Hyper grace
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L
The good news of the Gospel is not only for when we first get delivered from the penalty of sin and are reconciled to God through Christ, but is it is the gift that keeps on giving. Any teaching that explores this reality is for me!!
When we have real repentance and our minds have changed it is then that genuine transformation takes place. Religion can't bring about heart change. A religion that is centered in self and fear and man centered contrition and weeping about how sorry he is sounds good but will not bring about a real living heart change but maybe and sometimes brings a temporary change using human will that soon exhausts itself. Sure, many in the church don't sleep around and are not outwardly showing sin but many have tongues like whips in gossip that demolish another brother or sister in Christ., or they have no self discipline when it comes to the flesh and over eat or over medicate or over compensate. It's all flesh relying not Christ relying. That kind of change is in reality a trap for people who get in this revolving door of sinning, hating sin and for a while stopping it but then falling into it again because they have not had a heart change. "A cycle of defeat and hypocrisy"
A believer who lives like this has a soul that is vexed and is groaning for freedom looking for a way OUT. That is what Paul was talking about in Romans about the good he wants to do he can't and the bad he wanted to stop he couldn't.
The freedom he needed and got is to KNOW God has ALREADY forgiven him. This is what so many here on this thread are fighting. The very truth that frees a Christian is denied and seen only from a human standpoint that we are saying you can sin all you want and not be in any trouble. As if Paul was looking for a way to sin and get away with it?? no., he sought a way to be delivered from it.
His answer and ours is to receive the GIFT of no condemnation that has already been given to as a 'son' and to "walk in HIS righteous identity to new levels of victory over sin" Too many of us Christians have been or are stuck in the idea that repentance is like what Judas tried and failed at. That man was sorry for what he did but he was not accepting the remedy for sin. Had he waited and didn't hang himself to try and pay for his sin in his hopelessness he could have received forgiveness like Peter. He had been around Jesus all this time and yet didn't understand the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. The devil came in and took all hope from him and the guy killed all hope of being redeemed when he hung himself. Confusion to the point of no hope. Plus Judas did not have the HolySpirit like we do.
But the battle is in our minds as well. As I've heard preached before 'right believing causes right living'
As Christians, when wrong thoughts come into the mind our 1st line of defense is the repentance and change of mind that we do not have to OWN every thought that comes into our minds. Those evil thoughts or ideas that go against the knowledge of Christ are not ours because Jesus has paid for us to have a new heart. Now we can INSTEAD continue to establish our security in our identity in Christ. We are no longer prisoners to the flesh. We can now fill our mind with His thoughts, His Word, His peace, His joy and His love. We are told to walk IN Him to see ourselves IN Him.
Gal.2:20 "For I am crucified with Christ (in Him I have shared His crucifixion); it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me."
These verses in context have the power to change our minds and take away our guilt and shame and bring about lasting change of heart. In vs 21 is says... Therefore, I do not treat God's gracious gift as something of minor importance and defeat its very purpose); I do not set aside and invalidate and frustrate and nullify the grace (unmerited favor) of God. For if justification (righteousness, acquittal from guilt) comes through (observing the ritual of) the Law, then Christ (the Messiah) died groundlessly and to no purpose and in vain. His death was then wholly superfluous." Amplified Bible
The truth is there for us to see but we sooo miss it. Reading on in Gal.5 it says how silly and thoughtless those Galatians were because they were started by grace and yet sought to be perfected by law. Just like so many of us today.
When we have real repentance and our minds have changed it is then that genuine transformation takes place. Religion can't bring about heart change. A religion that is centered in self and fear and man centered contrition and weeping about how sorry he is sounds good but will not bring about a real living heart change but maybe and sometimes brings a temporary change using human will that soon exhausts itself. Sure, many in the church don't sleep around and are not outwardly showing sin but many have tongues like whips in gossip that demolish another brother or sister in Christ., or they have no self discipline when it comes to the flesh and over eat or over medicate or over compensate. It's all flesh relying not Christ relying. That kind of change is in reality a trap for people who get in this revolving door of sinning, hating sin and for a while stopping it but then falling into it again because they have not had a heart change. "A cycle of defeat and hypocrisy"
A believer who lives like this has a soul that is vexed and is groaning for freedom looking for a way OUT. That is what Paul was talking about in Romans about the good he wants to do he can't and the bad he wanted to stop he couldn't.
The freedom he needed and got is to KNOW God has ALREADY forgiven him. This is what so many here on this thread are fighting. The very truth that frees a Christian is denied and seen only from a human standpoint that we are saying you can sin all you want and not be in any trouble. As if Paul was looking for a way to sin and get away with it?? no., he sought a way to be delivered from it.
His answer and ours is to receive the GIFT of no condemnation that has already been given to as a 'son' and to "walk in HIS righteous identity to new levels of victory over sin" Too many of us Christians have been or are stuck in the idea that repentance is like what Judas tried and failed at. That man was sorry for what he did but he was not accepting the remedy for sin. Had he waited and didn't hang himself to try and pay for his sin in his hopelessness he could have received forgiveness like Peter. He had been around Jesus all this time and yet didn't understand the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. The devil came in and took all hope from him and the guy killed all hope of being redeemed when he hung himself. Confusion to the point of no hope. Plus Judas did not have the HolySpirit like we do.
But the battle is in our minds as well. As I've heard preached before 'right believing causes right living'
As Christians, when wrong thoughts come into the mind our 1st line of defense is the repentance and change of mind that we do not have to OWN every thought that comes into our minds. Those evil thoughts or ideas that go against the knowledge of Christ are not ours because Jesus has paid for us to have a new heart. Now we can INSTEAD continue to establish our security in our identity in Christ. We are no longer prisoners to the flesh. We can now fill our mind with His thoughts, His Word, His peace, His joy and His love. We are told to walk IN Him to see ourselves IN Him.
Gal.2:20 "For I am crucified with Christ (in Him I have shared His crucifixion); it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me."
These verses in context have the power to change our minds and take away our guilt and shame and bring about lasting change of heart. In vs 21 is says... Therefore, I do not treat God's gracious gift as something of minor importance and defeat its very purpose); I do not set aside and invalidate and frustrate and nullify the grace (unmerited favor) of God. For if justification (righteousness, acquittal from guilt) comes through (observing the ritual of) the Law, then Christ (the Messiah) died groundlessly and to no purpose and in vain. His death was then wholly superfluous." Amplified Bible
The truth is there for us to see but we sooo miss it. Reading on in Gal.5 it says how silly and thoughtless those Galatians were because they were started by grace and yet sought to be perfected by law. Just like so many of us today.
Here are some notes from Andrew Wommack....I tend to think Paul was just describing a condition but maybe it's saying a few things? I have no problem reconciling anything in Romans 6,7 or 8 within myself..but..hey..the good news is that we are free in Chapter 8! Praise God.
Note 7 at Romans 7:14: This is why the Law could not produce life for us. It is because the Law is spiritual, but we are carnal. Another way of saying this is, the Law is perfect, but we aren’t. If we could have lived up to every detail of the Law, then we could have obtained salvation through it. But all have sinned and come short of God’s perfect standard (Romans 3:23), all except for one, and that is Jesus.
The Law did provide life for one man, the man Christ Jesus, because He was the only man who was ever perfect. Jesus was without any sin whatsoever, and therefore He deserved eternal life as a payment, not a gift. Those who put their faith in Jesus as their Savior benefit from His keeping of the Law (Romans 8:4).
Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.
Note 7 at Romans 7:14: This is why the Law could not produce life for us. It is because the Law is spiritual, but we are carnal. Another way of saying this is, the Law is perfect, but we aren’t. If we could have lived up to every detail of the Law, then we could have obtained salvation through it. But all have sinned and come short of God’s perfect standard (Romans 3:23), all except for one, and that is Jesus.
The Law did provide life for one man, the man Christ Jesus, because He was the only man who was ever perfect. Jesus was without any sin whatsoever, and therefore He deserved eternal life as a payment, not a gift. Those who put their faith in Jesus as their Savior benefit from His keeping of the Law (Romans 8:4).
Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.
He was expounding the impossibility of serving God in our own power, whether lost or saved. The flesh (see note 3 at Romans 7:18) is unwilling and unable to fulfill the Law of God, and if we as Christians try to fulfill the righteousness of the Law through our own will power, we will fail just the same as unregenerate people would. Paul was describing the futility of trying to obtain favor with God through our own goodness whether Christian or non-Christian. That has been the theme throughout the book of Romans.
Paul only used the term “spirit” once in Romans 7 (Romans 7:6), a chapter that described the hopelessness of people to ever keep the righteousness of the Law in their own strength. In contrast, the word “spirit” (or “Spirit”) is used twenty-one times in Romans 8, a chapter that gives the answer to the hopelessness of Romans 7.
In these verses of Romans 7, He was contrasting the complete inability of people to save themselves because of their corrupted flesh (see note 3 at Romans 7:18) versus the life-transforming power of Christ described in Romans 8.
The Apostle Paul was not living a life of constant failure where the good that he wanted to do, he was unable to accomplish, but the evil that he didn’t want to do, he did. He wasn’t living that kind of life because it was no longer him living, but Christ living in him (Galatians 2:20). Christ in Paul was manifesting holiness in Paul’s life that was second to none.
However, if Paul had abandoned his dependency upon Christ and had started trying to live the Christian life out of his own resources, then the condition described in Romans 7:15-24 would have been his experience.
Our flesh has been corrupted through sin, and though we can renew our minds through God’s Word (Romans 12:2), we can never elevate our flesh to a place where it can fulfill the Law of God. Hence, the good news of Romans 8 that what the Law couldn’t do, because of the weakness of our flesh (Romans 8:3), God did for us, and all we have to do is receive by faith.
Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.
Paul only used the term “spirit” once in Romans 7 (Romans 7:6), a chapter that described the hopelessness of people to ever keep the righteousness of the Law in their own strength. In contrast, the word “spirit” (or “Spirit”) is used twenty-one times in Romans 8, a chapter that gives the answer to the hopelessness of Romans 7.
In these verses of Romans 7, He was contrasting the complete inability of people to save themselves because of their corrupted flesh (see note 3 at Romans 7:18) versus the life-transforming power of Christ described in Romans 8.
The Apostle Paul was not living a life of constant failure where the good that he wanted to do, he was unable to accomplish, but the evil that he didn’t want to do, he did. He wasn’t living that kind of life because it was no longer him living, but Christ living in him (Galatians 2:20). Christ in Paul was manifesting holiness in Paul’s life that was second to none.
However, if Paul had abandoned his dependency upon Christ and had started trying to live the Christian life out of his own resources, then the condition described in Romans 7:15-24 would have been his experience.
Our flesh has been corrupted through sin, and though we can renew our minds through God’s Word (Romans 12:2), we can never elevate our flesh to a place where it can fulfill the Law of God. Hence, the good news of Romans 8 that what the Law couldn’t do, because of the weakness of our flesh (Romans 8:3), God did for us, and all we have to do is receive by faith.
Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.
L
I enjoy A.Wommack's commentary too. Although not sure about this part here about Jesus deserved eternal life as a payment.. Just never thought of Him that way since He is God and the whole 'propitiation' meaning. But just never heard of it put like that before. God is never in a position to deserve anything since that goes without question right?. Since Jesus never sinned and had no sin nature he not only wouldn't sin He couldn't sin. He didn't deserve to die in the first place so he didn't need to deserve eternal life since He IS eternal life. So in that way I don't really know how to take A.Wommacks commentary on this.
From what I remember about the word 'propitiation' is God became the answer to His high standard so He Himself gave us the answer. It was His standard and He met it... isn't that the meaning of propitiation?
L
I'm not sure if what Andrew says helps or not...lol..it's always good to hear what others have to say..I think anyway..
I'm open for learning new things....
I'm open for learning new things....
Yes, it is good to find out what these excellent teachers believe and it is also encouraging even if they do not agree with us 100%. For instance AW doesn't believe in the rapture of the church and I do. For me knowing this truth is encouraging and helpful in the walk here on earth. And the Bible says to encourage one another with these words. So although men of God know much more about the Bible than I do, it's cool to still be able to stand on my own faith and not have to agree with every thing someone says but still respect them and still learn from them.
Personally I can't understand how so many Christians do not accept the coming of Christ for His church and the looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Why so many believers think we will go through the tribulation when Christ has already taken the wrath of God upon Himself for us. Just like Noah and the Ark they were spared. Didn't go through judgment. There are so many pictures in the OT.