Hyper grace

[james57]

The only difference from the Old to the New is this:

1) The written ordinances does not apply, the Moral does.

2) Jesus taught instead of focusing on all those written ordinances, all we are to focus on in Him is to walk in LOVE.

Love fulfills all because it does no harm to others, and Paul even said LOVE is greater than FAITH.

This is because as John put it those who do not love do not know God.

There is still a moral standard believers are to uphold.

You forgot to add the most important difference. Under the new covenant faith in Christ is the sole righteousness of the believer. It was under the old covenant righteousness was observing the law.

The standard the law sets is perfection, it is not pliable. That includes the moral law

Love fulfilled the law under the old covenant too!

 

[PeterJens]

In the end the basics are simple. If you cannot agree with repentance, there is little more that can be said.

You are still under judgement. Jesus and His sacrifice only work when we truly have accepted our position as totally unworthy, incapable in our own strength to walk righteously, but through His love to rise up victorious and walk in righteousness.

Now if you feel you are not able to walk in righteousness you are to confess your sins and repent and walk some more.
It is in discussing what the sins are, confessing and working out ways to bring about resolution do we break the bounds of slavery. If you think it is just believe and do not measure or respond to reality you accept a lie and walk in darkness.

The light that has been switched on is to truly show the connections between sin and behaviour, attitudes and problems, which can be resolved if brought into the light. It is often through seeing love in action we see how we fail.

 

[DP]

The OSAS debate again I see.

How many brethren realize that those of Christ's servants that do iniquity will NOT reign with Him over the nations when He returns, but will... be taught doctrine and their error? (Ezek 44; Isaiah 29).

Our Lord Jesus showed us this well enough, even with His example of the five foolish virgins that didn't have a 'spare vessel' of The Oil (Matt.25).

He also showed us this about the "unprofitable servant" in Matthew 25.

He shows us this too in Matt.7 about those who will claim they did many wonderful works in His Name, yet He shuts the door on them because they worked iniquity.

Does all that mean He will not save those who have believed on Him in finale? No, of course not.

It does mean though, the difference between those who will reign with Him, and those who will not.

Even in Rev.16:15 when warning His Church during the tribulation time, He said He comes "as a thief", and to be careful to keep your garments, lest we appear naked and in shame. That is a warning against those in Christ that fall away during the tribulation, that become deceived and instead follow the coming pseudo-Christ.

For one in Christ to be deceived and instead worship the coming pseudo-Christ instead of waiting for Christ's true coming afterwards, would those deceived deserve to reign with Him when He comes? No. That coming event upon the world is going to be the main trial for our generation. How many on OSAS can even see forward to that coming event upon us, even though He well told us about it in His Word?

This is why Apostle Paul told us to work out our Salvation in fear and trembling (Phil.2:12).

 

[james57]

In the end the basics are simple. If you cannot agree with repentance, there is little more that can be said.

You are still under judgement. Jesus and His sacrifice only work when we truly have accepted our position as totally unworthy, incapable in our own strength to walk righteously, but through His love to rise up victorious and walk in righteousness.

Now if you feel you are not able to walk in righteousness you are to confess your sins and repent and walk some more.
It is in discussing what the sins are, confessing and working out ways to bring about resolution do we break the bounds of slavery. If you think it is just believe and do not measure or respond to reality you accept a lie and walk in darkness.

The light that has been switched on is to truly show the connections between sin and behaviour, attitudes and problems, which can be resolved if brought into the light. It is often through seeing love in action we see how we fail.

You do accept righteous living/an ever holier life are achieved by faith in Christ, and the continued sanctification of Holy Spirit don't you?
It isn't what we can do, but what Christ will do through the Spirit if we trust him to do it

 

[Grace777x70]

I was wondering where you got the idea of only one time repentance? ..or about changing one's mind about any sins in the future...in the video he said that preaching repentance with the view for making people "continually conscious of sins" is not honoring the Blood of Jesus and His sacrifice. You got that one a little bit twisted in your thinking.

Because repentance is "changing your mind"..not turning from sins per se....altho the "fruit" of repentance will lead to a changed life. We don't turn away from sin...we turn to God. and His life in us changes us. I wrote already about this....

In the video he was saying that when you have your conscience purged of sin you would have no more consciousness of sin..in other words not being sin-conscious. The Hebrews writer was saying that if the blood of bulls could not take away the consciousness of sins. So, they had to continually offer those sacrifices repeatedly .

Hebrews 10:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?

It was John that told the Pharisees in Matt 3:8 to show fruit in their repentance which in their case was "being baptized to show they were sinners in need of a Savior too"..

Anyway I can tell you cannot "see" what is being said.

This reminds me of a time I heard someone say.." All counseling not based on the finished work of Christ is useless."

The response from the person this was directed to said.." You don't believe in counseling! " Now this person was told " all counseling not based on the finished work of Christ is useless " 5 times!

And even after the 5th time of being told the above...they still said .." you don't believe in counseling"

Obviously no matter was said...they already had in their mind what they "believed"....see the dilemma?

I watched the Joseph Prince video about repentance, and he is clearly off I a couple points.

For one Jesus did not give an example of a one time repentance. Nor does the bible say anywhere repenting of future sins dishonorable Jesus as Prince said.

The bible does however say continuing to be deliberately sinful does dishonor Him, because it days such people are trampling Him underfoot.

Also Jesus gave example of a person who sinned and each time came and repented, they are to be forgiven. No one time repentance mentioned in that passage.

Also Prince brought up 1 John 2 of Jesus being our advocate when we sin, but clearly left off the fact of the confession for the sins mentioned prior to that verse.

Confessing ones sins is a part of repentance, it is not just the watered down change of mind only version.

Jesus showed in Matthew 3:8 that a true repentance will show in our actions.

In other words if you repent but still continue to keep willing committing those sins it was not a true repentance.

 

[ladylynn]

In the end the basics are simple. If you cannot agree with repentance, there is little more that can be said.

huhh??? so you are saying that repentance means only one thing., you are disagreeing that 'a change of mind' is involved??


You are still under judgement. Jesus and His sacrifice only work when we truly have accepted our position as totally unworthy, incapable in our own strength to walk righteously, but through His love to rise up victorious and walk in righteousness.

There is NO judgement for the believer any longer because Jesus sacrifice took all judgment for our sin because we are totally unworthy to do any good works as lost unsaved sinners. When we got saved Eph.2:8-10 says For by grace are you saved through faith., and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD PREPARED BEFOREHAND THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM. Before we were born again, all our righteousnesses were as filthy rags., could count for nothing in the unsaved persons state. Only after we are made alive in Christ can we do any good works.

It is through Jesus Christ payment on the cross that we received His imputed righteousness. In Adam all sin., so we need to be born again and be IN Christ to be and do righteous. It doesn't matter how much we love God if we don't know how much He loves us. Our love is flawed., we need to learn the way to love. We love God because He FIRST loved us.




Now if you feel you are not able to walk in righteousness you are to confess your sins and repent and walk some more.

Not sure what you mean here. 'repent and walk some more'????


It is in discussing what the sins are, confessing and working out ways to bring about resolution do we break the bounds of slavery. If you think it is just believe and do not measure or respond to reality you accept a lie and walk in darkness.

working out ways to bring about resolution is how we break the bounds of slavery? Jesus already broke the bonds of slavery and we by faith believe it and by faith WALK IN IT. Jesus already measured up to the standard and 'we' walk IN HIS righteousness and it is then we can do righteous things because they are done IN Christ. 'for I am crucified with Christ..nevertheless I live.,yet not I but Christ who lives in me.. and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.

The light that has been switched on is to truly show the connections between sin and behaviour, attitudes and problems, which can be resolved if brought into the light. It is often through seeing love in action we see how we fail.

The rest of your post I'm just not able to make sense of Peter.

 

[KennethC]

The OSAS debate again I see.

How many brethren realize that those of Christ's servants that do iniquity will NOT reign with Him over the nations when He returns, but will... be taught doctrine and their error? (Ezek 44; Isaiah 29).

Our Lord Jesus showed us this well enough, even with His example of the five foolish virgins that didn't have a 'spare vessel' of The Oil (Matt.25).

He also showed us this about the "unprofitable servant" in Matthew 25.

He shows us this too in Matt.7 about those who will claim they did many wonderful works in His Name, yet He shuts the door on them because they worked iniquity.

Does all that mean He will not save those who have believed on Him in finale? No, of course not.

It does mean though, the difference between those who will reign with Him, and those who will not.

Even in Rev.16:15 when warning His Church during the tribulation time, He said He comes "as a thief", and to be careful to keep your garments, lest we appear naked and in shame. That is a warning against those in Christ that fall away during the tribulation, that become deceived and instead follow the coming pseudo-Christ.

For one in Christ to be deceived and instead worship the coming pseudo-Christ instead of waiting for Christ's true coming afterwards, would those deceived deserve to reign with Him when He comes? No. That coming event upon the world is going to be the main trial for our generation. How many on OSAS can even see forward to that coming event upon us, even though He well told us about it in His Word?

This is why Apostle Paul told us to work out our Salvation in fear and trembling (Phil.2:12).

Where do you get that from ???

The door being shut is inheritance to the kingdom of heaven, which is in the same as saying no eternal life.

Jesus clearly says the disobedient will be placed with the unbelievers, and it is not referring to the great tribulation. This is referring to at judgment.

Remember what Paul said about how it is possible to put one's faith in a false Jesus not of the bible.

For he said if the teachings do not align with what Jesus taught, then it is another gospel and another Jesus being taught that will not save.

Just because a person mentions the name of Jesus, we better test by the Holy Spirit and Word of God it is the true Jesus from God!!!

 

[Grace777x70]

OK...once more..here is a teaching on Jude 1:4 which talks about grace being a licence to sin... I will give it out again...sin = bad stuff!!!! Grace stops the bad stuff from happening!

Watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg

What Paul is saying there in Romans 14:22 is the same as he said in other places on being careful what we speak and teach.

For if we teach falsely we will bring condemnation on ourselves, but if we preach His truth we will save ourselves and those who are listening.
(1 Timothy 4:16)

God's grace is wonderful because it not only teaches us but also helps us by the Holy Spirit to walk according to the faith in Christ.

There are many examples in the NT the lifestyle standard born again believers will uphold, and warnings to disobedience if not !!!

God's grace does not allow lewdness !!!

 

[ladylynn]

Ephesians 3:19-21 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly beyond all that we can ask or think, according to the POWER THAT WORKS WITHIN US.
to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever.,Amen

 

[Grace777x70]

It is absolutely impossible to watch all of this video on repentance based on God's grace to say grace people do not "repent"..or that it is a licence to sin..impossible!...People..take a look..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVIE1ccoxJE

Very much enjoyed that message. "Christ redeemeth sinful men" Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

Because repentance is "changing your mind"..not turning from sins per se....

Let us look at this statement. It is not saying repentance is repenting as is clearly laid out in scripture but teaching a new ethic or framework. Worse still rather than dealing with sin it is removing the effect of sin on ones conscience.

Let me use biblical terms, this is destroying your conscience and its effect on your soul. Jesus called this searing the conscience, burning it out. It leads to hypocracy, because it is your conscience that is part of how you know what is a problem in your life.

This is death to moral reality. However you spread this kind of teaching you are destroying righteousness by destroying the ability of people to tell what is good behaviour and what is not.

The only people who would preach these ideas hate righteousness. True righteousness is simple, it brings life, preserves life. Now if you live to impossible goals or self condemnation ofcourse you reject this idea, but love and justice is real life.

Grow up in condemnation and failure with a belief no one can walk in righteousness, then leap over into acceptance by denying guilt and repressing ones conscience. Neither approach is good, but comes from not following the simple principles of walking with Jesus.

 

[Grace777x70]

Let's look at it through what scripture ahs to say about repentance concerning preaching the gospel. I know we have been taught differently through our religious upbringing and beliefs handed down to us. Let's let God's word speak life to us.

Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..no repentence used

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
They were not told to "repent" here. I love how the Holy Spirit "falls upon " them as soon s they hear about the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to them because of Christ!

Peter got in trouble with the jewish Christians when he went back...he says in Acts 11:17,18

Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

What was there repentance?...they changed their mind toward God and had faith in Jesus.

Notice that it was God that granted them repentance. New Covenant repentance is not something we conjure up on our own nor is it a work we produce.

2 Tim 2:24-25 says that God may grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. God grants the repentance..not a work we do on our own.

Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Again ..no telling them to "repent"...but Paul did tell them .." urged them to continue in the grace of God"

Both of the examples we have of New Covenant preaching about the gospel of grace had NO words of telling people to repent.

These clearly show that "repentance " was not told to them

So, another point..does repentance mean to be sorrowful for your sin? Judas "repented "

Matthew 27:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

The word used here for "repent" is not the same word for normally used for repentance ( which is = change your mind in greek )..the word used here is completely different..it means to be sorrowful.

So, repentance does not mean "turn from sin '..it means change your mind and turn to God and believe in Jesus and hat He has done.

There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us.

We do not say it's ok to sin...grace says the exact opposite...and maybe no matter how many times we say it..people will only "hear" what they want to believe.

We all need to repent every day as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!

Brethern ...I urge you to believe in the awesome greatness and splendor of our Lord's magnificent finished work on our behalf!

 

[Grace777x70]

Luke 24:45-47 (NASB)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] Then He ( Jesus ) opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
[SUP]46 [/SUP] and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
[SUP]47 [/SUP] and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Jesus Himself says.....that repentance ( change your mind and trust in Him and what He has done for you ) for forgiveness of sins ( believe that He took all your sins at the cross )

John 1:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Jesus took all the sin away..believe in Him and what He has done. Repent!


Acts 20:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

...repentance ( change your mind toward God..that you will depend only on Him and have faith in the Lord Jesus' perfect work for you )

We have a great salvation in HIM!

 

[DP]

Where do you get that from ???

The door being shut is inheritance to the kingdom of heaven, which is in the same as saying no eternal life.

Jesus clearly says the disobedient will be placed with the unbelievers, and it is not referring to the great tribulation. This is referring to at judgment.

Remember what Paul said about how it is possible to put one's faith in a false Jesus not of the bible.

For he said if the teachings do not align with what Jesus taught, then it is another gospel and another Jesus being taught that will not save.

Just because a person mentions the name of Jesus, we better test by the Holy Spirit and Word of God it is the true Jesus from God!!!

Apparently you do not understand what Christ's future "thousand years" is for. Read Ezekiel 13 where God will tear His people out of the hands of false prophets that teach His people to fly to save their souls. Read Ezekiel 44 about the Levites who went astray when Israel went astray, and how they will be assigned menial duties in God's House during the future Millennium in bearing their iniquity during the future time, and will not be allowed to approach Christ in that time.

Read and understand what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 that Israel in part has been "blinded" so The Gospel could go also to the Gentiles, yet God's gifts of calling are without repentance (means He will not take His promises back that He made to Israel). Then understand that means God blinded them for His greater purpose. And since God is Who blinded them, how can they be held accountable for being deceived out of ignorance? In the Millennium they will be taught, and will come out of that blindness to The Gospel, for God will remove it so they might 'see' with spiritual eyes, and hear with spiritual ears. That is when the unbelieving Jews will mourn for Christ like a long lost son (Zechariah).

 

[PeterJens]

Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..no repentence used

This is childish and insane.

The whole of scripture is about sin, the sin of man in their hearts, their lack of understanding and communion with the Lord, their desire to follow their lusts which lead to death.

The temple is about recognition of sin, and offering sacrifices to take away the punishment and effect of sins.

The gospel is preached "Repent and believe"

But now repentance is old covenant and new covenant because the writer did not say they repented, it means you just need to change you mind about God and believe.

This is so simple and so simply wrong.

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Acts 2:38


In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Acts 17:30


I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
Acts 20:21


he Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9


Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
Rev 2:5


I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.
Rev 2:21


The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
Rev 9:20

Repentance is preached before Jesus, by Jesus and after Jesus. If anyone cannot simply read this consistency then they no longer understand language meaning. But hey, if you cannot understand this and have a spirit of blindness, who am I to suggest the Lord has not given you over to spiritual blindness.

 

[james57]

I'm not sure Cornelius is a good example to give as to support the belief repentance is not needed. He was a righteous and God fearing man who prayed and gave gifts to the poor. He was not someone who had been following what we can term a sinful lifestyle who didn't want to follow God.
Peter went to see him to preach the good news of Christ. Cornelius could hardly be expected to repent for not previously being taught what Peter went to teach him

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'm not sure Cornelius is a good example to give as to support the belief repentance is not needed. He was a righteous and God fearing man who prayed and gave gifts to the poor. He was not someone who had been following what we can term a sinful lifestyle who didn't want to follow God.
Peter went to see him to preach the good news of Christ. Cornelius could hardly be expected to repent for not previously being taught what Peter went to teach him

So were the Jews and men of Israel whom Peter told to repent at Pentecost. They were in Jerusalem for a reason.

Repentance means to hear, hearken, to the voice of GOD, and turn away from one's own ways to receive the truth. That is exactly what Cornelius did. He hearkened to the voice of GOD, obeyed it, and then received the truth through the mouth of Peter.

 

[james57]

So were the Jews and men of Israel whom Peter told to repent at Pentecost. They were in Jerusalem for a reason.

This man was handed over to YOU by Gods set purpose and foreknowledge ; and YOU with the help of wicked men put him to death by nailing him to the cross
Acts2:23

Would the above not be something to repent of?

Was Cornelius, a gentile ultimately responsible for Christ being crucified?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This man was handed over to YOU by Gods set purpose and foreknowledge ; and YOU with the help of wicked men put him to death by nailing him to the cross
Acts2:23

Would the above not be something to repent of?

Was Cornelius, a gentile ultimately responsible for Christ being crucified?

Individually, most of them had nothing to do with Christ's death. Peter was speaking of their corporate responsibility as a nation. They heard/hearkened, obeyed and believed just like Cornelius did.

 

[Grace777x70]

Repentance is always needed!....repentance is changing the mind to turn to God.

Cornelius did not have the righteousness of Christ...he needed to get saved just like all of us.
The whole point was to show that the "repent" was not preached either in Peter's case or in Paul's case..it is not in the preaching of the gospel...we preach Christ and Him crucified.

It is hard for us to think in terms of "people not repenting"..but in reality they are repenting because they are "changing their minds ) and turning to God. I know..becasue it messed with my head when I first heard it....lol

I'm not sure Cornelius is a good example to give as to support the belief repentance is not needed. He was a righteous and God fearing man who prayed and gave gifts to the poor. He was not someone who had been following what we can term a sinful lifestyle who didn't want to follow God.
Peter went to see him to preach the good news of Christ. Cornelius could hardly be expected to repent for not previously being taught what Peter went to teach him