The Pendulum Has Swung.

[Grandpa]

What we need to do is contend for the faith and stay firm in sound doctrine.

If what we are being taught in our churches, and by a pastor says:

1) That Christ's teachings and commands don't apply to us..........

2) We can continue to live the same sinful lives as before.........

3) There is no need to repent of sins...........

4) Believers are not chastised or convicted when we sin..........

5) There is no standard we as believers are to uphold, for liberty in Christ we have lets us do whatever we want......

If any of those points are taught, please find a different church or preacher to listen to as they are leading you astray from the truth. Which this then leads to the issue of Sound Doctrine; as I have seen some very bad teaching now days that says keeping in sound doctrine does not matter when it comes to salvation.

Apostle Paul clearly states that another Jesus and another gospel can and will be taught, and if a person is following a different gospel or a different Jesus (hince would be a different doctrine). Do you think these people are saved ???

The answer should be no because only through One can we be saved, and that is the Jesus Christ of God's word !!!

Do Christians conted for working at their own perfection, in effect working at the law?

or

Do Christians contend for the faith?

And what would be the difference?

Can you reference Proverbs 14:12 in your explanation?

 

[Grandpa]

I was really just trying to find out if I am anti-nomian or not.

I'll wear the label proudly if I can figure out if the label is true.


I have no problems with labels and descriptions. I'm not sure why everyone is so scared of them.

Why can't we just define terms and see where we differ and find out why we differ?

 

[crossnote]

I was really just trying to find out if I am anti-nomian or not.

I'll wear the label proudly if I can figure out if the label is true.


I have no problems with labels and descriptions. I'm not sure why everyone is so scared of them.

Why can't we just define terms and see where we differ and find out why we differ?

I hardly think you would say "it doesn't matter if a Christian steals, murders and commits national mayhem after all 'we aren't under the law". -antinomian

On the other hand I hardly think a Christian would say, "Unless you follow the Commandments of Scripture you can't be saved or if you are saved you must still follow the Commandments in order to retain salvation" -legalist

Christians just don't fall in these categories but there is a gradation between the two extremes and I have seen the pendulum swing one way and lately the other.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was really just trying to find out if I am anti-nomian or not.

I'll wear the label proudly if I can figure out if the label is true.


I have no problems with labels and descriptions. I'm not sure why everyone is so scared of them.

Why can't we just define terms and see where we differ and find out why we differ?

I found out I was the equivalent of a "Mutt" (parts of different breeds of Christianity)

I doubt we all fit into one mold completely..

 

[Grandpa]

I hardly think you would say "it doesn't matter if a Christian steals, murders and commits national mayhem after all 'we aren't under the law". -antinomian

On the other hand I hardly think a Christian would say, "Unless you follow the Commandments of Scripture you can't be saved or if you are saved you must still follow the Commandments in order to retain salvation" -legalist

Christians just don't fall in these categories but there is a gradation between the two extremes and I have seen the pendulum swing one way and lately the other.

I think it is funny that you knew I wasn't antinomian before I did...

I don't think we work at the law as christians but I think the Lord Jesus causes us to walk righteously.

Which is according to the law, just not the way lawyers would define it...

 

[crossnote]

I think it is funny that you knew I wasn't antinomian before I did...

I don't think we work at the law as christians but I think the Lord Jesus causes us to walk righteously.

Which is according to the law, just not the way lawyers would define it...

Be careful or you will start stepping on free-willers toes

Or is it "Free Willy's toes ? ROFL

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Be careful or you will start stepping on free-willers toes

Or is it "Free Willy's toes ? ROFL

The first one is correct. Whales don't have toes.

 

[Stephen63]

So then Paul is wrong.

According to you.

Those who work at the law are not under the curse.

They are actually the ones who are being obedient to Christ.


I suppose telling new seekers that the NT is wrong would be more confusing than telling them that the NT is correct. Unless you really just have no understanding of what Christianity is...

You see? It always has to be that way, doesn't it? Old covenant law or nothing. Talk about your labeling.....

Every greasy gracer has the same agenda..... accuse us of not believing scripture & labeling us as OT legalists.

Romans 15:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed,

2 Corinthians 10:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [SUP]6 [/SUP]And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Ephesians 6:5-7 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; [SUP]6 [/SUP]Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; [SUP]7 [/SUP]With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

1 Peter 1:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[Grandpa]

You see? It always has to be that way, doesn't it? Old covenant law or nothing. Talk about your labeling.....

Every greasy gracer has the same agenda..... accuse us of not believing scripture & labeling us as OT legalists.

Romans 15:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed,

2 Corinthians 10:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [SUP]6 [/SUP]And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Ephesians 6:5-7 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; [SUP]6 [/SUP]Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; [SUP]7 [/SUP]With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

1 Peter 1:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I cannot fathom why a "christian" would ever tack greasy on to Grace.

I also don't understand how a christian would point to their own obedience, as if they don't know where true obedience comes from.

 

[Gr8grace]

I would be labeled as "greasy Grace" and " hyper Grace." Considering our flesh and sin nature...........I have no way saying grace is not hyper in the salvation of a man.

If the believer is a LOSER and follows the flesh after salvation........They are a loser of rewards and the opportunity to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ in time.

If the believer is a WINNER and follows the Spirit........they are a winner of rewards and they took hold of the opportunity to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ in time.

The loser and winner believer are SAVED and go to heaven. But they lose or gain rewards,ranks,crowns,inheritance.

I will be labeled "greasy Grace" or "hyper grace" and I wear it proudly. The "hyper" grace of our Lord Jesus Christ is antagonized and nullified in this world................Just the way satan wants it. Because it(hyper grace) saves men.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. PERIOD. then we have the privilege to glorify Him. Many believers choose the easy route and continue on in their flesh. Few continue on in the Spirit. Both are saved......hyper grace.

Are we to familiar with this?

New American Standard Bible
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

 

[ladylynn]

Your joking right?

Why are you so stuck in this, We were warned all over the NT about impostors, and illegitimate children being part of our churches, and to be wary of them.. But you think they were all saved?

Why does the NT over and over tell us to make sure we are of the faith, We are true children, We are not just people who believe, but have a dead faith,




No,

It clearly says do not return to law, Because if there is a future sin you commit that must be taken care of by law. then Jesus would have to come back and be crucified for that sin again.

It is talking about people who are in religion (Legalism) who come to tast this Christian claim of eternal life apart from works. Only to realise, You have tasted this christian life, and you do not trust it, So you return to what your true faith was in, Religion.

I see people do it all the time.

That puts Jesus to shame, You claim his death was not what he said it was.

Sadly, You are doing that very thing by claiming salvation can be lost [/QUO

Listened to a great message on the way to work yesterday. The books of the Bible are written "FOR" all Christians but there are specific things were not written "TO" all Christians. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and in all his letters to the church we find doctrine and how to order and conduct ourselves as a church body. About how Jesus is coming again, communion., Marriage,encouragement etc.... how to do the Christian life. Paul ministered to the gentiles and the apostles all agreed on that. Peter, James and John and Jude were apostles to the Jews and specifically writes to the believing Jews. But the books are also for gentiles but some of the writings in the book were not specifically 'to' gentiles. I have found this amazingly fascinating on how to read and understand the Bible.

Being as some of these were personal letters like 1-2 Timothy about instruction.

Then the other books were written specifically to believing Jews and reaching out to the unbelieving Jews and other Jews called the "dispersion" who were learning some major changes in how God was dealing with them because the Messiah had actually come and many were on the fence about that and went back to animal sacrifices. Many did not accept the Gospel.

Hebrews for instance was written to the Hebrews. Yet many believers today use the warnings of losing salvation because on not doing works when it was written specifically to the Jews to remind them of the law going out and the grace coming in. We show our faith by our works. We don't get our faith by our works. Yet since the beginning of the Bible people use those verses to try and prove we have to work for our salvation and faith is in vain.

Same with the verses in 1 John about he who hates his "brother" is a murderer and no murderer has a place with God. (But the Jews called their unbelieving Jews "brothers") in actuality the Word is identifying those who 'hate' are not of God those who 'love' are of God.

There is much more to this and I'd love to study this out more here if possible.

2 Tim.3:16 Every Scripture is God breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience and for training in righteousness in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought , purpose and action

17. So the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work. Amplified Bible.

A friend of mine here was also asking about this topic and how it sounds like what is being said is anything after Jesus death is not for the new covenant believer and I was trying to explain that we have to read in context what is for us and what is to us. Those words FOR and TO make a major difference in how we read the Bible. Be back later....

 

[crossnote]

Your joking right?

Why are you so stuck in this, We were warned all over the NT about impostors, and illegitimate children being part of our churches, and to be wary of them.. But you think they were all saved?

Why does the NT over and over tell us to make sure we are of the faith, We are true children, We are not just people who believe, but have a dead faith,




No,

It clearly says do not return to law, Because if there is a future sin you commit that must be taken care of by law. then Jesus would have to come back and be crucified for that sin again.

It is talking about people who are in religion (Legalism) who come to tast this Christian claim of eternal life apart from works. Only to realise, You have tasted this christian life, and you do not trust it, So you return to what your true faith was in, Religion.

I see people do it all the time.

That puts Jesus to shame, You claim his death was not what he said it was.

Sadly, You are doing that very thing by claiming salvation can be lost [/QUO

Listened to a great message on the way to work yesterday. The books of the Bible are written "FOR" all Christians but there are specific things were not written "TO" all Christians. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and in all his letters to the church we find doctrine and how to order and conduct ourselves as a church body. About how Jesus is coming again, communion., Marriage,encouragement etc.... how to do the Christian life. Paul ministered to the gentiles and the apostles all agreed on that. Peter, James and John and Jude were apostles to the Jews and specifically writes to the believing Jews. But the books are also for gentiles but some of the writings in the book were not specifically 'to' gentiles. I have found this amazingly fascinating on how to read and understand the Bible.

Being as some of these were personal letters like 1-2 Timothy about instruction.

Then the other books were written specifically to believing Jews and reaching out to the unbelieving Jews and other Jews called the "dispersion" who were learning some major changes in how God was dealing with them because the Messiah had actually come and many were on the fence about that and went back to animal sacrifices. Many did not accept the Gospel.

Hebrews for instance was written to the Hebrews. Yet many believers today use the warnings of losing salvation because on not doing works when it was written specifically to the Jews to remind them of the law going out and the grace coming in. We show our faith by our works. We don't get our faith by our works. Yet since the beginning of the Bible people use those verses to try and prove we have to work for our salvation and faith is in vain.

Same with the verses in 1 John about he who hates his "brother" is a murderer and no murderer has a place with God. (But the Jews called their unbelieving Jews "brothers") in actuality the Word is identifying those who 'hate' are not of God those who 'love' are of God.

There is much more to this and I'd love to study this out more here if possible.

2 Tim.3:16 Every Scripture is God breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience and for training in righteousness in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought , purpose and action

17. So the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work. Amplified Bible.

A friend of mine here was also asking about this topic and how it sounds like what is being said is anything after Jesus death is not for the new covenant believer and I was trying to explain that we have to read in context what is for us and what is to us. Those words FOR and TO make a major difference in how we read the Bible. Be back later....

Dispensational teaching as well.
Some parts of Scripture is specifically to Israel, other parts is to the Church...and all Scripture is for both.

 

[kathryn]

I would be labeled as "greasy Grace" and " hyper Grace." Considering our flesh and sin nature...........I have no way saying grace is not hyper in the salvation of a man.

If the believer is a LOSER and follows the flesh after salvation........They are a loser of rewards and the opportunity to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ in time.

If the believer is a WINNER and follows the Spirit........they are a winner of rewards and they took hold of the opportunity to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ in time.

The loser and winner believer are SAVED and go to heaven. But they lose or gain rewards,ranks,crowns,inheritance.

I will be labeled "greasy Grace" or "hyper grace" and I wear it proudly. The "hyper" grace of our Lord Jesus Christ is antagonized and nullified in this world................Just the way satan wants it. Because it(hyper grace) saves men.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. PERIOD. then we have the privilege to glorify Him. Many believers choose the easy route and continue on in their flesh. Few continue on in the Spirit. Both are saved......hyper grace.

Are we to familiar with this?

New American Standard Bible
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Many believers choose the easy route and continue on in the flesh, few continue on in the spirit, both are saved....hyper grace



Supposing you are right. Do you believe the ones who take the easy route are qualified to, or should preach?

 

[ladylynn]

Dispensational teaching as well.
Some parts of Scripture is specifically to Israel, other parts is to the Church...and all Scripture is for both.

Right. We were taught some very good teaching from the start on many of these issues of doctrine in the fundamental Baptist church we went too. I have since modified what has been taught to what I've personally come to see through personal reading and living and HolySpirit leading. I'm a sort of dispensationalist but not one that is over the top who doesn't consider anything else. It's pretty important to know when the Bible is referring to the Jews and not to take what is said to the Jews and take it ourselves.

The verse about 'there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin' was too the Jews who would consider going back to the law and not believe on Jesus. It's either Jesus or nothing because Jesus is the only choice for life, all other 'ways' are death.

But as you know, many Christians have taken that verse to mean if they sin willfully after the flesh their remains no more sacrifice for sin. We all have sinned 'willfully' after we got saved., no one tied us up and forced us to do it against our will. Yet many Christians live in fear because it's obviously IN the Bible.

 

[ladylynn]

I was really just trying to find out if I am anti-nomian or not.

I'll wear the label proudly if I can figure out if the label is true.


I have no problems with labels and descriptions. I'm not sure why everyone is so scared of them.

Why can't we just define terms and see where we differ and find out why we differ?

Aww Grandpa your such a nice guy. I felt like you were going to finish your post saying "Why can't we just all get along" But you ended up saying something even better!

 

[ladylynn]

I would be labeled as "greasy Grace" and " hyper Grace." Considering our flesh and sin nature...........I have no way saying grace is not hyper in the salvation of a man.

If the believer is a LOSER and follows the flesh after salvation........They are a loser of rewards and the opportunity to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ in time.

If the believer is a WINNER and follows the Spirit........they are a winner of rewards and they took hold of the opportunity to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ in time.

The loser and winner believer are SAVED and go to heaven. But they lose or gain rewards,ranks,crowns,inheritance.

I will be labeled "greasy Grace" or "hyper grace" and I wear it proudly. The "hyper" grace of our Lord Jesus Christ is antagonized and nullified in this world................Just the way satan wants it. Because it(hyper grace) saves men.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. PERIOD. then we have the privilege to glorify Him. Many believers choose the easy route and continue on in their flesh. Few continue on in the Spirit. Both are saved......hyper grace.

Are we to familiar with this?

New American Standard Bible
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Been doing some thinking on this subject while listening to CDs and doing some reading on the night shift at work. Remember when we first got saved and all was new and beautiful and worry free? We wondered WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS!!!????? I GOTTA GO TELL MY PARENTS AND ALL MY FRIENDS!! Then we began to get a dose of our loved ones totally thinking we were crazy and everyone saying we got brainwashed. But we don't let it deter us because being loved and saved is the best news we ever heard.

Then as we started going to church regularly ., we start hanging around other seasoned Christians who long lost their joy and they say ... this is your honeymoon stage soon you will calm down like us. I distinctly remembered being shocked and scared it would happen like they said.

The rules started coming in., the way to dress., the proper amount of hours to spend in prayer., the right version of Bible you should read and for how long you should read... how often you should go to church (every time the door is open) and soon, joy is gone and the wondering if we really got saved or if God was mad at us cause we didn't do enough in church, we don't read and pray enough like the other Christians.

Soon we realized we were just like everyone else so that MUST be good since they are saved., We as a family got into the same rut and just did the perfunctory 'things' all Christians do.,church membership, sunday school., awana leaders, deacon., treasurer, sunday school teacher.,trustee.... VBS., At church many days of the week and our lawn didn't get mowed and our time was spread very thin., feeling angry and over whelmed., over wrought.

Looking back on this I see we just left one man made religion for another and worked our way through our Christianity with our own strength for many years. Had no idea what the HolySpirit did except seal us until the day of redemption and helped us understand the Bible. But we thought God was always mad at us or at least VERY disappointed. We could never do as much as we should and ended up losing heart and being discouraged and empty. This caused us to dread reading the Bible but we knew we had to.,We were not taught about Jesus giving us imputed righteousness that stands regardless of our feelings of lacking all the time.

Since finding out about grace and the Holy Spirit it is like when I first heard the good news of Jesus Christ and His love and salvation to all who come. That assurance and security knowing God was taking care of me and would never leave me no matter what. The reading of scripture is amazing and there is tons to learn about. And now I know why.

When we first get saved we are so open to the HolySpirit because it is He who leads us to all truth. That new birth and seeing the truth for the first time. But that was all before we had a chance to bring our own thinking into the relationship., and our human rational that reasoned away such faith.

The verse about rivers of living water flowing out of your belly is true. There are lots of saved people who are not happy or joyful. Have so much lack and can't understand why. Living their lives as best as they can and long ago believed that this time on earth was just a waiting period when in fact it is a time of doing and being for Jesus joyfully. The JOY of the Lord is really meant to be our strength.

Through the working of the HolySpirit in and through us and He really does make Himself known in us. For me it is a knowing and a inner joy that is not susceptible to the changing circumstances of the natural. And that is so wonderful because He ministers to the inner man and fills us with His presence in the heart. You feel like you can soar like an eagle and run and not be weary.,just like the Bible says

And that knowing is what I've come to see as the rivers of living water flowing out of the belly. Like I've heard it said, when people get upset or bothered, we are effected in our guts. Isn't it interesting that the Bible tells us the rivers are flowing from our bellys??

When our family were first taught about the HolySpirit in church, We were taught that any manifestation or seeking of the Holy Spirit stuff was of the devil so I always avoided anything to do with that sort of relationship with the HolySpirit. I'm shocked to find out most of the people who have been so kind and sweet to me over the years were the ones who knew about the Holy Spirit's ministry to believers. The ones who didn't were much like I was. Easily angered., ready for a fight., ready to defend. All stuff of the flesh having rule. My husband had ulcers when we were involved in church on such a stressful schedule. Took ulcer medication. He had a hole in his gut. These things are just all very interesting now as they are looked back on and remembered this Christmas eve night.

 

[kathryn]

I was really just trying to find out if I am anti-nomian or not.

I'll wear the label proudly if I can figure out if the label is true.


I have no problems with labels and descriptions. I'm not sure why everyone is so scared of them.

Why can't we just define terms and see where we differ and find out why we differ?

Is it possible that two people( or groups of people) each preach half the message?


But now a righteousness from God apart from law has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify.
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe Romans 3:21&22


For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person, such a man is an idolator has any inheritance in the kingdom of God and of Christ.
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things Gods wrath comes on those who are disobedient

Eph 5:5&6

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Listened to a great message on the way to work yesterday. The books of the Bible are written "FOR" all Christians but there are specific things were not written "TO" all Christians. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and in all his letters to the church we find doctrine and how to order and conduct ourselves as a church body. About how Jesus is coming again, communion., Marriage,encouragement etc.... how to do the Christian life. Paul ministered to the gentiles and the apostles all agreed on that. Peter, James and John and Jude were apostles to the Jews and specifically writes to the believing Jews. But the books are also for gentiles but some of the writings in the book were not specifically 'to' gentiles. I have found this amazingly fascinating on how to read and understand the Bible.

Being as some of these were personal letters like 1-2 Timothy about instruction.

Then the other books were written specifically to believing Jews and reaching out to the unbelieving Jews and other Jews called the "dispersion" who were learning some major changes in how God was dealing with them because the Messiah had actually come and many were on the fence about that and went back to animal sacrifices. Many did not accept the Gospel.

Hebrews for instance was written to the Hebrews. Yet many believers today use the warnings of losing salvation because on not doing works when it was written specifically to the Jews to remind them of the law going out and the grace coming in. We show our faith by our works. We don't get our faith by our works. Yet since the beginning of the Bible people use those verses to try and prove we have to work for our salvation and faith is in vain.

Same with the verses in 1 John about he who hates his "brother" is a murderer and no murderer has a place with God. (But the Jews called their unbelieving Jews "brothers") in actuality the Word is identifying those who 'hate' are not of God those who 'love' are of God.

There is much more to this and I'd love to study this out more here if possible.

2 Tim.3:16 Every Scripture is God breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience and for training in righteousness in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought , purpose and action

17. So the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work. Amplified Bible.

A friend of mine here was also asking about this topic and how it sounds like what is being said is anything after Jesus death is not for the new covenant believer and I was trying to explain that we have to read in context what is for us and what is to us. Those words FOR and TO make a major difference in how we read the Bible. Be back later....


[/B]

Maybe it would be nice to do a study on textual criticism.

I am amazed how many churches do not use the basic means of interpreting the word. and just pull verses out of no where which appear to say one thing, when a little study would lead anyone to know that is not what is being said at all.

We need context in the passage yes, but we also need historical context. Language, and other things.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Is it possible that two people( or groups of people) each preach half the message?

But now a righteousness from God apart from law has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify.
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe Romans 3:21&22

For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person, such a man is an idolator has any inheritance in the kingdom of God and of Christ.
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things Gods wrath comes on those who are disobedient

Eph 5:5&6

I think it all boils down to is how is lawfullness apart from the law accomplished?

Legalists think it can't be accomplished without doing something to justify themselves, and become lawless (because they are not trusting in GOD's justification).

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17

...whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23​

Modern-Grace adherents think it can't be accomplished by doing anything to sanctify themselves, and become lawless (because they are not practicing sanctification).

Therefore, to the one who knows to do good and does not do [it], to him it is sin. James 4:17​

These IMO represent the two extremes.

The truth is that it is accomplished through believing and trusting in GOD's justification (historical) and abiding forgiveness, and loving ourselves and others like ourselves, whatever that may entail (which sanctifies us, and proves and establishes our faith).

And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints). Revelation 19:8​

 

[Grandpa]

Is it possible that two people( or groups of people) each preach half the message?

No, not really.

I think a person can preach law for people who are coming to Christ.

But after they come to Christ it is Grace.

But now a righteousness from God apart from law has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify.
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe Romans 3:21&22


For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person, such a man is an idolator has any inheritance in the kingdom of God and of Christ.
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things Gods wrath comes on those who are disobedient

Eph 5:5&6

I think the righteousness apart from the law through faith in Jesus Christ is the cause of a person being moral and pure. Through the giving of the Holy Spirit and growing of the Holy Spirit in abiding in Christ.

In other words, you can't have one without the other. You can't be moral and pure without Christ. And you can't be immoral and impure after coming to Christ, for any extended period...