Famous Preachers With Infamous Views

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Budman said:
How about a liar?
The Bible says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. How many lies do you need to tell to be a liar?
One.
How many sins will damn a person?
One.
The whole point God is making is that we are all guilty of breaking His laws - and we will continue to break His laws (i.e., "sin") until the day we die.
That's why we need a Savior who paid for it all - every single sin. That's why we are declared righteous and holy. Christ's sinless nature is imputed to us. There is no condemnation left for believers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but by your reasoning, it seems, if a believer commits a sin just before death, his salvation is forfeit, and he goes to hell.
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Very good points. To answer your last question, no. But to use Calvin as an example, his persistent heart attitude of hatred towards those who opposed his doctrines (to the point of actual murder and glorying in it) suggests that he was not really a believer in the first place, regardless of his many writings, 'ground-breaking' doctrines, important position of power and now, fame. We are saved by GOD dwelling in us. He doesn't appear to have dwelt in Calvin as evidenced by his words and actions.
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Very good points. To answer your last question, no. But to use Calvin as an example, his persistent heart attitude of hatred towards those who opposed his doctrines (to the point of actual murder and glorying in it) suggests that he was not really a believer in the first place, regardless of his many writings, 'ground-breaking' doctrines, important position of power and now, fame. We are saved by GOD dwelling in us. He doesn't appear to have dwelt in Calvin as evidenced by his words and actions.
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I have no idea if Calvin was actually born again. But my whole point is; there are many (if not most) born again believers who certainly don't act like it. Yet again, our salvation isn't based on what we do, or don't do, it's 100% based on what Christ did. The very definition of grace is "unmerited favor".

A believer may commit one sin a day, or a thousand, but his or her salvation is never in question because it's not based on works at all.

But that's not to say God will not chasten a sinning saint - even to the point of taking them home. (Hebrews 12:6)
 
I would be more inclined to say that God "receives" them home...If I do something foolish in my flesh and die....it's the destruction of my flesh and my spirit goes to the Lord....I don't think it's God chastising me seeing He uses His word to discipline us..
 
Budman said:
I have no idea if Calvin was actually born again. But my whole point is; there are many (if not most) born again believers who certainly don't act like it. Yet again, our salvation isn't based on what we do, or don't do, it's 100% based on what Christ did. The very definition of grace is "unmerited favor".

A believer may commit one sin a day, or a thousand, but his or her salvation is never in question because it's not based on works at all.

But that's not to say God will not chasten a sinning saint - even to the point of taking them home. (Hebrews 12:6)
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Our justification and initial sanctification are 100% based on what Christ did. However, the preservation of our sanctification is dependent upon our cooperation with the holy spirit. GOD doesn't force himself on anyone.

Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12:14

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these [evil things] the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. ​Therefore do not be sharers with them, Ephesians 5:6-7​
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Our justification and initial sanctification are 100% based on what Christ did. However, the preservation of our sanctification is dependent upon our cooperation with the holy spirit. GOD doesn't force himself on anyone.
Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12:14

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these [evil things] the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. ​Therefore do not be sharers with them, Ephesians 5:6-7​
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So, salvation is probationary?
 
Grace777x70 said:
I would be more inclined to say that God "receives" them home...If I do something foolish in my flesh and die....it's the destruction of my flesh and my spirit goes to the Lord....I don't think it's God chastising me seeing He uses His word to discipline us..
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That is important to note because God doesn't 'kill' His children. If that guy was saved, his own sin caused much misery on his life. We have to remember it is the devil who comes to kill steal and destroy and he will use all manner of means especially deception and religious pride. Those seem to be a fav.
 
Budman said:
What, exactly, do you mean by "full"?

Either one is saved, or they are not. Salvation isn't based on a sliding scale.
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By full I mean the redemption of the body.

But whenever this perishable [body] puts on incorruptibility and this mortal [body] puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: ​“Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 15:54​
 
ladylynn said:


That is important to note because God doesn't 'kill' His children. If that guy was saved, his own sin caused much misery on his life. We have to remember it is the devil who comes to kill steal and destroy and he will use all manner of means especially deception and religious pride. Those seem to be a fav.
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All life is given by God, and God takes all life. No one dies apart from His will. He is the one who appoints our time on earth.

I really don't see a theological problem with this.

Even Satan can only do as God allows.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
By full I mean the redemption of the body.
But whenever this perishable [body] puts on incorruptibility and this mortal [body] puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: ​“Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 15:54​
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So it is mortal and perishable. That seems to contradict being alive but without life. Of course that seems contradictory all by itself. How can anything without life experience anything?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
By full I mean the redemption of the body.
But whenever this perishable [body] puts on incorruptibility and this mortal [body] puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: ​“Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 15:54​
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I'm sorry, I don't intend to be rude by saying the following, but you seem to be dancing around the issue.

Can sin in the life of a believer cause them to lose, not their physical life, but their salvation?

Yes or no.
 
Grace777x70 said:
What I find funny about "confessing sins" is that we usually don't really confess the real sin.

Example:..I go to the store and steal food ( I supposedly confess that I stole food to God and He forgives me..)

The "sin" of stealing the food is just the "fruit" of my real sin....which is....I do not trust in my loving heavenly Father.

So, It is impossible to really confess our sins....if we had to rely on that procedure.....we'd be goners and hell-bound for sure!!

just thinkin' out loud here...:rolleyes:
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Amen, that's why the law can never stop sin, It does not get to the issue, it can say don't steal. but why did we steal to begin with.

Also. you make a great point, That's a mighty religious way to excuse sin. Go steal. then repent. I can steel a million times as long as I repent each time. What makes that person any more righteous than the grace person. who goes to god and say help me, I can't stop.. instead of just repenting over and over.
 
Budman said:
I'm sorry, I don't intend to be rude by saying the following, but you seem to be dancing around the issue.

Can sin in the life of a believer cause them to lose, not their physical life, but their salvation?

Yes or no.
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No, except for one sin IMO: unrepentant denial of the lord. GOD alone knows what this entails. That's why we are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.

​Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12​
 
ladylynn said:


That is important to note because God doesn't 'kill' His children. If that guy was saved, his own sin caused much misery on his life. We have to remember it is the devil who comes to kill steal and destroy and he will use all manner of means especially deception and religious pride. Those seem to be a fav.
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I do believe God will call people home sometimes, Also known as the sin unto death, Weather it be God removing his protection and letting nature do its thing or whatever, God does call people home..

I do not believe God kills his children though, I agree..
 
Budman said:
What, exactly, do you mean by "full"?

Either one is saved, or they are not. Salvation isn't based on a sliding scale.
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salvation means literally rescued.

How can you be called rescued, if your not yet out of danger? You may have been given first aid, but your not rescued yet.

How can you be saved, if your not really saved.

Sort of makes our hope a false hope. who can have faith in that?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
No, except for one sin IMO: unrepentant denial of the lord. GOD alone knows what this entails. That's why we are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
​Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12​
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Okay.

But even with that verse, it says work "out" not work "for".

Thanks for the clarification. :)
 
Magenta said:
So it is mortal and perishable. That seems to contradict being alive but without life. Of course that seems contradictory all by itself. How can anything without life experience anything?
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There are two forms of life: natural life and spiritual life. The soul is the natural life. All dead persons will be resurrected (made alive). Those without spiritual life will be banished alive to the appointed place away from GOD's mercy and love.

Thus also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul”; the last Adam [became] a life-giving spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45​
 
Budman said:
Okay.

But even with that verse, it says work "out" not work "for".

Thanks for the clarification. :)
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Yeah, there's no way we can ever work for it, as in try to earn it. That part is a done deal. It's a gift. Hold on to it. Don't let the evil one steal it through deceit.
 
It's the next verse that makes sense out of the Phil 2:12..fear and trembling...you will find when you do a study on "fear and trembling"..it is in response to the goodness of Jesus....like the woman with the issue of blood..she came back to Jesus with fear and trembling..knowing what had happened to her....it's the awe and respect of the goodness of God exhibited in our life..

It is God in us that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure....


Philippians 2:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
 
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