The Pendulum Has Swung.

[KennethC]

If we go thinking that there is a different set of standards under the NEW COVENANT for Gentile believers and Jewish believers; Then we need to go back and do some more studying !!!

There is only ONE Lord, ONE gospel (doctrine), and ONE faith................


This whole teaching that this only applies to this group of new covenant believers, but not to other new covenant believers is a wrong and dangerous approach.

Following only the parts you feel like following and throwing other parts out is dangerous !!!

The Apostle Paul understood this as he preached to the Gentiles, which is why he warned about not preaching another gospel, another Jesus, and to stand firm in what Jesus already laid out in His teachings.

Paul never moved or did away with anything Jesus said, as he expounded and touched on each subject the Lord taught.

Paul, Peter, John, and James all four stood firm in what Jesus taught and passed those teachings on !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No, not really.

I think a person can preach law for people who are coming to Christ.

But after they come to Christ it is Grace.




I think the righteousness apart from the law through faith in Jesus Christ is the cause of a person being moral and pure. Through the giving of the Holy Spirit and growing of the Holy Spirit in abiding in Christ.

In other words, you can't have one without the other. You can't be moral and pure without Christ. And you can't be immoral and impure after coming to Christ, for any extended period...

I would like to add that any limit to GOD's grace is not due to any limit of his grace, but to sin's effect of searing the conscience and hardening the heart, which prevents faith.

 

[KennethC]

Many believers choose the easy route and continue on in the flesh, few continue on in the spirit, both are saved....hyper grace



Supposing you are right. Do you believe the ones who take the easy route are qualified to, or should preach?

That is completely wrong as Paul clearly shows that continuing in the flesh is to be carnally minded, and the Word of God expressly shows the carnally minded are not saved.

Continuing in the flesh shows either no Holy Spirit working within them, or a denial of His guidance which is equally as bad.

This whole teaching of unrepented sinners, or showing of no true repentance, is a dangerous teaching.



This whole context derives from watering down Jesus message of "believe in Him and you will be saved."

They state the believe part but do not go into detail of what believing in Him entails, or they state the common He came in the flesh, died on the cross, and rose on the third day.

That is true but is only partial truth as we need to dig into Jesus teachings to see what HIS definition of believing in Him entails. He said those who come, hear, and do what He said are His (LUKE 6:46-49).

JOHN 3:16 is one of the most quoted verses in the bible, but hardly is the rest of the chapter especially JOHN 3:21 quoted that again says those who do........Jesus and Apostle James both confirm hearers only but not doers are deceived !!!

 

[dcontroversal]

YEAH I noticed.....especially since I have taken a little time away.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I SEE you still spreading your heretical message..........and leading people astray.........you should repent and actually trust Christ instead of your working for salvation dogma Kenneth....

That is completely wrong as Paul clearly shows that continuing in the flesh is to be carnally minded, and the Word of God expressly shows the carnally minded are not saved.

Continuing in the flesh shows either no Holy Spirit working within them, or a denial of His guidance which is equally as bad.

This whole teaching of unrepented sinners, or showing of no true repentance, is a dangerous teaching.



This whole context derives from watering down Jesus message of "believe in Him and you will be saved."

They state the believe part but do not go into detail of what believing in Him entails, or they state the common He came in the flesh, died on the cross, and rose on the third day.

That is true but is only partial truth as we need to dig into Jesus teachings to see what HIS definition of believing in Him entails. He said those who come, hear, and do what He said are His (LUKE 6:46-49).

JOHN 3:16 is one of the most quoted verses in the bible, but hardly is the rest of the chapter especially JOHN 3:21 quoted that again says those who do........Jesus and Apostle James both confirm hearers only but not doers are deceived !!!

 

[ladylynn]

This was re posted in the family section and it applies to this thread as well. So I'm going to post it here. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE.


[h=2]Joseph Prince daily devotional[/h]

Meditate On
…”God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
1 Peter 5:5
God Uses The Humble

In his first 40 years as an Egyptian prince who was looked up to and admired, Moses thought that he knew everything. The Bible says that he was “mighty in words and deeds” (Acts 7:22). Yet, God could not use him to deliver His people from slavery in Egypt.
But in the next 40 years, something happened to Moses. He had fled Egypt after killing an Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew, and went to dwell in the Midian desert. He became a shepherd and was no longer considered mighty in words nor deeds. In fact, he had even become a stutterer (Exodus 4:10). And it was at this point in his life, when he probably thought that he was a has-been, and that his glory-days were behind him, that God appeared to him and said, “…I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people…out of Egypt” (Exodus 3:10). God could finally use Moses!
The Bible tells us that “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” Beloved, God will not impose His grace on us. Whenever we want to depend on ourselves and our wisdom to succeed, He will step aside and allow us to do so. His grace is given to those who humbly acknowledge that they cannot succeed in their own strengths and abilities. So when we let go of our self-efforts and humbly depend on His grace, He will take over and do in us and through us what we cannot do for ourselves!

Blessings,
Joseph Prince​

 

[Magenta]

I would like to add that any limit to GOD's grace is not due to any limit of his grace, but to sin's effect of searing the conscience and hardening the heart, which prevents faith.

I would say prevents belief, since faith is a gift that follows belief.

 

[ladylynn]

If we go thinking that there is a different set of standards under the NEW COVENANT for Gentile believers and Jewish believers; Then we need to go back and do some more studying !!!

There is only ONE Lord, ONE gospel (doctrine), and ONE faith................


This whole teaching that this only applies to this group of new covenant believers, but not to other new covenant believers is a wrong and dangerous approach.

Following only the parts you feel like following and throwing other parts out is dangerous !!!

The Apostle Paul understood this as he preached to the Gentiles, which is why he warned about not preaching another gospel, another Jesus, and to stand firm in what Jesus already laid out in His teachings.

Paul never moved or did away with anything Jesus said, as he expounded and touched on each subject the Lord taught.

Paul, Peter, John, and James all four stood firm in what Jesus taught and passed those teachings on !!!

Kenneth., what you are missing is that the standard has not changed., the standard is perfection and us humans cannot meet that standard no matter how hard we WANT to be perfect., no matter how well we follow the 10 commandments. Remember., the law is perfect but it has no power to make anyone perfect., the law is right but it has no power to make anyone righteous. So Jesus was sent to BE our perfect sacrifice.,He is our perfect lamb that just as in the old testament people brought a lamb without blemish or spot and the lambs perfection went on the one who brought it and the one's sin went to the perfect lamb..(imputation) So God looks at the perfection of the lamb.

Now under the new covenant of grace, God's law of perfection has not changed, but His Son met that requirement FOR us and we walk away with Jesus's perfect IMPUTED righteousness. The standard has not changed but the covenant totally has. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU AND YOURS!!

 

[ladylynn]

Actually I came to the grace table sort of speak and began to believe literally what the Bible says about "having received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may know the things that have been freely given to us by God." 1 Corinthians 2:12 and then later I came upon Joseph Prince on tv. He is the first preacher I have heard that talks of Grace like this.

Many Christians find it hard to take freely from God without trying to "do" something first. It's so foreign to the 20th century christian. We are taught to attain but, attaining something that has been freely given is impossible. I later found out that is was a gift all along to be RECEIVED just like for salvation. RECEIVED NOT ATTAINED

Sadly I can't find many Christians who accept this without labeling with the "prosperity gospel" stamp and or saying this is advocating sin so grace will abound. Or insisting on human crying and emotion when it comes to repentance when really repentance is a change of mind not always associated with sorrow. I have since found out that God wants faith in what His Son Jesus did and to continue to learn of Him...beholding Jesus and then we will be transformed by the renewing of our minds... that is true repentance... a mind changed and renewed so the christian can actually "do" from a true heart belief.

Grace teaches us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we are to live soberly righteously and godly in this present world.....

I am now of the mindset of the prodigal son, who deserved nothing, but received everything Luke 15:11-24 How to share that with other Christians?? Some automatically say because there is no fear you will sin. But I'm seeing the truth of the Bible that says perfect love (believing in God's love for us) casts out fear.

It's amazing to see it all through the filter of God's unmerited favor "grace" it is the key that opened the doors to the promises. Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe, sin had left a crimson stain,., He washed it white as snow. Romans 6

Is there anyone else here who has been set free from the place of sin and has been brought into the place of "righteousness" that Jesus secured for them? Most of the references to sin in the NT are referring to sin (noun) not action word (verb) we were once in a place of sin, now we are in that place of righteousness. So we can come boldly to the throne of grace. No longer dragging condemnation and shame.

Romans 6:15 is a sinful action and deed, but everywhere else in Romans sin is a noun already demolished by Jesus, finished and done with for us. Jesus said it is finished.,never to be repeated. Sins removal is done. "For he who has died is free from sin" (noun) This is amazing.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under law but under grace" The death that Jesus died He died ONCE and for all. likewise in the same manner.... you are to recon yourself dead to sin and alive to God. He is not dying gradually to sin. He finished it.

The letters of Paul do not speak of the christian carrying his cross. WOW. because Jesus already took up the cross. WE have this inheritence. Enjoying the wealth in Christ is about reconning our selves dead to sin. we r not free from the verb sin, but free from the NOUN sin. Unless we understand what it means to be dead to sin ...the noun... we wont have power to not sin (verb) Jesus knew no sin. He took our sin. He died to the imputation of sin., that is the only sin He had.. what He took from us. How did He become sin ? by receiving our sin. How do we become righteous? by receiving His righteousness. His righteousness was "imputed" to us. Romans 5. by one mans sin we were all made sinners.... sinners are sinners because of Adams sin. we were in that place of sin., needing to be born again.
by ONE mans obedience (Jesus) many are made righteous. wowzo These are some of the amazing doctrines of grace I've heard and read this year. Romans 5:19-21
For just as by one man's disobedience (failing to hear, heedlessness and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man's obedience the many will be constituted rigtheous (made acceptable to God brought into right standing with Him
20 But then Law came in, (only) to expand and increase the trespass (making it more apparent and exciting opposition) But where sin increased and abounded, grace (God's unmerited favor) has surpassed it and increased the more and superabounded.
21. So that (just) as sin has reigned in death, (so) grace (His unearned and undeserved favor) might reign also through righteousness (right standing with God) which issues in eternal life through Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) our Lord. Amplified Bible

The warfare is bringing our thoughts 'to' looking at the obedience of Christ... not looking at our obedience. Unless we are dead to the condemnation of sin we will not have the power not to sin. It is then we are empowered to sin no more when we understand what the grace of God has done in sending Jesus who took all the condemnation and guilt of sin ONCE and for all. Law produces condemnation. So the devil has succeeded to put it into our heads that grace is dangerous and law is good. The law is the strength of sin.

Our obedience does not produce righteousness. It is a gift given by the death of Jesus on the cross. Amen!!

 

[crossnote]

The Balanced Pendulum...

Grace is God's doing not ours.
Faith is our responsibility to direct, not God's responsibility.

Have Faith in Jesus....

2 Let us ·look only to [keep our eyes on] Jesus, the ·One who began [Pioneer/Founder of; or Leader/Prince of] our faith and who ·makes it perfect [completes it]. He ·suffered death on [endured] the cross, ·accepting the shame as if it were nothing [disregarding/despising the shame] because of the joy that ·God put before [lay ahead for] him. And now he is sitting at the right ·side [hand] of God’s throne [1:3; 13; Ps. 110:1]. [Expanded Bible]

 

[Grandpa]

Well that little pendulum thing didn't last long...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well that little pendulum thing didn't last long...

The latest Modern Grace traffic basically is driven by one person, as the law thing was. Once that person was no longer here it died down significantly, almost to the point of non-existence.

 

[crossnote]

That is completely wrong as Paul clearly shows that continuing in the flesh is to be carnally minded, and the Word of God expressly shows the carnally minded are not saved.

Continuing in the flesh shows either no Holy Spirit working within them, or a denial of His guidance which is equally as bad.

This whole teaching of unrepented sinners, or showing of no true repentance, is a dangerous teaching.



This whole context derives from watering down Jesus message of "believe in Him and you will be saved."

They state the believe part but do not go into detail of what believing in Him entails, or they state the common He came in the flesh, died on the cross, and rose on the third day.

That is true but is only partial truth as we need to dig into Jesus teachings to see what HIS definition of believing in Him entails. He said those who come, hear, and do what He said are His (LUKE 6:46-49).

JOHN 3:16 is one of the most quoted verses in the bible, but hardly is the rest of the chapter especially JOHN 3:21 quoted that again says those who do........Jesus and Apostle James both confirm hearers only but not doers are deceived !!!

Believing in Jesus is defined here in picture form...

John 3:14-15 KJVS
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: [15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

You know the story...Israelites sinning, judgment came, Moses was told to lift up a bronze serpent that who ever looked upon would be healed. The bronze...a picture of our judgment upon Christ who took our curse.