Young Earth creationism

[eternally-gratefull]

Where did you read that I said I rejected the flood of Noah's day? You never read anything I've written saying that.

I believe the flood of Noah's day was definitely global. There's links in every ancient culture that mentioned it.

The difference with the flood of Noah's day is, God did NOT shake the earth like the Hebrews 12 and Jer.4 comparisons show. Instead in Noah's day, God brought rains and waters from the depths upon the earth to destroy His flesh part of creation off an existing earth. That's why only Noah and his family, and the animals aboard the ark were preserved. That was not a replenishing like the Gen.1:2 forward events.

ok forgive me, I must have mistaken you for someone else.

1. I do believe the earth shook at the flood, It was a catastrophic event, of which I doubt we will understand till we all get to heaven.
2. I believe as quite a few scientists have shown, everything we see today can be explained by that one major event (including plate tectonics, nuclear fission, the grand canyon, the fossils, and many many other scientific things with which we have wondered about for so many years.)
3. I do not believe gen 1: 2 was a replenishing event, I believe it is a creation event. Like many times in the bible. God made a statement of fact, He created the heavens and the earth. He followed that by giving a more detailed version of the creation account.

 

[DP]

yet it goes against your theory that God made us in a flawed state and not in a perfect state.

God creqted us for a purpose. to serve and love us, In order to do that, he had to give us free will.. Thus free will (the ability to chose) was a perfect state.

Free will is obviously important in order to express real love for Him, otherwise we would be like robots.

Have you not read that in final God is going to "create" Jerusalem a rejoicing and her people a joy?

Isa 65:17-19
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
KJV

The way I interpret that, is when Christ's future thousand years reign is over, and all those who reject The Father and His Son is manifest in final, and then they are destroyed, then He is going to make us, His servants, forget Satan ever rebelled against Him, and even make us forget sin and the things of this present world (Isaiah 65:17).

Nah 1:9-10
9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.
KJV

 

[tanakh]

Doesn't matter if you think scientists are behind some conspiracy with digging up the fossil remains showing an ancient earth. They have nothing to do with the creation of those fossil remains!

But I wonder, just who did create all those ancient fossil remains???

If God was their Creator, then shouldn't you consider why He left them for us to discover?

I once saw a cartoon based on this idea. It had a paleontologist admiring his newly discovered fossil and God in the sky
chuckling to himself having just planted it. The idea that Scientists are behind some conspiracy does not make sense.
Firstly a large percentage of the worlds population couldn't care less whether someone has found a fossil of stinkasaurus or whoever. Only creationists care about it. Secondly these fossils have been found for well over a century so why bother to keep manufacturing them now those who matter are convinced? Actually fossils had been known about centuries before
Darwin and Evolution but other explanations for them were given such as them being the bones of Giants.

 

[ATH1]

Now here is denominationalism, you could say scofieldism. That is not proven, biblically or otherwise.



yep more denominational thinking.

Yet you yell at us for following denominations?

(PS) the denomination I gre up taought the very thing you are bringing forth. I bought into it all hook line and sinker, and called anyone who tought otherwise a heretic who did not understand things..

NO NO NO. It is not denominational. It is just the opposite. It is just reading the bible and letting God interpret to you what it says. It is denominational if you learn what the church says it means ( like eating the apple) and MAKING the scripture fit a pre-determined thought.

Why did you change your mind if you taught this? Doesn't God revel to each of us what He wants us to understand?
If you were called to teach than God gave you a special gift.
Why did you stop teaching this? You know how hard it is for a human to read the instructions of a supreme being that speaks in the present past and future all at once? If God gave you this special revelation, you have been truely blessed.

humbly...allan

 

[DP]

ok forgive me, I must have mistaken you for someone else.

1. I do believe the earth shook at the flood, It was a catastrophic event, of which I doubt we will understand till we all get to heaven.
2. I believe as quite a few scientists have shown, everything we see today can be explained by that one major event (including plate tectonics, nuclear fission, the grand canyon, the fossils, and many many other scientific things with which we have wondered about for so many years.)
3. I do not believe gen 1: 2 was a replenishing event, I believe it is a creation event. Like many times in the bible. God made a statement of fact, He created the heavens and the earth. He followed that by giving a more detailed version of the creation account.

Ya know, I've looked and looked for a clear Biblical example of the shaking level mentioned at the end of Hebrews 12 in relation to the time of Noah, but I haven't found it. The Jer.4:23-28 and that end of Hebrews 12 Scripture is what made me do that research, because I also once thought it was about the flood of Noah's day.

Mind you, the LEVEL of shaking shown in the end of Hebrews 12 that happened once before is being compared to the level that will occur when God destroys man's works off this earth in our near future.

 

[DP]

I once saw a cartoon based on this idea. It had a paleontologist admiring his newly discovered fossil and God in the sky
chuckling to himself having just planted it. The idea that Scientists are behind some conspiracy does not make sense.
Firstly a large percentage of the worlds population couldn't care less whether someone has found a fossil of stinkasaurus or whoever. Only creationists care about it. Secondly these fossils have been found for well over a century so why bother to keep manufacturing them now those who matter are convinced? Actually fossils had been known about centuries before
Darwin and Evolution but other explanations for them were given such as them being the bones of Giants.

Just the fact that they exist in the fossil record is enough for me to know there was once a time on this earth when dinosaurs roamed it. But that along with different plant fossils with it adds up to more than just the idea of fossils, especially with such things found also at the earth's poles.

Giants, ah..., there's another mystery. There have been many reports of skeletal remains over 9 feet tall, we just don't hear about those discoveries much anymore because of the evolutionist/anti-Bible supported media.

I believe God's Word as written first and foremost. There is enough Scripture evidence to show those events once occurring upon this earth. Not seeing those things existing in our time today, but only the fossil and skeletal record, is not a means against their previous existence.

 

[ATH1]

My opinion,
In new testament, God gives us, in quite detailed words a land contract between the landowner and a relative. After 49 years, the original owner gets the land back. I pondered on why a land contract from 2000 years ago should have any relevance today. It came to mind, that this could answer why God allows evil to flourish and this is my dissertation on why evil is permitted here on earth.

God created his children, the angels, and as He states in Ez He created Lucifer and he was His greatest creation. Lucifer lacked for nothing. I am assuming, at some point, God gave Lucifer a land contract for earth as Lucifer probably was Gods right hand man in making the earth habitable for vegetation and animals. Lucifer drew a third of God's angels with him to tend to the earth and over time, began getting a swelled head and with agreement with the 1/3 of Gods children, they began thinking they could rebel and take over Gods seat!

In Job, God says all the angels sang in unison until inequity was found among the angels. This was not in Gods will and made a plan to bring things back to normal.
But there's a problem! lucifer/satan, had a contract. So God needed a plan to rectify this.

God had agreed to let Lucifer be in charge of the earth, until such time the contract was up. The bible states that satan is the prince of this earth. But God did not want this rebellion to go on. Gods plan was to acknowledge satan had a legal right to do evil on earth, but God through his wisdom, came to earth created a plan for repentance for the angels that might be sorry they sided with satan. So God had to (legally) let satan run amuck doing his evil works, but allowing those that will, to have a chance for salvation. God has to allow evil, but gives an alternate path for those that want it.

This is my short version opinion you asked for. I thank you for allowing me to share it with you. It is the only reason I can think of why God would allow evil to continue

discussion? humbly...allan

 

[DP]

The funny thing, ATH1, is that you've just congratulated DP for practising eisegesis (reading into the Bible), not exegesis (reading out from the Bible). That's not a quality method for Bible study, that's an extremely poor one. And yes, I believe the Bible says that we can now eat pork, shellfish etc. We live in the light of the New Covenant.

Grand swelling words, without proving anything against the Scripture I've provided, except a personal opinion. Using words like eisegesis and exegesis won't make others think you know what your talking about either.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Free will is obviously important in order to express real love for Him, otherwise we would be like robots.

Have you not read that in final God is going to "create" Jerusalem a rejoicing and her people a joy?

Isa 65:17-19
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
KJV

The way I interpret that, is when Christ's future thousand years reign is over, and all those who reject The Father and His Son is manifest in final, and then they are destroyed, then He is going to make us, His servants, forget Satan ever rebelled against Him, and even make us forget sin and the things of this present world (Isaiah 65:17).

Nah 1:9-10
9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.
KJV

I believe we will still have free will. And we will freely chose (based on history and even our own failures and experience of Gods love like no other) chose to never question God again.

 

[KJV1611]

No The Adamah in the garden was Gods race that jesus was to come through and satan had his angels procreating with the daughters of eth ha adamah or the adam in the garden to try prevent Jesus from being born through a pure priestly and kingly generation (lineage)

God was only happy with what 2 churches taught. Do you know what these 2 church's taught? Don't you think the churches that DON'T teach these 2 things should close their doors before next Sunday?

I bet if you ask your church what these 2 things God was happy about, they won't even know.

Think about this...what better place for satan to be than standing behind a pulpit in a church?? people sucking in everything that is said without question because he is a pastor-priest ect>. People are not going to have their preacher or their lawyer standing beside them at judgement.
We better study for ourselves.

So what is God talking about in Genesis 6 12-13?

Genesis 6:12-13 KJV
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. [13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

NO NO NO. It is not denominational. It is just the opposite. It is just reading the bible and letting God interpret to you what it says. It is denominational if you learn what the church says it means ( like eating the apple) and MAKING the scripture fit a pre-determined thought.

I read the bible and interpret what it says.
I do not come up with the same conclusions you do.


I just go by what I assume to be your interpretation of denominational (ie whoever does not believe as I do, as this appears to be the way your coming across..not saying you are, just saying that is what it sounds like)

Why did you change your mind if you taught this? Doesn't God revel to each of us what He wants us to understand?

Why do we change our minds about anything? We question it, Look it up. and find it not to be as true as we thought it was. We find things that would not make us agree with what we were taught.

If you were called to teach than God gave you a special gift.

Why did you stop teaching this? You know how hard it is for a human to read the instructions of a supreme being that speaks in the present past and future all at once? If God gave you this special revelation, you have been truely blessed.

humbly...allan

I stopped teaching it because I find decided that many things I was taught were not true, and this to be one of them..

Why should I teach something I can not see as true?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ya know, I've looked and looked for a clear Biblical example of the shaking level mentioned at the end of Hebrews 12 in relation to the time of Noah, but I haven't found it. The Jer.4:23-28 and that end of Hebrews 12 Scripture is what made me do that research, because I also once thought it was about the flood of Noah's day.

Mind you, the LEVEL of shaking shown in the end of Hebrews 12 that happened once before is being compared to the level that will occur when God destroys man's works off this earth in our near future.

I am not even discussing hebrews 12. I am discussing genesis, So not sure what your talking about. I thought we were talking about the flood.

 

[ATH1]

I read the bible and interpret what it says.
I do not come up with the same conclusions you do.
Allan (that is fine and just. you are being honest with yourself,)

I just go by what I assume to be your interpretation of denominational (ie whoever does not believe as I do, as this appears to be the way your coming across..not saying you are, just saying that is what it sounds like)
(ALLAN ) pLS, I do NOT want to come across as a believe me or else kinda jerk. I would NEVER consider doing that.
I do believe I am correct, but I have changed my mind many many times as I learn more. I have been looking for a Christian chat that actually had Christians chatting for a long time and finally found this one. I am so grateful for you and some others to discuss things with. I am NOT trying to pound my beliefs into anyone. I expect I will be open to change my mind on things if I find a concrete reason to. (I suspect just like you did) I am strongly opposed to
1. church Doctrine we have the bible, why add doctrine 2) politically correctness 3) churches that are continually begging for money. If a church has to beg for money, its not doing Gods work.




Why do we change our minds about anything? We question it, Look it up. and find it not to be as true as we thought it was. We find things that would not make us agree with what we were taught.




I stopped teaching it because I find decided that many things I was taught were not true, and this to be one of them..
(allan) Why do I suspect there is more to why you changed than you are saying. I am not prying but I just pray you did it for good reason. I suspect I probably am a scofild type except I think he taught the rapture. I have listened to SC a lot and really believe they are the most correct according to how I think. I suspect you also are familiar with them.
If so, and you would like to share why you left, I would be interested to know if they are wrong! Its easy for me to follow them because it is along the same lines I feel are correct.

Why should I teach something I can not see as true?

(allan someday, when we know each other better, I would love to have us share thoughts. If you have changed your mind on things, perhaps there are some same things I haven't concidered.
I am especially interested in your opinions because you have changed teaching as a pastor. One has to give up a lot when one changes to a different church. That doesn't come easy. Therefore your opinions would be paramount for the rest of us to concider prayerfully.

God bless you sir.
in utmost respect...allan

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(ALLAN ) pLS, I do NOT want to come across as a believe me or else kinda jerk. I would NEVER consider doing that.
I do believe I am correct, but I have changed my mind many many times as I learn more. I have been looking for a Christian chat that actually had Christians chatting for a long time and finally found this one. I am so grateful for you and some others to discuss things with. I am NOT trying to pound my beliefs into anyone. I expect I will be open to change my mind on things if I find a concrete reason to. (I suspect just like you did) I am strongly opposed to
1. church Doctrine we have the bible, why add doctrine 2) politically correctness 3) churches that are continually begging for money. If a church has to beg for money, its not doing Gods work.

I agree with everything you just said, Amen.. I feel the same way.

(allan someday, when we know each other better, I would love to have us share thoughts. If you have changed your mind on things, perhaps there are some same things I haven't concidered.
I am especially interested in your opinions because you have changed teaching as a pastor. One has to give up a lot when one changes to a different church. That doesn't come easy. Therefore your opinions would be paramount for the rest of us to concider prayerfully.

God bless you sir.
in utmost respect...allan

I am open to it, That is what got me to change, people asked questions, and got me to think, if people di dnot question me, I probably would be the same boat.

I do not expect people to agree with everything I say we all have our beliefs, But when someone gets down and hand in the face, like happens alot in here, Then I will get pushy against them.. there is no room for that.. except when it comes to the gospel of Christ, and the way to heaven, this we have to take a stand on..

One can say I am strongly apposed to Calvinism, Which for the most part, I am, But I consider them my brothers and sisters in Christ. because we have the same gospel. of eternal life apart from works, based on faith in Christ. .

 

[wincam]

So what is God talking about in Genesis 6 12-13?

Genesis 6:12-13 KJV
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. [13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

so here we see what freewill has done and will do - again and again we have been told and accepted that we have freewill and choice without in fact checking to see if this is so - if only we would we would find that this is not so and thank God this is not so - any comments - wincam

 

[KJV1611]

so here we see what freewill has done and will do - again and again we have been told and accepted that we have freewill and choice without in fact checking to see if this is so - if only we would we would find that this is not so and thank God this is not so - any comments - wincam

No doubt freewill exists to a certain degree. I don't think there is freewill in salvation , but we do have the choice to pull away from God or not pull away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so here we see what freewill has done and will do - again and again we have been told and accepted that we have freewill and choice without in fact checking to see if this is so - if only we would we would find that this is not so and thank God this is not so - any comments - wincam

2/3 of the angel rhelm had free will and never sinned.

Free will does not cause sin, If it does, Then God caused sin by giving us free will

 

[wincam]

2/3 of the angel rhelm had free will and never sinned.

Free will does not cause sin, If it does, Then God caused sin by giving us free will

we do not have freewill - a flawed free will is not free - Adam had freewill - wincam

 

[wincam]

we do not have freewill - a flawed free will is not free - Adam had freewill - wincam

so like Paul at Rmns 7 we can plead not guilty and it is precisely because we are not guilty that Christ came to set us free - wincam

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we do not have freewill - a flawed free will is not free - Adam had freewill - wincam

Yes he did, And it was not flawed. You can not appreciate love and being served unless you chose to receive it.