the rapture

DP · Dec 6, 2015

What has "jealousy" to do with why our LORD is going to do this on the day of Christ's second coming?:

Zeph 3:8
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
KJV

THIS IS WHY HE WILL BE JEALOUS IN THAT FUTURE TIME OF THE TRIBULATION:

Ezek 8:3-6
3 And He put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.
5 Then said He unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.
6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from My sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
KJV

That's what the beast of Revelation is going to plant there in God's earthly sanctuary in Jerusalem for the very end of this world. That's the "image of the beast" of Rev.13 all will be commanded to bow in worship to.

That event will not involve deceived Judah in Jerusalem only, it is especially to the "house of Israel" which is the ten lost tribes of Israel at this point in Bible history. The ten lost tribes, with Ephraim as head was to become "a multitude of nations" per Gen.48, and that's who the founders of the Western Christian nations were. So this will also involve the DECEIVED OF TODAY'S CHRISTIAN CHURCH IN THE WEST participating in this event in Jerusalem in our near future!

popeye · Dec 6, 2015

DP said:

And you just did what?

Ignore the obvious analogy with Noah as the ingredient of Gods dealing with his people

All you see Is "tribulation"

Tell us about Noah.
Tell us what became of him post flood,in relation to a postrib deliverance that you guys adhere to.

Will await that observation.

DP · Dec 6, 2015

popeye said:

You can just keep on waiting, with your bags packed and no place to go, when the sea roars around you and Jesus shows up to discover you have not obeyed His command to watch and not be deceived by the coming Antichrist.

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2015

Glad we agree on this point

.

The Wrath of God, as contained in the Vials, is poured out in close proximity to Christ's return. These Bowl or Vial judgments are SPECIFICALLY targeted (AIMED AT), the 8th BEAST EMPIRE and its followers. It is not aimed at the handful of Christians who remain (after the BEAST kills most of them).

God commands (WARNS) all His Saints still living in this part of the planet to "GET OUT" so that they will not be experiencing His wrath as we are told in Rev 18.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

So correct, we are not appointed to God's Wrath but we still have to listen and do what He tells us if you are one of the few remaining Christians left alive over there.

This is where you (and many others including Popeye) come completely off the rails. You are locating the 1 Cor 15:51-53 and 1 Thes 4:13-17 event BEFORE the Tribulation where NOTHING locates it there AND you have Christ returning there when it is GOD THE FATHER who returns there. Christ is already here and has been reigning for 1,000 years with the martyrs before this happens.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring (removed for clarity - "with Him") those who sleep in Jesus.

GOD WILL BRING THOSE WHO SLEEP IN JESUS!!

The rest of the dead (non- martyrs) do not live again until the 1,000 years are finished.

And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

John teaches us specifically that:

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for athousand years.

Thus it is a select group that returns with Jesus. Jude confirms that it is a limited number of Saints who return with Christ to execute judgment on the wicked:

“Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [SUP]15 [/SUP]to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

I submit to you that there are more than 10 thousands of saved in heaven.

Show me a passage that shows this. I don't see it in Mat 24 or any other place where the Return of Christ includes the living meeting Him in the air. Such a passage does not exist.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather (NOT RAPTURE) together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

He gathers His ELECT to Him and He comes to reign (actually rule with a Rod of Iron). He does not come to whisk people off the planet to avoid the Tribulation. The Tribulation is aimed at us. It is Evil vs. Good. The Wrath of God comes after the Tribulation and is Good vs. Evil and evil is put down.

So many get this wrong. At no point are living taken off the planet and transformed and taken to heaven. The living are not transformed until the final day of planet earth at which point both the earth and old heaven are destroyed and a new earth with heaven on it are created. This passage is so often misunderstood.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Jesus starts by telling us that His Father's house has many mansions (rooms). They are already built. Christ is not going to heaven to build them because He tells us the mansions (rooms) are there now as a matter of fact. At this point in Christ's ministry He is nearing the Cross. The preparation Christ needs to make is to die on the cross for our sins so that we (when we die) may enter heaven. Before this, dead believers were in Paradise, not heaven. After the cross when believers die, they go straight to heaven. Then Jesus tells us that when He returns, He is coming to us (the living believers) and He will receive us so that where He is (at this time back on earth to reign), we will be with Him, here on EARTH. Later in this same passage Jesus says this:

[SUP]28 [/SUP]You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’

He is coming back here. Nowhere does He tell us He is taking the living to Heaven. Such a passage does not exists anywhere in the BIBLE. There is no teaching of any living believer being snatched off to heaven (except for Enoch and Elijah).

Show me such a promise. Not being appointed to wrath and flown off the planet are two totally different concepts. One is not facing wrath if one is not where the wrath is happening. God would not have to command His people to leave the wrath area if He was taking them to heaven, would He? I showed you this verse:

“Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached[SUP][b][/SUP] to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

God's people would not need to leave if they were to be taken involuntarily, now would they?

The LORD in this context is GOD the FATHER, not Christ. Paul as a general rule will add "Christ" or "Jesus" to the word "LORD" when he is speaking of the Son. But when Paul just uses the word, "LORD" by itself, he is most often referring to the Father.

Peter teaches:

...the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

At the last moment, before this happens, all living saved mortals must be taken off the planet and transformed or they would surely be killed in this event. So either there is one rapture or two because there has to be a rapture just before the above happens.

Christ comes to reign for 1,000 years. During this time He defeats all His enemies and brings the whole planet into submission before Satan is released then finally destroyed. Then the old earth and heaven are destroyed and the new heaven is formed. This sequence is given in Rev 20 & 21.

And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison...

And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. [SUP]13 [/SUP]The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged. - The Resurrection and Rapture takes place right here. Daniel 12 confirms it, both saved and unsaved are resurrected and judged together at the very end:

And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.

Now we have the new heaven coming down in Rev 21:

21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

popeye · Dec 6, 2015

DP said:

I will assume you cannot address the comparison Jesus makes with Noah and lot.

It is pretty damaging to your position.

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2015

DP said:

Where are you getting this notion that Babylon the Harlot does not manifest herself until the pseudo-Christ arrives? Show me! The Harlot has been here since 630 AD. What's new is the radicalization of what some call a peaceful religion, although it is not peaceful; just ask 1.5 million martyred Armenians whom the Ottoman Empire killed. What is also new is the 8th Beast which carries the Harlot whom she will and is in the process of killing.

The Beast of the Sea (which "carries" Radical Islam) forms and comes to power 42 months before the "pseudo-Christ" appears. Rev 13 is pretty clear about this.

Where do you get that is happens in Jerusalem? It most certainly does NOT happen in Jerusalem and nothing points to that!!

I can only assume you are referring to the two witnesses of Rev 11? If John meant Jerusalem, he would have said Jerusalem. Instead he used the phrase "Great City which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt where also our Lord was crucified." Christ was literally crucified in Jerusalem not spiritually crucified there. The two witnesses are the two churches of the EAST and WEST (Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic). They are spiritually overcome by the BEAST.

DP · Dec 6, 2015

popeye said:

I already addressed that, but you pooped on it. So good luck with that.

DP · Dec 6, 2015

PlainWord said:

Your just too concentrated on Islam like some are too concentrated on a pope and Rome. I realize what Islam is, and the history of Mohammed.

You interpreted this wrongly:

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

That is telling literally where our Lord Jesus was crucified, which was Jerusalem. It is not about any spiritual crucifixion idea, which is what your interpretation actually makes it mean. That great city, which is Jerusalem because of the last phrase, is being compared... to Sodom and Egypt in the spiritual sense. That's a lot different than your idea. There is OT Scripture where God referred to Jerusalem in a fallen worship state as a pagan place (Isaiah 1 for one example when He was speaking to the rulers of Jerusalem). Metaphorical references to Jerusalem in a spiritual sense does not change its physical location.

That "great city" label is used 11 times in Revelation, and there in Rev.11:8 it's applied to Jerusalem at the end (tribulation), which means its also about Jerusalem in all the other cases except one. In Rev.21:10 it's about the New Jerusalem which comes down from God out of Heaven.

Per Matt.23:29-36, the blood of the prophets is upon those in Jerusalem who killed them, scourged them, and persecuted them from city to city. Jesus was speaking that to the scribes and Pharisees who sought to murder Him. (Not all the Pharisees were guilty in that. It's about the crept in unawares of Jude that crept in among Judah long ago per Bible history, as they represent the old pagansim of Babylon which is where the Canaanites got their Baal idol worship).

And like I've already shown, our Lord's prophecy about the coming pseudo-Christ is to Jerusalem, and not anywhere else. Well, he's not here yet today. That pseudo-Christ will claim to be our Lord Jesus. To the orthodox Jews, he will claim to be The Messiah they've been waiting for. To Muslims, he will probably be their Mahdi they'v been expecting, which is what they're doing jihad for, claiming it will help bring in his arrival.

God's two witnesses of Rev.11 will be two literal men, which is how they will have literal flesh bodies that are killed, and left laying in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days, as written there. And the fact that Rev.11 says all the nations will see... their dead bodies laying in the street for that means it will occur literally, and also the method for all the nations to be able to see them only happened within modern times with satellite technology.

Furthermore, it's the 7th beast king that will be that pseudo-Christ that's coming to Jerusalem. The 6th was in John's days, but the 7th one is tied to the time of those ten kings of Rev.17 that rule "one hour" with him. That pseudo-Christ is going to be the devil himself in Jerusalem, he is also the 8th beast king because that will be his role for the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign when he will be loosed one final time to deceive the nations to come upon the "camp of the saints". If you had paid attention to the events of Rev.12:7-17, you should know this already. But like many, I guess you think it too fantastic to consider. Yet I don't supposed you've even stopped to consider how that 7th could also be the 8th, and even of the previous 7.

Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Also, how... can that 7th beast king to come also be an 8th, and of the seven, AND... is already judged and sentenced today to perish into the "lake of fire", because that's what that "goeth into perdition" is about? As of today, the ONLY ones already judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire" is Satan and his angels.

So is the fact of Satan coming to Jerusalem as the pseudo-Christ a lot bigger than your Islamic idea being the beast? Yes, it is a whole... lot bigger matter. And that is why it is going to fool the majority of the world, including many Christian brethren. So the main event has not yet begun, because he is not here yet, but he's soon coming.

The majority can't even grasp the simple revelation of this which our Lord Jesus gave us plainly here:

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Who would be ascending out of the bottomless pit, hmm...? Santa Claus? No. Heckel and Jeckel? No. The pope? No. Mooney? No. Bhagwan? No. Nero resurrected? God forbid, no. The devil, Satan, "that old serpent", the accuser of our brethren, the false 'rock', Lucifer, the one which the secret societies of occult paganism worship.

popeye · Dec 6, 2015

DP said:

I centered on Noah,Lot.

You addresses the wicked only.

I challenged you to address my questions. You call it poop.

Either stand up or leave. All you are doing is playing little games.

ATH1 · Dec 7, 2015

Read and study the parable of the wheat and tares. It will tell you that the tares will be taken out first and burned and then the wheat will be put in the bin.
the rapture is satans last attempt to take Gods people by deceit reveryone is expecting satan to come warring like a crazy person, but satan is really coming before Christ and is going to do many wonderful things and many Christians are going to sign on to him THINKING he is Christ returned.

IF you think Christ has returned, just pinch yourself in the arm and if it hurts, Christ has not returned. When Christ returns all flesh is turned into their spirit body.
Don't be the one taken first, If you are,you were just taken by satan. God says "who will I find working in my field when I return" So learn...the one taken ist is taken to satan.

DP · Dec 7, 2015

That's correct, with all the miracles Satan will do on earth to fool the majority, he will not be able to mimic the change to the "spiritual body" "at the twinkling of an eye" on the "last trump" that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15.

If one is still in today's flesh body and thinks Jesus has returned when some say, "Lo, here is Christ, or there;" Jesus said, "Believe it not." (Matt.24:23).

The majority of the world today has been numbed as to the existence of the spiritual realm, having been taught to rely on man's materialistic technology and science. Hollywood has also played a huge role in that dumbing down about spiritual matters with all their false zombie and monster movies with creating a fake boogie man image to put fear in people's hearts so they won't understand nor believe God's Word about the appearance of real angels on earth in our earthly dimension. That is meant especially to help deceive the world against the coming event of Satan with his angels being cast out of the heavenly down to this earth in our earthly dimension, which is what the coming time of "great tribulation" will be about (Rev.12:7-17).

This is also why the majority have difficulty in understanding God's Word when He is pointing to Satan's original rebellion of old, when the devil drew a third of the angels to earth with him, long before this present world (Rev.12:3-4).

In that Rev.12:3-4 Scripture, we are shown in that time of old when Satan first rebelled against God, he had a beast kingdom of ten horns, seven mountains, but only seven crowns. That was his beast kingdom he originally rebelled against God with when he drew a third of the angels ("stars") with him. That means two thirds of the angels did not follow him, but stayed faithful to God in that time.

Then throughout Old Testament Bible history, Satan kept attempting a one-world kingdom on earth through his servants which God continually had to destroy while preserving His chosen elect. This last beast one-world kingdom that's almost complete today God is going to allow to be established just long enough to fool those who have not listened to Him about these things. In Matthew 24 when our Lord Jesus said we would hear of wars and rumors of wars, but the end is not yet, that means the very end when that final beast world kingdom is established here on earth in our near future, it will be a time when all wars have stopped, a time of world peace, but a fake peace.

God destroyed that time of old of Satan's original rebellion which was in a time even before Adam and Eve and man's fall in God's Eden. In Ezekiel God gave parables showing how Satan was originally exalted before he rebelled, and then how he tried to exalt himself as God.

In this last event of this present world, God is going to allow him to exalt himself on earth as God, in the sight of men, working great signs and miracles from Jerusalem. He will be given to deceive as many as will that have not listened to our Heavenly Father and His Son in His Word, but instead took pleasure in this world and the things of it from man. Satan is not coming with the appearance of a goat with horns wielding a pitchfork and wearing red flannel underwear. He is coming as a beautiful angel, for God made him the full pattern of the image of man.

Did you really think your Faith on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ would not actually be tested?

DP · Dec 7, 2015

Stonemason said:

Yes, the "spirit of antichrist" is already here, but in 1 John 2:18, he mentioned both about a singular "antichrist" they had heard was to come, and then also the "many antichrists" that John said were already at work.

1 John 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist (singular) shall come, even now are there many antichrists (plural); whereby we know that it is the last time.
KJV

Where did they first hear that antichrist shall come? Through our Lord Jesus' warnings, like Matt.24:23-26 and in the Gospel of John.

1. In the Greek of Matt.24:23-26, Jesus revealed a singular false one to come with Greek pseudochristos, which Strong's Concordance translates to 'a spurious Messiah' (no. 5580). The tense of the Matt.24:23 & 26 verse are singular also. He also linked that to the false one of the Book of Daniel that will end the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem and will place the abomination that makes desolate (an idol in the temple at Jerusalem).

2. In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Apostle Paul was speaking of a singular false one coming to sit in the temple of God, which is about the temple in Jerusalem.

3. In Revelation 13, Jesus showed the coming of a singular false one with the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward.

In all three of those Scripture examples, that singular false one is to work great signs and wonders on earth to deceive. They all are about the same final "antichrist" that John first mentioned they heard shall come.

Some false doctrines of men today have been trying to erase those Scripture facts about a coming singular antichrist/pseudo-Christ from God's Word. Their false doctrines originate from the devil's servants in order to prevent God's people from spiritually preparing for that coming pseudo-Christ who will appear on earth doing miracles first, prior to our Lord Jesus' second coming.

popeye · Dec 7, 2015

ATH1 said:

Read and study the parable of the wheat and tares. It will tell you that the tares will be taken out first and burned and then the wheat will be put in the bin.
the rapture is satans last attempt to take Gods people by deceit reveryone is expecting satan to come warring like a crazy person, but satan is really coming before Christ and is going to do many wonderful things and many Christians are going to sign on to him THINKING he is Christ returned.

IF you think Christ has returned, just pinch yourself in the arm and if it hurts, Christ has not returned. When Christ returns all flesh is turned into their spirit body.
Don't be the one taken first, If you are,you were just taken by satan. God says "who will I find working in my field when I return" So learn...the one taken ist is taken to satan.

The parable of wheat & tares is at the GWTJ AFTER THE MILLENNIUM.

LAKE OF FIRE? BURNED?

Very simple....look in the word for a group that is gathered and burned.

You are way,way off..

popeye · Dec 7, 2015

ATH1 said:

Read and study the parable of the wheat and tares. It will tell you that the tares will be taken out first and burned and then the wheat will be put in the bin.
the rapture is satans last attempt to take Gods people by deceit reveryone is expecting satan to come warring like a crazy person, but satan is really coming before Christ and is going to do many wonderful things and many Christians are going to sign on to him THINKING he is Christ returned.

IF you think Christ has returned, just pinch yourself in the arm and if it hurts, Christ has not returned. When Christ returns all flesh is turned into their spirit body.
Don't be the one taken first, If you are,you were just taken by satan. God says "who will I find working in my field when I return" So learn...the one taken ist is taken to satan.

First taken
1 thes 4
Mat 24
Noah
Lot
The baby Jesus

All first taken.

Even your misplaced parable(w & t) won't work,due to timing.

BTW, it even SAYS they are GATHERED TOGETHER

PlainWord · Dec 7, 2015

DP,

I focus on ISLAM because all of the evil in Revelation deals with ISLAM. ISLAM is the Harlot. She is the MOTHER of all False Religions and worship of False Gods. She fits every description to a tee. ISLAM was a mystery to John because ISLAM was founded in 630 AD. But ISLAM should be no mystery to us. ALL of Christian denominations make up 1/3 of the world. ISLAM makes up 1/4 of the world. NOTHING ELSE COMES CLOSE.

The seals describe the history of ISLAM and we are in the 4th Seal now which describes what we are witnessing in the news every day:

Revelation 6:8

So I looked, and behold, a GREEN horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

Pale is incorrectly used, it should be GREEN (Chloros). Green is the color of ISLAM and Green represents Paradise to Muslims. What do Muslims believe happens to them if they are martyred? They go straight to Paradise and receive 72 virgins, right? What is the above telling us really happens to them? HADES follows them. They kill by sword (warfare). They kill by hunger (the poorest countries are Islamic). They kill by death (Chemical/Biological/Nuclear) warfare which is coming. And they kill by Beasts (which are nations which sponsor terror).

The coffee is brewing and we as Christians had better wake up and realize these people are aiming to kill us everywhere they find us.

Jerusalem cannot be the location of Mystery Babylon because Mystery Babylon's Great City is utterly destroyed and we know Christ returns to Jerusalem and reigns from there and all people living there see him.

“Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

Can this be said of Jerusalem? If you think this is Jerusalem, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

No No NO!!! Compare and Contrast is used throughout Revelation. The Women in REV 12 is Israel. John recognizes her. The Woman in Rev 17 is the HARLOT, the false Jerusalem. John is amazed by her wickedness. So John sees two women, one he knows and understands, the other he does not recognize which is located in the wilderness and is wicked. Paul uses the same compare and contrast technique at the end of Galatians 4.

I used to think that too. If you think the men are literal then everything they do and what happens to them must be literal also. If you take the men literally then take the whole passage literally as well. So the men would be two olive trees and two lampstands? The men breathe fire?

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies.

So you see two dragon fire breathing men dressed as olive trees and lampstands scorching anyone who tries to harm them? Then you see a big hole opening up and a literal BEAST crawling out of it and killing them??? If so, you are missing the HARD AND FAST FACT that John is using OT symbols to disguise the truth so that only Christians can understand. I say the two witnesses are churches and they have the power of the Holy Spirit to do the things John describes. But it isn't literal fire that consumes, it is the TRUTH OF THE WORD. Here is the OT passage that John gets his symbols from:

Jeremiah 5:14

Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.

It may baffle you but the 7 churches understood. Remember what was seen at Pentecost, Acts 2?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Dividing tongues AS OF FIRE!!! THUS THEIR SPOKEN WORDS ARE AS FIRE WITH THE POWER AND TRUTH OF THEIR TESTIMONY AND OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST JESUS. Nobody could stand and oppose this power.

I'm sorry, I don't have any more time to address the rest of your reply. If your mind is open, let me know and I will continue sharing with you. Thanks.

DP · Dec 8, 2015

PlainWord said:

When Paul was speaking of the Jerusalem that is in bondage per Galatians, he was talking about this world in comparison with the heavenly Jerusalem which will come down out of Heaven from God. So Jerusalem is still the key, and that is where the Bible end time prophecies are pointing to, especially Revelation. Thus the Jerusalem on earth today is not the same as the New Jerusalem to come that the earthly one will be replaced with.

Revelation 13 has many direct parallels to the prophecies about Jerusalem that the prophet Daniel was given. You cannot just move all that to Mecca and Islam.

It's important to realize that Babylon is being applied to Jerusalem in the spiritual sense in Revelation for the end. It is Babylon that is destroyed in the spiritual sense, but with Jesus' coming the structures on the temple mount will be obliterated by His return to the Mount of Olivet, and the great valley formed there (Matt.24:3; Zech.14).

It is the world globalists that are causing the present situation with using radical Islam, so there is a greater international arm in power behind radical Islam that is using it. And the purpose is to prepare the world for the coming of the pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem. The leaders of the U.N. have tried to force the nations to give up their weapons so they cannot defend themselves against it, in order to bring the final war (but not final battle, for that Jesus will fight at the end). They have stirred up racial hatred between the races in order to create division so as to weaken the people's stand against it. What we are seeing today is leading up to the great contrast of chaos, so the nations will accept the coming pseudo-Christ and the time of "Peace and safety" that Apostle Paul said the deceived will be saying at the end. That is how the movers behind the U.N. used WWI and WWII, in order to force the nations into a collective to work towards one-world government. These events of today are just more of the same as you will see in time.

PlainWord · Dec 9, 2015

Partially correct, partially wrong. Paul was speaking of the Jerusalem in bondage and it indeed is different than the Jerusalem which comes down from heaven. Also correct that there are plenty of prophecies remaining for Jerusalem, both OT and NT.

Incorrect in thinking that the current (old) Jerusalem is the location of Mystery Babylon's Great City. When Christ returns at the beginning of Rev 18 He announces that Babylon has fallen. Then another angel announces several times the destruction of Babylon.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.

‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.’

For in one hour she is made desolate.’

“Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

The above describes a "Great (not because of size but wickedness) City" being destroyed by fire in one hour. The City will become desolate and not found. But the end is not here. New Jerusalem does not come down to replace this city because ship masters are standing off the coast and mourning her.

Burned with Fire
Destroyed in one hour
Made Desolate (uninhabited)
Found No More

Can this be said of Jerusalem? Jerusalem is going to go through a fierce battle and many will be killed. But it is not totally destroyed. Zechariah describes the scene in Jerusalem in Chapter 14 and Jerusalem is clearly identified where Babylon is not:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

In the above we see that half of Jerusalem is captured (Not utterly destroyed) and that a remnant of the people are still in the city!! We see a conventional war being fought, not utter destruction in one hour.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

Then we see that the Lord comes and fights in Jerusalem and stands on the Mount of Olives. If Babylon is/was Jerusalem there would be nobody there for the Lord to fight because we are told that Babylon is utterly destroyed, found no more and made desolate.

I am not moving Rev 13 to Mecca. Rev 13:1-10 deals with the Beast of the Sea located in the region of Iraq and Syria. There are several concepts or aspects of Islam being discussed. You have the BEAST which is a political power. You have the Harlot, which is the religion they follow then destroy. And you have the Great City which is the center of their worship. All of these point to ISLAM. The Jews are not going to destroy their faith.

Mat 24:2 dealt with the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD, not some future 3rd temple. I agree that if the Dome of the Rock is still standing by the time Christ returns, he will obliterate it.

This very well could be true.

Yet we continue to arm everyone in the middle east so that they can fight this final war. Banning guns in the US will never happen and if it does, we will have a civil war here.

Lawlessness abounds. We are in the time of the Beginning of Sorrows:

Matthew 24:12

And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

This lawlessness was already at work in Paul's day and continues. I submit to you that the unopposed killing of Christians and worshiping ISLAM is lawlessness.

PlainWord · Dec 9, 2015

Also very important to note and I'm sure you already know this. The Nations that come up against Israel relative to the Great Trib are Islamic Nations. Ezek 38 identifies them:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, [SUP]3 [/SUP]and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. [SUP]4 [/SUP]I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; [SUP]6 [/SUP]Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you."

Look at the map, these are all Islamic areas. Don't wait for some UN or European AntiChrist. The reality of the situation is already here.

DP · Dec 9, 2015

PlainWord said:

You're wrongly applying a spiritual metaphor in the physical sense. Like I said before, there's a reason why Jerusalem is compared spiritually to Sodom and Egypt in that time (Rev.11:8). It will be because of false idol worship there in the end, the very thing that began in ancient historical Sumer-Babylon that migrated to ancient Egypt, Greece, Persia, Rome, etc.

So when the world system comes to end on that day, so will Babylon applied to Jerusalem in the spiritual sense also be destroyed and never be found again. When our Lord Jesus returns, that will end the Babylon system upon this earth.

Rev.13:1-2 is about a kingdom beast. That's why in Rev.13:2 Jesus used the beast kingdom animals of Dan.7 in comparison with it. It's that 1st beast kingdom that receives the deadly wound, not the second or "another beast" mentioned later. Rev.17:15 is describing that first beast, a kingdom, and it will include all nations upon the earth. It's basically the one-world government system we're seeing being completed today, but it will turn into a world kingdom when the pseudo-Christ arrives in Jerusalem, as he will be king over it.

The Harlot of Rev.17 is the "great city" mentioned in the very last verse of that chapter. It does not represent a religion, it's about a certain city where the pseudo-Christ will reign the rest of the nations and peoples from. It will be Jerusalem, because that is where the "abomination of desolation" our Lord Jesus warned us about is to occur. For that "abomination of desolation" event to occur, it requires another Jewish temple in Jerusalem for the end, and sacrifices started up again. That will be the "temple of God" that Apostle Paul told us about the false one will sit in playing God (2 Thess.2:4). The orthodox Jews today have long since had the materials ready to build that third temple, even cornerstones cut.

If you're going to quote 2 Thess.2:7 but disregard my pointing you to 2 Thess.2:4 about the coming false one siting in the temple of God working great signs and wonders, then what lacking does that show on your part? We have to weigh all the Scripture prophecies about the end, not just a pick and choose.

DP · Dec 9, 2015

PlainWord said:

Russia just got caught sending more missiles to Iran. Russia built up their nuclear program. Russia is one of the main sponsors of Islamic terrorists, so how could you forget about all that???

The chief prince and Tubal are linked to the area of Russia, which is allied with Islam, and has for years been supporting Islam. The government of Russia is NOT... our friend.

The only part of the Ezekiel 38 prophecy that is not yet aligned is Turkey (Togarmah). Right now, Turkey is still allied with NATO. But I wouldn't be surprised that Russia and Turkey are just putting on a show, and actually are secretly allied together, along with the other Islamic nations.

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