Are we sinners?

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Are christians still sinners?

  • Total voters
    40
Grace777x70 said:
True..I agree with you...outwardly it would show....the problem too is....what are the outward signs?..in some places it's a bun in your hair.. or not going to a movie....drinking wine....not drinking coffee....it's kinda endless!The "inward" sins are just as sinful as the outward ones....for example....slander is just as deadly and sinful as murder...malice is just as sinful as stealing....etc.The Lord knows us all! He is mighty to save!I'm off to study ......you all have a great Christmas if I don't see you again! be blessed!Merry Christmas!!!
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Sins can never what we make them to be or that is adding to the word, as for what you have done by bringing up drinking coffee, or drinking wine, and such.Neither of those two are sins in and of themselves, but if you misuse and abuse them then they can become sinful actions.Drinking a glass or two of wine a day is not sinning !!!Now if you drink a lot of it a day for the purpose to get drunk, or you do it in front of another who has a drinking problem and cause them to stumble then you have sinned in both situations. We must be very careful in labeling things as sin that are not as that would be placing stumbling blocks on peoples growth in the faith, which is clearly said as wrong to do.Yes inward sins are just as bad and dangerous as outward, which is why we are told to cleanse both the inner and outer.
 
Grace777x70 said:
The "inward" sins are just as sinful as the outward ones....for example....slander is just as deadly and sinful as murder...malice is just as sinful as stealing....etc.
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If you want to start talking real evil law here it is.

"Slander is just as deadly and sinful as murder."

Now this sounds a little extreme but yes slander is bad. Slander is inventing a lie that brings someone else into a bad light. The problem is when truth brings someone into a bad light, often the response of the guilty person is to say it is slander.
Then to make it worse it is equated with murder and therefore should be punished with death.

Now ISIS use this logic, and murder innocents who do not like Muhammed or say one way of being a muslim is right and all others wrong.

So anyone who starts talking like this is dangerous, because they know there is some powerful truth in their life, which if exposed would undermine all they stand for. So ask why they are talking like this, and push for truth rather than take what they are saying at face value because it is not.
 
kathryn said:
You don't stop sinning, because you can't be perfect in the flesh, but you are supposed to sin a lot less once you get saved than you did before
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Thats because we were given a new nature. And our needs are met by God, so we do not have to meet our needs anymore.
 
KennethC said:
I hope you are not saying the Pharisees were holy ???

The self-righteousness that Jesus was speaking of was the self-righteousness of the Pharisees, because they misused and abused the law for self gain and recognition.

Jesus told our righteousness has to exceed theirs because self-righteousness will lead nobody to salvation through Christ, thus why Jesus called the Pharisees father the devil.

We have to walk in His righteousness and not our own, for we are to seek His ways in our lives and not our own !!!
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That would be the self righteousness of any religious group. not just pharisees
 
KJV1611 said:
The flesh and blood human body isn't sintient, how can flesh, blood and bones affect the law of a persons mind? Or how does the human body wage war against our minds?
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The mistake people make is not including the mind as a part of what makes up the flesh in a man.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.


.
 
kathryn said:
Jesus said the Pharisees cleaned the outside of the cup but on the inside they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean. So I am not sure if Jesus would consider lust as the outside of the cup
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Anyone who talks in terms of flesh and spirit is on shaky ground. The flesh is impulses which are linked to being human, hunger, anger, sleep, desire etc. They occur and we are not sure why, but there are not something we choose.
The spirit is often things relating to the gifts of the Spirit and the word implanted in our souls.

It appears we can sow to either aspects of our natures, either building on what has been planted to encouraging our natural impulses.

Jesus is talking about these impulses when left to run riot polute us and drive us to sinful actions.
When Jesus is talking about dry bones hidden underneath their white exterior I think he is talking about their lack of love and compassion for those around them. They would be happy to do the right thing for their benefit, but to help the needy was far from their hearts.

Now to characterise the christian as a pure being and the flesh as something that is impure and dying is just a lie.
As sinners, our impulses are as much us as our better sentiments. All we can do is sow to the spirit, and our impulses will slowly move into appropriate contexts.

The model of perfect new creation plays into the idea we just have to claim being children of God with command authority and away you go. Sin is just something you shrug off. I would call this idea just insanity and justifying sin as not the believers problem so to be ignored. Not a healthy place to live, completely delusional.
 
I bless you Peter....have a safe and wonderful time with your family this Christmas!


PeterJens said:
Lets be harsh

"Why would Jesus – who nailed the law to the cross and died so that we might live free from its demands – suddenly turn around and start laying law on his church?"

When Jesus died he died to show the sin against him was forgiven. He did not stop the law or its punishment, he actually added to it with the command, "Love one another as I have loved you."

This is a command of sacrifice and hardship, becoming a servant to others, washing their feet, taking the lower place rather than the higher.

In Jesus if we walk in His ways we walk in righteousness. But all hyper-grace is preaching is walking how your conscience says is ok. Worst still if anyone finds sin, rather than confessing it and repenting, humbling oneself, dealing with the harm and walking on, it is just ignored, because it is the flesh and not the individual at all, so already forgiven.

This is just licenousness, no desire to changing or doing the right thing, but based on the idea you are already perfect you just need to walk in it. The problem is sin shows this is simply a lie. It just becomes justification for failure and an excuse to party. Only the depraved would think this is a good idea, because the damage that any sin does is being denied, and its effects talked about as irrelevant. Now this idea works in a world of nice middle class people who basically do nice stuff, but would never work among sinners or the lost.

So who are these people who preach this? People who have been in church for 10+ years and are moving out of legalism into a more relaxed view of life. They are so far removed from real life or non-religious behaviour, everything they speak is like a reformed pharisee who has just shacked up with their lover.

Funnily two leaders from my church, who left their wives, got new partners, through messy affairs, now go to these type of churches. Makes me wonder how many divorces Grace7x77 has been through already?
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eternally-gratefull said:
Absolutely nothing of what you said here is even close to what I believe or was saying..
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Wow. It is possible to say things and yet not understand. I can just share how it comes across.
What we have been discussing is
1. sin
2. righteousness
3. sanctification
4. hyprocracy
5. Christs work
6. Love

These appear to be fairly basic christian building blocks. Maybe I follow a different faith to you, because I am stating fairly simple theological concepts, but you are denying them left right and centre. I suggest rather you are in denial in yourself and reinterpret everything I am saying into your own perspective. I am sorry you do this, but I cannot change reality.

Jesus says he makes those who claim to see blind, those who claim wisdom, foolish. All I can say is however you stand it is not sane or based on normal ideas, so has to be some odd cult or other. You and Grace7x77 make quite a couple and cannot agree between the two of you.

By the way if you deviate from core theology you are a heretic. Condemning ordinary bible believing people would classify you as right down that road.
 
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Rev 21:27
 
PeterJens said:
Wow. It is possible to say things and yet not understand. I can just share how it comes across.
What we have been discussing is
1. sin
2. righteousness
3. sanctification
4. hyprocracy
5. Christs work
6. Love

These appear to be fairly basic christian building blocks. Maybe I follow a different faith to you, because I am stating fairly simple theological concepts, but you are denying them left right and centre. I suggest rather you are in denial in yourself and reinterpret everything I am saying into your own perspective. I am sorry you do this, but I cannot change reality.

Jesus says he makes those who claim to see blind, those who claim wisdom, foolish. All I can say is however you stand it is not sane or based on normal ideas, so has to be some odd cult or other. You and Grace7x77 make quite a couple and cannot agree between the two of you.

By the way if you deviate from core theology you are a heretic. Condemning ordinary bible believing people would classify you as right down that road.
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We have been discussing love.

You made a post. And said you understood what I meant and where I was coming from. Even though you did not.

Ever since them all you have done is slander me, Call me arrogant and divisive, and all other kinds of things.

If you ever want to try to figure out what I think love is, and what I call pseudo live is, Let me know.

otherwise, like I said, we can not discus anything, You can not tell me I am wrong, when you do not even understand what I am saying.
 
To all those who deny their sin and call themselves brothers

Repent, humble yourselves and seek the Lord to guide you in righteousness.

Christmas is a time of good new, remembering to coming of our King, who brought forgiveness of sins and the power to walk in victory for those who claim it.

The Lords blessing is to leave you in heresy for a time to allow you a chance to repent before judgement falls upon you and the churches you represent. Living with sin and ignoring it is an affront to the Lord.

So I bring you this challenge, while the time is still available repent.
 
FreeNChrist said:
I am who God says I am, and God says I am a saint. A totally forgiven, loved and accepted child of His. My sins do not define me, nor do they somehow change my identity. They do not change who I am in Christ.

There is no humbleness in seeing yourself as a sinner. If you are a sinner, then of course go sin, it's what a sinner does. It's their nature. But if you are a saint, it is your nature to not sin. When a saint sins they are acting contrary to who they are. Which is why all through the NT we are exhorted to be who we now are, and not the sinners we used to be.

It is not by seeing ourselves as sinners that we sin-less, it is by seeing ourselves as the new creations we now are in Christ. If we are saints then what are we doing wallowing around in the mud like the sinners we used to be?

Why indeed.
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Unregenerate sinners don't see themselves as sinners. And so they practice sin and die.

Regenerated, justified sinners see their sin through the witness of the holy spirit. And so they don't practice sin and live.
 
KJV1611 said:
Are the any verses that say sin that dwells in my flesh ever dimishes or goes away? I can't think of any.
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==========================================

MATT.5:48. - Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

ROMANS 6:11-12.
Likewise reckon you also your selves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

11PETER 2:19.While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption:
for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

1JOHN 4:4. - Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you,
than he that is in the world.

REV. 3:5.
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name
out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

if we walk in the Spirit, we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh - even so, the flesh lusts against the Spirit
and the spirit lusts against the flesh, and these two are contrary the one to the other, so that you cannot
do the things that you would, but, I can do ALL things through Christ Jesus who strengthens me.'

we're all a WORK in progress, we have a life-long walk of over-coming, one step at a time -
as the scripture states,
WE MUST OVER-COME ALL WICKEDNESS.... and again, I die daily'.....





 
eternally-gratefull said:
We have been discussing love.
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You are a joker. If you write a response, that is your response. Please do not blame me for responding to the words you write. You said Gods love is perfect, sacrificial love. You said love does not exist in the world unless you have experienced Gods love.

That is pretty clear cut and simple. It is also worded in such a way as to exclude other options.
Now maybe you regret these words, and me responding to them, and want to say you meant something else, but it is hard to say I am doing anything wrong.

I conclude truth does not matter to you, only winning, and you want everyone of your expressions to win. If they do not you claim foul, you did not understand what I am saying.

It does not work because I know this tactic. You want to maintain some pride. Sorry pride does not exist on this playing field, it is not a safe place. You are talking about the most serious absolute subjects any human can talk about. I do not take them lightly and have little respect for your approach. I gather you have nothing else to contribute, but that is your choice not mine.

You managed to call me a pharisee and claim I am doing dead works etc. which is equivalent to writing off any contributions I make. Thankfully the Lord thinks differently and will make plain to you shortly.

What I have discovered in my exchanges, is the Lords blesses me and opens up new areas of understanding. As He blesses me I would suggest that is not how you feel, but that is not my intention. I am just called to share and be a light.

Being salt is about understanding what righteousness is, and sticking to it. It is not hard but it is brutal.
Are you another divorcee trying to assuage guilt by peddling grace instead of repentance?
 
PeterJens said:
You are a joker. If you write a response, that is your response. Please do not blame me for responding to the words you write. You said Gods love is perfect, sacrificial love. You said love does not exist in the world unless you have experienced Gods love.

That is pretty clear cut and simple.
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So simple. yet you completely missed the point,,

Again, you own words.
PeterJens said:
I understand your way of building definitions in your language. Love is a positive feeling towards the object of love. This attitude has few limits. It is used throughout society to express this attitude towards things like I love that song, I love sweets, I love money, I love beauty, I love nature, I love God, I love my wife etc.

Now each person adds to their love of things by actions, or ways of expressing it, or devotion to the thing which defines what they will or not do because of it.
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All you have done since then is attack me.. We are not moving on until you admit you made a mistake and you did not understand what I said,

If you want to keep attacking go elsewhere. I am sick of playing games.

I am a joker huh?

You claimed you understand what I was saying. YOU WERE IN ERROR.

I try to show you that error. Yet you CALL ME A JOKER.

You just proved you have some serious issues, I pray you take care of them..


 
KJV1611 said:
Where does the bible say we're given a new nature?
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How else can we do what is good, and doing what is not good. it pierces our heart. because it is against our nature.

The old nature is still there, But it is weakened by our new nature, because it is exposed.
 
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