Hyper grace

[ladylynn]

Again deny it all you like, but it is taught.

Just because you hSmithave not seen just means you need to get around more.

Preachers who preach this way are not hard to find.

Also as for bringing up Joseph Prince I use to watch him a lot until he said two things contradictory to scripture.

He said the Holy Spirit does not convicted believers when they sin, and he did say we can live however we want.

He also uses the gospel as a means to financial gain, and there is a clear warning for doing that.

Sad to say you have not listened to Joseph Prince enough to hear what he preaches. If you took the time to listen you would hear what he said and not what you thought he said. He never said the Holy Spirit doesn't convict the believer., He convicts the believer of righteousness.

I have posted here about grace, and do not believe we can live however we want., quite the contrary.,but people can't help but think if your not scared you won't follow Christ. There is no fear in love, perfect love casts out fear. If you need to fear God will take away your salvation if you don't measure up as a Christian how can you have peace? If you need to be afraid of God zapping you in order to follow Him and love Him back, what kind of love is that? The love and grace of God constrains us and teaches us., it doesn't scare us.

Lasting change cannot happen if you are afraid of your salvation being taken away. I heard a preacher talking about how people when they are attacked in a community or in a nation, the church attendance goes WAAAAY up. But then as the weeks go by., the people go back to their same old behavior. Fear does not cause lasting heart change.

Change comes through a revelation of God's steadfast love for us in His Word. When we know He loves us we can rest in security and walk in freedom to do His will from the heart. We can mount up with wings as eagles, we will walk and not be weary.

I disagree with you about selling books to be a sin. God has blessed the ministry so much Prince doesn't take a salary from his church. He lives off his own books. God has truly blessed him and continues to do so. As He does all who do His will and use their gifts for His glory..Blessed to be a blessing. The Lord is my Shepherd.. I shall not want. Some believers are living out their faith. To be angry with brothers and sisters in Christ for being blessed is not profitable. It reminds me of the older brother and the Prodigal son. The older brother got mad that the younger one was blessed and didn't deserve it. God can bless however He wants and whoever He wants. Who are we or anyone to judge that?

 

[ladylynn]

But does everyone listen to their conscience? What happens if you don't listen?

Hi JFSurvivor., When reading your post here i was reminded of a verse I think is in Proverbs..
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart., and LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING., in all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths."

It's comforting to know that our thoughts are not always right. God's Word says His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. So reading the Bible is vital so our minds can be like His AND we can know how to walk and how to think. We can be sincere in our thoughts but we can be sincerely wrong at times as well if we don't have the mind of Christ leading our thoughts. AND He promises us that if we acknowledge Him in all our ways in life, He WILL direct our paths. wow.,Blessings.

 

[ladylynn]

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[TD="width: 100%"]Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]The Bible tells us that God breathed into man and he became a living being. (Genesis 2:7) It also tells us that all Scripture is God-breathed. (2 Timothy 3:16, NIV) This means that when you read the Bible or listen to God’s Word preached, you are imbibing the very breath of God which gives you life.
That is why there may have been times you walked into church feeling tired at first, but left at the end of the service feeling refreshed and energized. God’s Word had breathed life into your body! I have also seen many of our church members becoming healthier, stronger and even younger-looking because they spend time in God’s Word.
It is no wonder that Proverbs 4:22 tells us that God’s words are “lifeto those who find them, and health to all their flesh”. So if you are under the weather or if symptoms are attacking your body, double up on God’s medicine. Simply feed more on God’s Word, and you will find life and health flowing through your body again.
Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. If it is important to eat our meals every day, how much more feeding on God’s Word? Jesus wants us to know that we need God’s Word even more than our daily meals. He made us, so He knows best what our bodies need daily.
So whatever you do, remember to get your daily feeding of God’s Word. Read your Bible in the comfort of your home or in the office during your lunch break. Play sermon CDs while driving to work or doing household chores. If you prefer something more visual, watch DVDs on the preaching of His Word. Choose whichever form you prefer and get His Word into you!
Beloved, you cannot live when you stop breathing. In the same way, you cannot live without the Word because it is the very breath of God which gives you life and health.

Destined To Reign Devotional for 12/12



I have found this to be true. It's supernatural. It's not just words on a page., God kept His Word for us for all these years and whether its in reading or listening it changes life as we know it. [/TD]
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[james57]

Hi JFSurvivor., When reading your post here i was reminded of a verse I think is in Proverbs..
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart., and LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING., in all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths."

It's comforting to know that our thoughts are not always right. God's Word says His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. So reading the Bible is vital so our minds can be like His AND we can know how to walk and how to think. We can be sincere in our thoughts but we can be sincerely wrong at times as well if we don't have the mind of Christ leading our thoughts. AND He promises us that if we acknowledge Him in all our ways in life, He WILL direct our paths. wow.,Blessings.

Hi Lynn

I actually believe you have shown the best balance as it were of grace and obedience in this thread. I do not disagree with you at all about grace. But the grace Paul preached changed lives. His whole message was centred around victory over sin by living under grace not law
Where there has been divergence between me and grace in particular is in the following. If a person believes Paul spent the whole of his christian life unable to do the good he wanted to do, but rather only the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do, Paul's gospel message has been derailed. For such a person is definately not seeing victory over sin but remains a slave to sin

Therefore if it is said Paul is speaking of all his christian life in rom7:14-25 Paul's gospel message has collapsed

 

[ladylynn]

Hi Lynn

I actually believe you have shown the best balance as it were of grace and obedience in this thread. I do not disagree with you at all about grace. But the grace Paul preached changed lives. His whole message was centred around victory over sin by living under grace not law
Where there has been divergence between me and grace in particular is in the following. If a person believes Paul spent the whole of his christian life unable to do the good he wanted to do, but rather only the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do, Paul's gospel message has been derailed. For such a person is definately not seeing victory over sin but remains a slave to sin

Therefore if it is said Paul is speaking of all his christian life in rom7:14-25 Paul's gospel message has collapsed

I'm glad you think I've represented a balance on this topic of grace James.. But I still don't understand where you see anyone saying Paul had no victory in his life? He followed Christ and had a victorious Christian life in the new covenant of grace. God used him to explain to believers for generations to come as he wrote in the Bible how to have victory in the Christian life. Of course Paul lived victoriously as a believer because God showed him how Himself. Jesus stopped him on the road to Damascus and caused him to be blind for a while. He saw Jesus too. Paul finished his course and ran the race well.,he had a crown laid up (I'm at work don't have my Bible) There is no way anyone could say otherwise.

I see post after post saying this yet you still think somehow someone is saying "Paul spent the whole of his Christian life unable to do the good he wanted to, but rather only the evil he did not want to do" Where are you getting this from?

Anyway., be assured I am not saying what you are interpreting here. And I don't read it from Grace777 either or anyone else here for that matter. Maybe it's a topic better left for another time in your case? Blessings James!!

 

[james57]

I'm glad you think I've represented a balance on this topic of grace James.. But I still don't understand where you see anyone saying Paul had no victory in his life? He followed Christ and had a victorious Christian life in the new covenant of grace. God used him to explain to believers for generations to come as he wrote in the Bible how to have victory in the Christian life. Of course Paul lived victoriously as a believer because God showed him how Himself. Jesus stopped him on the road to Damascus and caused him to be blind for a while. He saw Jesus too. Paul finished his course and ran the race well.,he had a crown laid up (at work don't have my Bible) There is no way anyone could say otherwise.

I see post after post saying this yet you still think somehow someone is saying "Paul spent the whole of his Christian life unable to do the good he wanted to, but rather only the evil he did not want to do" Where are you getting this from?

Anyway., be assured I am not saying what you are interpreting here. And I don't read it from Grace777 either or anyone else here for that matter. Maybe it's a topic better left for another time in your case? Blessings James!!

I am getting this opinion from a plain fact
If people say Paul is speaking of his WHOLE christian life in rom 7:14:25, then what Paul describes of himself in those verses represents the state of Paul's Christianity the WHOLE of his christian life. I really do not understand why that is hard to comprehend. If I am totally honest, to try and circumnavigate Tha truth would suggest difficulty in reconciling ones beliefs on the subject

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hi Lynn

I actually believe you have shown the best balance as it were of grace and obedience in this thread. I do not disagree with you at all about grace. But the grace Paul preached changed lives. His whole message was centred around victory over sin by living under grace not law
Where there has been divergence between me and grace in particular is in the following. If a person believes Paul spent the whole of his christian life unable to do the good he wanted to do, but rather only the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do, Paul's gospel message has been derailed. For such a person is definately not seeing victory over sin but remains a slave to sin

Therefore if it is said Paul is speaking of all his christian life in rom7:14-25 Paul's gospel message has collapsed

Your understanding has collapsed; partly due, I'm sure, to your artificial categorization of Paul's life based on the chapter 7/8 designation. Why do you base your belief on cardinal Stephen Langton's Roman Catholic theology that influenced that designation in 1205 AD?

 

[james57]

Your understanding has collapsed; partly due, I'm sure, to your artificial categorization of Paul's life based on the chapter 7/8 designation. Why do you base your belief on cardinal Stephen Langton's Roman Catholic theology that influenced that designation in 1205 AD?

No my understanding hasn't collapsed. And i don't waste my Tim reading of cardinals theology.

It is a plain fact if people believe Paul spent the WHOLE of his christian life as described in rom 7:14-25 the must believe what Paul wrote of his life in rom 7:14-25 was a true reflection of the WHOLE of his christian life.
I suppose some who spend the WHOLE of their christian lives reading of cardinals theology and may other theologies may convince them selves they have found a doctrine to circumnavigate the simple truth, but that simply shows the futility of their misguided endeavours

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No my understanding hasn't collapsed. And i don't waste my Tim reading of cardinals theology.

It is a plain fact if people believe Paul spent the WHOLE of his christian life as described in rom 7:14-25 the must believe what Paul wrote of his life in rom 7:14-25 was a true reflection of the WHOLE of his christian life.
I suppose some who spend the WHOLE of their christian lives reading of cardinals theology and may other theologies may convince them selves they have found a doctrine to circumnavigate the simple truth, but that simply shows the futility of their misguided endeavours

If you believe that chapter 7 pertains to Paul's pre-Christian life and chapter 8 to his Christian life (as you have indicated to me that you do) then you have been misled by cardinal Langton's decision that was influenced by his theological view.

 

[james57]

If you believe that chapter 7 pertains to Paul's pre-Christian life and chapter 8 to his Christian life (as you have indicated to me that you do) then you have been misled by cardinal Langton's decision that was influenced by his theological view.

Lol I don't read of cardinal Langton or any other cardinal for that matter. I wouldn't waste my time with such things.

You cant admit the truth can you, which is testimony to you being wrong on this subject

 

[james57]

If you believe that chapter 7 pertains to Paul's pre-Christian life and chapter 8 to his Christian life (as you have indicated to me that you do) then you have been misled by cardinal Langton's decision that was influenced by his theological view.

Let me help you here. If you believe Paul is speaking of his WHOLE christian life in ch7:14-25 you MUST believe for the WHOLE of Paul's christian life he could not do the good he wanted to do but the evil he did not want to do, that which he hated he did.

Possibly you will find of some cardinals doctrine, or other theologians doctrine to seek to circumnavigate that truth, but all that shows is a futility of effort in order to try and convince yourself of the impossible

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Let me help you here. If you believe Paul is speaking of his WHOLE christian life in ch7:14-25 you MUST believe for the WHOLE of Paul's christian life he could not do the good he wanted to do but the evil he did not want to do, that which he hated he did.

Possibly you will find of some cardinals doctrine, or other theologians doctrine to seek to circumnavigate that truth, but all that shows is a futility of effort in order to try and convince yourself of the impossible

No, you MUST due to the limitations of your understanding.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Lol I don't read of cardinal Langton or any other cardinal for that matter. I wouldn't waste my time with such things.

You cant admit the truth can you, which is testimony to you being wrong on this subject

But you do waste your time on such things because you believe the chapter 7/8 designation means something.

 

[james57]

If you believe that chapter 7 pertains to Paul's pre-Christian life and chapter 8 to his Christian life (as you have indicated to me that you do) then you have been misled by cardinal Langton's decision that was influenced by his theological view.

Have any cardinals or theologians told you two things are required to live an evermore holy life and to the degree you follow them will result in the degree of holiness you see in your life.

You must follow the truth of grace in the fulness of the power of the holy spirit available to you, and you must put Christ first in your life in your heart.

I will be honest with you.

Thirty five years ago my life was in a dire mess, I cried out to God and he saved me from the situation I was in. For the following year Christ was totally first in my life, no distractions. The change I me in Tha year was remarkable, as others noted. Why? Because Christ was truly first in my heart, and I was not distracted from him

To my shame, after Tha Tim i allowed distractions into my life at tines, the change was no longer dramatic, often I stood still, sometimes I went backwards. Why, because Christ wad not having first place in my life.

Oh how it would be easy to have convinced myself Paul was talking as a christian in rom 7:14-25. I could have felt better about myself then, I have excuses for where I am at.
But that isn't my Christianity I am afraid. I have many faults, but hope I am honest with myself

 

[james57]

No, you MUST due to the limitations of your understanding.

I wonder which of us relies more on our understanding and which of us relies more on the holy spirit

 

[james57]

But you do waste your time on such things because you believe the chapter 7/8 designation means something.

Well if you think wasting my time is believing the description Paul gave of himself in romans 7:14-25 is not how he lived out his whole christian life, of course you are entitled to that view.
I may consider you waste your time by reading as much as you do of scholars, theologians, cardinals etc to formulate your opinions

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well if you think wasting my time is believing the description Paul gave of himself in romans 7:14-25 is not how he lived out his whole christian life, of course you are entitled to that view.
I may consider you waste your time by reading as much as you do of scholars, theologians, cardinals etc to formulate your opinions

This is one thing I assiduously avoid.

You still haven't addressed the issue that the chapter designations are artificial.

 

[james57]

This is one thing I assiduously avoid.

You still haven't addressed the issue that the chapter designations are artificial.

Oh its artificial now. Is Paul or is paul not speaking of his personal life and what takes place in it un rom 7:14-25

This is coming across u am afraid as trying to reason your way out of accepting the truth

 

[james57]

This is one thing I assiduously avoid.

You still haven't addressed the issue that the chapter designations are artificial.

The CHAPTER is artificial???

Dont you believe Paul is speaking of his time as a Pharisee in verses 7-11 ?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Oh its artificial now. Is Paul or is paul not speaking of his personal life and what takes place in it un rom 7:14-25

This is coming across u am afraid as trying to reason your way out of accepting the truth

Of course, it's artificial. Paul didn't make chapters.

It seems that you believe that Paul suddenly switched from being an avid law keeper to living perfectly by grace. Did you never consider the likelihood that he wrestled with the law after he was saved? He didn't start his ministry to the nations for approximately 17 years after his conversion, and the letter to the Romans came later.