“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown

[crossnote]

Well, let me clue you in EG., Just because some here on CC happen to have read or heard preaching by a grace preacher/pastor named Joseph Prince from Singapore ., many believers like crossnote for instance think everyone who likes Prince., agrees with EVERYTHING Prince says.,and categorizes Willie as a 'follower'

But I happen to know for a fact that brother Willie (for instance) is not one who holds to the rapture of the church and he does not agree with Prince on MANY other issues but appreciates Prince's stand on grace. (Willie doesn't even like to listen to Prince) but will read his books.

Where as I agree with much of what Prince preaches in comparison to Willie. But since brother Willie has a few books of Princes., he has been considered a 'follower' of Prince by crossnote.

Again., it is important to not throw everyone into the same soup mix. (you know you do crossnote!!!)

Excuse me, but when did I pin Prince on Willie? 77Grace yes, you yes, but not Willie.

 

[ladylynn]

This is a hilarious 9 minute video about a guy that visits the throne room of the Father...in a dream or vision....can't remember ....but it is hilarious..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAx8-ztqXps

Wow, that was awesome., Thanks for posting it Grace777 Very much blessed me.

 

[ladylynn]

I moved to pensacola for the revival.
Both my girls were changed forever.
I thank God to this day for that awesome move of God.

We used to stand at the door and watch people come out,so moved that they could barely walk.
The anointing was so thick with the presence and power of the Holy Spirit,it was like it hit you in the face when you walked into
the ssanctuary.

It was an awesome,awesome time.

Dr Brown was there and started the school of ministry. Don wilkerson,Daves brother,came several times and pleaded with Dave to give it a second look (he despised the brownsville revival at first).
Eventually Dave wilkerson came on board and gave it his blessing.

The revival was destroyed by the hand of Man. I watched it happen. Steve left,and Mike was forced out practically the next day.
They took over the school and it failed,as did the revival.

That is so sad.

 

[ladylynn]

..................
View attachment 141562

LOL This is such a great picture for these Forums! hahaha., thanks for posting it HeRose., I'd like to use it too! Sometimes one picture says it all.

 

[ladylynn]

Let's look at it through what scripture has to say about repentance concerning preaching the gospel. I know we have been taught differently through our religious upbringing and beliefs handed down to us. Let's let God's word speak life to us.

Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..no repentence used

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
They were not told to "repent" here. I love how the Holy Spirit "falls upon " them as soon s they hear about the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to them because of Christ!

Peter got in trouble with the jewish Christians when he went back...he says in Acts 11:17,18

Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

What was there repentance?...they changed their mind toward God and had faith in Jesus.

Notice that it was God that granted them repentance. New Covenant repentance is not something we conjure up on our own nor is it a work we produce.

2 Tim 2:24-25 says that God may grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. God grants the repentance..not a work we do on our own.

Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Again ..no telling them to "repent"...but Paul did tell them .." urged them to continue in the grace of God"

Both of the examples we have of New Covenant preaching about the gospel of grace had NO words of telling people to repent.

These clearly show that "repentance " was not told to them

So, another point..does repentance mean to be sorrowful for your sin? Judas "repented "

Matthew 27:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

The word used here for "repent" is not the same word for normally used for repentance ( which is = change your mind in greek )..the word used here is completely different..it means to be sorrowful.

So, repentance does not mean "turn from sin '..it means change your mind and turn to God and believe in Jesus and hat He has done.

There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us.

We do not say it's ok to sin...grace says the exact opposite...and maybe no matter how many times we say it..people will only "hear" what they want to believe.

We all need to repent every day as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!

Brethern ...I urge you to believe in the awesome greatness and splendor of our Lord's magnificent finished work on our behalf!

There is something about people that we think our 'feelings' somehow count for something. Our feelings are so fleeting and even idiotic at times. And they can be changed due to the circumstance of the moment or influenced by something we ate!. Having been pregnant 3 times I remember how hormones went wacky and crying and serious thinking were all part of it. I could cry at the drop of a hat. Over the years I've had to not take my own feelings too seriously because they just didn't matter sometimes.

The next morning I'd have gotten some rest and those heavy emotions of the night before were gone. I'd be glad I went to bed and didn't put so much emphasis on how I 'felt' the night before cause i didn't feel anything like that now and would have blown something way out of per portion had I acted on my feelings.

Maybe it's a matter of learning that what WE think and feel about something is not all that majorly important. Sayings like 'Get over yourself' -or- 'Being right can be highly over rated' come to mind. Many times we ourselves are the only ones who think our ideas and thoughts are sooo important.

I am so thankful to God that He went many steps further and completed the work of my redemption when He secured it IN His Son. I've since come to see that God is more interested in my faith in Him based on a mind transformation ...and how turning from (repenting) from my way of thinking to His way of thinking will bring out the right emotions or at least if I want to cry in joy and happiness He understands it's just my way.

 

[oldthennew]

a great solution for all of the 'agreeing/dis-agreeing' is to simply adhere to scripture
with a humble heart and the Holy Spirit will reveal in a timely fashion -
patience is a must for we can only learn a little here and a little there, it's the way
that He made us....

you will find that you won't have to defend anyone who you don't really know at all...
you will find a deeper Faith in Christ....
you will find no need to insult or belittle or mock or portray another in an unkind way....
you will see yourself maturing in grace and Godly character.....
but most of all, you will feel your heart melt in love for your brothers and sisters, just because
you Love the One who died for you more and more every day......
Miracles do happen, I'd say that we each in our own way are one.......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No this is not repentance as we understand repentance, turning from sin and humbling your self,

So repentance is saying you will stop sin (even though you do not) Excusing your sin and pride (I am not like the sinner and those greasy gracers( And saying, thanks for the cross Lord. You did your part. now let me do mine?

No thanks. that's not repentance, that's religion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, so here is the question: You've been a believer for a long time, and one day you commit adultery. According to God's grace do you:

A: Repent and Go to God and confess your sin and ask for forgiveness, or ....

B: Do you say to yourself, Jesus already paid the penalty for my sins, so I don't need to confess or repent and it is the same for any sin that I commit in my life? Before you answer, consider the following:

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Even though Jesus already paid the penalty for our sins, when we sin, we still need repent and go to God and confess it. The grace of God and the indwelling of the Spirit should lead us to get control of our sinful nature and to endeavor to sin as least as possible. For all sin is against God.

When the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray, one of the prayers was, "forgive us our sins, as we would also forgive those who would sin against us." That was an example of on-going prayer and not a one-time prayer.

You forgot point c.

I Not only come to Christ, But I come to whoever is my disciple so I can confess my sin. I have no feer, because we are all under grace, so I can actually get some help instead of hiding my sin, where I have no help, and most likely will continue to be tempted of that sin, and eventually fall so hard or get caught in their sin.

Like has happened to so many people in that legalistic religious based church. Because they were so afraid of being judged,

Grace has no fear. they have an Abba Father, and can come get freedom..

 

[royalscot]

there is big errors in this forum.
jesus was back in heaven , when grace a gift, was given. so anyone can read, the history account, of his life and what he did, when he was on earth. give that they can read. ie (would it be wrong to conclude,more humans, can read in 2015 ad, than in or around, 1-70 ad.)

the bigger question, would be ,how could god, teach humans, who have free will.

with the holy spirit,

you have the logos ,(the written word of god)ie the bible,(around 1500 bible in print)

the rhema( the now word of god) ie god telling you to do something or to change something.(been in place, from the very beginning of gods creation)
for example
Peter's Vision
9 The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray.10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth.12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.13 And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."15 And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.Acts 10 (leading to eating things, that would be considered to be unclean, at this point in history,)

yet what was in place before the logos.

yet how can you connect, without knowing the spiritual or guidance, part of the teaching from god.

yet your still asking ,what peter or paul meaning is to certain words, or what they are doing, at that time in history.
yet miss the point of the rhema, is what is god telling or trying to teach you. etc

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Go read what He was testifying and witnessing to the onlookers (in my post #176) These were all people who knew the rest of the Psalm by heart.

I am reading the text for what it is.

So many people want to think MEN punished jesus for our sin, It was his beating , and his mocking and scorn, And the pain suffered when men nailed him to the cross. And all he suffered up to their,

But you see, As psalm said, He never left him. Jesus did not cry out, because he had the HS and the father with him, and man could do nothing to him.

But at one moment something severe happened. It was at that point My sin was placed on his body, And the lord forsook him, because God can not look on sin.

If what you claim is true. the penalty of sin is not so severe after all. and maybe just maybe all the universalists are right.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did? His blood wasn't left at the cross.

Yep. it continues to cleanse every day of our lives. It is not a one time deal.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, let me clue you in EG., Just because some here on CC happen to have read or heard preaching by a grace preacher/pastor named Joseph Prince from Singapore ., many believers like crossnote for instance think everyone who likes Prince., agrees with EVERYTHING Prince says.,and categorizes Willie as a 'follower'

But I happen to know for a fact that brother Willie (for instance) is not one who holds to the rapture of the church and he does not agree with Prince on MANY other issues but appreciates Prince's stand on grace. (Willie doesn't even like to listen to Prince) but will read his books.

Where as I agree with much of what Prince preaches in comparison to Willie. But since brother Willie has a few books of Princes., he has been considered a 'follower' of Prince by crossnote.

Again., it is important to not throw everyone into the same soup mix. (you know you do crossnote!!!)

Ah, I see..

it is sad what we can do sometimes..

No wonder the world looks at us, and says, why would I want that??

 

[Willie-T]

there is big errors in this forum.
jesus was back in heaven , when grace a gift, was given. so anyone can read, the history account, of his life and what he did, when he was on earth. give that they can read. ie (would it be wrong to conclude,more humans, can read in 2015 ad, than in or around, 1-70 ad.)

the bigger question, would be ,how could god, teach humans, who have free will.

with the holy spirit,

you have the logos ,(the written word of god)ie the bible,(around 1500 bible in print)

the rhema( the now word of god) ie god telling you to do something or to change something.(been in place, from the very beginning of gods creation)
for example
Peter's Vision
9 The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray.10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth.12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.13 And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."15 And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.Acts 10 (leading to eating things, that would be considered to be unclean, at this point in history,)

yet what was in place before the logos.

yet how can you connect, without knowing the spiritual or guidance, part of the teaching from god.

yet your still asking ,what peter or paul meaning is to certain words, or what they are doing, at that time in history.
yet miss the point of the rhema, is what is god telling or trying to teach you. etc

You don't call all those rescuing and saving and feeding miracles in the OT, "Grace?" The old Testament is chock full of "grace."

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yep. it continues to cleanse every day of our lives. It is not a one time deal. [/B]

Yet that's how the Hyper-Grace crowd looks at it.

 

[Willie-T]

Yet that's how the Hyper-Grace crowd looks at it.

He plainly said JESUS' power keeps on cleansing us each time we sin.... NOT that we keep cleaning ourselves up by our repeated acts. Many people here tell it as though Jesus can't do a thing till He sees us doing our own "powerful", pitiful "wailing for more forgiveness" act.

 

[Grace777x70]

Some people honestly have no idea what is being said ....the blood of our Lord Jesus has cleansed us when we believed in Him and continually cleanses as we walk in this earth....that can't be that hard to understand.

1 John 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth ( present continuous ) us from all sin.

And we know no matter what is being said ...people will say something different about what is actually being said..so this is the end of a useless discussion for me

ya'll play nice with each other..

Yet that's how the Hyper-Grace crowd looks at it.

 

[Grace777x70]

You are in trouble now Willie...you have just put a knife to the throat of one of the "sacred cows"...gasp!..heretic!..lol

He plainly said JESUS' power keeps on cleansing us each time we sin.... NOT that we keep cleaning ourselves up by our repeated acts. Many people here tell it as though Jesus can't do a thing till He sees us doing our own "powerful", pitiful "wailing for more forgiveness" act.

 

[Willie-T]

Excuse me, but when did I pin Prince on Willie? 77Grace yes, you yes, but not Willie.

As I recall, it was about three months ago. Kind of surprised me, since I really don't go for a lot of what he preaches.

 

[Willie-T]

You are in trouble now Willie...you have just put a knife to the throat of one of the "sacred cows"...gasp!..heretic!..lol

My backyard is just littered with those dead cows.

 

[Grace777x70]

What?...and the earth hasn't opened up and swallowed you yet for killing those cows??...

My backyard is just littered with those dead cows.