (2 Pet.3:10).

Apostle Paul also said two things must happen first PRIOR to the coming of the "day of Christ" (day of The Lord per the Greek) and Christ gathering His Church: 1) a great falling away, and 2) the false one revealed sitting in the "temple of God" showing himself he is God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped (2 Thess.2).

Our Lord Jesus revealed by direct statement that His coming and gathering of His Church happens AFTER the tribulation (Matt.24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27).

All those event order examples show the tribulation with the arrival of the false messiah and many falling away (being deceived) into bowing to him in false worship MUST OCCUR FIRST, prior to the time of "the day of the Lord" which is when Jesus will come to gather His Church and judge the wicked, ending this present world time.

So when is the time of "Peace and safety" the deceived will be proclaiming that Paul spoke of in 1 Thess.5? It is DURING THE TRIBULATION. That is even this following timing when the peoples on earth will rejoice at the death of God's two witnesses:

Rev 11:10
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
KJV

Those will be happy when God's two witnesses are killed in Jerusalem, because God's two witnesses will be prophesying against the beast's supposed mimic of world peace the deceived will be proclaiming in that time when all wars have ended. That is the time of great tribulation, which is not upon them, but upon the Faithful of Christ's Church that will not join in with those deceived who will be proclaiming "Peace and safety". It's because Christ's Faithful know what is to happen next to those:

Rev 11:11-14
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
KJV



Then boom... the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe and 7th Vial comes on "the day of the Lord", with Jesus' coming "as a thief" to gather His Church and pour out His cup of wrath upon those wicked.

 

[DP]

So when that time of "the day of the Lord" comes with the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe, where will those who trusted in men's lie of a pre-trib secret rapture be?

Since they teach they... are the first one taken in Jesus' parable of the two in the field, one taken and the other left, they will be among those deceived who will be saying, "Peace and safety", just prior to the "sudden destruction" that will come upon them that Paul said. That is where the first one 'taken' goes to during the tribulation, to where the vultures will be (Luke 17:37 NIV).

That destruction is coming on "the day of the Lord" with our Lord Jesus' second coming to gather His Faithful Church who wait for Him and thus are not deceived.