Revelation Timeline
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It is your interpretation that the white horse is the antichrist, is it not? If Scriptures reveals that the anti-christ is the white horse then reveal the Scriptures which teach that, if you can't, then it is your interpretation that the white horse is the anti-christ and not what Scriptures teach.
But don't get me wrong, i believed as you are saying for most of my life, and it makes since what you are saying, but here is something i don't think you have thought about. The 7 year Tribulation period is the wrath of God. These are acts of God, that can only come from God and not from men. If you examine the first five seals, they are brought about by Men, wars, killing each other, killing Christians, Death. All five seals are results of men against humankind. It is only at the 6th seal that the wrath of God, coming from God begins. Verse 17 testifies this "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand. The first 5 seals did not say God's wrath has come. It is ONLY on the 6th seal does it plainly teach that the great day of His wrath has come, this is the Start of the 7 year Tribulation Period. That is the Truth.
^i^ to be continued.
But don't get me wrong, i believed as you are saying for most of my life, and it makes since what you are saying, but here is something i don't think you have thought about. The 7 year Tribulation period is the wrath of God. These are acts of God, that can only come from God and not from men. If you examine the first five seals, they are brought about by Men, wars, killing each other, killing Christians, Death. All five seals are results of men against humankind. It is only at the 6th seal that the wrath of God, coming from God begins. Verse 17 testifies this "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand. The first 5 seals did not say God's wrath has come. It is ONLY on the 6th seal does it plainly teach that the great day of His wrath has come, this is the Start of the 7 year Tribulation Period. That is the Truth.
^i^ to be continued.
Again, YOUR interpretation. Did i not ask in my post this:
Yet so far all you have done is given YOUR interpretation. YOU say "The Male Child is a collective name for the 144,000" If that is not your opinion, then reveal the Scriptures which teach that. Scriptures does not teach that at all, nor does it even imply that. Please show Scriptures which teaches what you are teaching. Scriptures plainly teaches there are 12,000 chosen from each tribe. Consider what the Word of God says about the 144,000 that are chosen.
Rev_7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev_7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev_7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev_7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev_7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Do you believe the Scriptures, that there are 12,000 chosen from each tribe, or do you have to explain these Scriptures away in order to hold on to your belief?
Rev_14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Who, according to this Inspired by God Scripture was standing with Jesus on Mount Sion? Does it not plainly teach it is the 144,000? Yes it is the 144,000. NOT a "Male Child is a collective name for the 144,000" But it is actually a 144,000 that will stand with Jesus on Mount Sion. Fact, and Scriptural.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Please notice, all these verses are talking about the 144,000 that were chosen. Please notice the bold words above, all plural referring to the 144,000 chosen and sealed by God.
Again, more of your opinions. You use the fact that they sing a new song that no one else is able to learn to indicate to you that means this group will not be subservient to any other group of Saints. How in all of Heaven does the fact that they sing a new song, means the SAINTS and JESUS does not reign over them? You do error by teaching these things that you do not understand. How does singing a new song mean or even implied that they do not have to obey anyone? How does singing a new song mean they will not be reigned over? lol, you do not know what you are talking about in this matter. Nor will you listen to someone who has been told by God how it will all happen.
Rev_14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
How are they redeemed from the Earth? How are they firstfruits? The Earth and Atmosphere is going to be destroyed. The Saints will be Raptured, the wicked shall perish on the Earth, and those who are born 3 1/2 years before the Rapture, and those who are born 3 1/2 years after the Rapture, will be redeemed from the OLD Earth, and they will be on the New Earth and live on the Earth for a thousand Years, having offspring with them. A person will live to see their great, great, great, great, great grandchildern. We, that is Jesus and the Saints that are Raptured with Him, will reign on the Earth.
Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
We shall reign on the Earth? Huh? How do we reign ON THE EARTH? We (Jesus and the Saints) reign on the EARTH, what do we reign over? barren, waste land, an Earth that is void? Read Isaiah chapter 11 AND chapter 65:17-25, which is a description of the Earth Condition that will be Present when Jesus gets here and sets up His Kingdom ON EARTH. It will be a New Heaven and a New Atmosphere, and the 144,000 are the ONLY humans to escape the 7 year Tribulation Period. They will be children, they will be virgins, they will not know what a lie is, they will not even know what sin is, these are redeemed from the Earth, to continue the human population on EARTH, which we (Jesus and the Saints) WILL reign over.
^i^ Continued
Yet so far all you have done is given YOUR interpretation. YOU say "The Male Child is a collective name for the 144,000" If that is not your opinion, then reveal the Scriptures which teach that. Scriptures does not teach that at all, nor does it even imply that. Please show Scriptures which teaches what you are teaching. Scriptures plainly teaches there are 12,000 chosen from each tribe. Consider what the Word of God says about the 144,000 that are chosen.
Rev_7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev_7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev_7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev_7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev_7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Do you believe the Scriptures, that there are 12,000 chosen from each tribe, or do you have to explain these Scriptures away in order to hold on to your belief?
Rev_14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Who, according to this Inspired by God Scripture was standing with Jesus on Mount Sion? Does it not plainly teach it is the 144,000? Yes it is the 144,000. NOT a "Male Child is a collective name for the 144,000" But it is actually a 144,000 that will stand with Jesus on Mount Sion. Fact, and Scriptural.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Please notice, all these verses are talking about the 144,000 that were chosen. Please notice the bold words above, all plural referring to the 144,000 chosen and sealed by God.
Again, more of your opinions. You use the fact that they sing a new song that no one else is able to learn to indicate to you that means this group will not be subservient to any other group of Saints. How in all of Heaven does the fact that they sing a new song, means the SAINTS and JESUS does not reign over them? You do error by teaching these things that you do not understand. How does singing a new song mean or even implied that they do not have to obey anyone? How does singing a new song mean they will not be reigned over? lol, you do not know what you are talking about in this matter. Nor will you listen to someone who has been told by God how it will all happen.
Rev_14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
How are they redeemed from the Earth? How are they firstfruits? The Earth and Atmosphere is going to be destroyed. The Saints will be Raptured, the wicked shall perish on the Earth, and those who are born 3 1/2 years before the Rapture, and those who are born 3 1/2 years after the Rapture, will be redeemed from the OLD Earth, and they will be on the New Earth and live on the Earth for a thousand Years, having offspring with them. A person will live to see their great, great, great, great, great grandchildern. We, that is Jesus and the Saints that are Raptured with Him, will reign on the Earth.
Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
We shall reign on the Earth? Huh? How do we reign ON THE EARTH? We (Jesus and the Saints) reign on the EARTH, what do we reign over? barren, waste land, an Earth that is void? Read Isaiah chapter 11 AND chapter 65:17-25, which is a description of the Earth Condition that will be Present when Jesus gets here and sets up His Kingdom ON EARTH. It will be a New Heaven and a New Atmosphere, and the 144,000 are the ONLY humans to escape the 7 year Tribulation Period. They will be children, they will be virgins, they will not know what a lie is, they will not even know what sin is, these are redeemed from the Earth, to continue the human population on EARTH, which we (Jesus and the Saints) WILL reign over.
^i^ Continued
The above is what I believe and what I have been proclaiming on this Forum since I've been here.
But what you are not taking into consideration Dave, is the fact that those wars and men killing each other and the great tribulation Saints who are being killed, is being initiated by the Lamb, Jesus Christ, who is the One opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and then into the bowl judgments. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are all included as belonging to the wrath of God.
The announcement that "the great day of their wrath has come" at the opening of the 6th seal also includes the results of the first four seals, which will be a fourth of the earth's inhabitants being killed, and as previously stated, Jesus is the One who is opening seals.
"And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and he was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6He opened his mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7Also he was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them."
"I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest."
The first seal rider on the white horse is said to have been given a crown, which would be that ruler, that antichrist, of whom the whole world will worship. He is also said to ride out as a conqueror bent on conquest, which would be synonymous with the scripture in Rev.13 which states that he is given power over the saints to make war against them and to conquer them for forty-two months, which is that last 3 1/2 years. And which is also in reference to him having authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. Regarding this antichrist/beast conquering the saints, Dan7:25 refers to the same event:
"He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[SUP]"[/SUP]
The first seal rider on the white horse is meant to be a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11-21 who is the Lord, which would also demonstrate that the fist seal rider is that pseudo-Christ.
But what you are not taking into consideration Dave, is the fact that those wars and men killing each other and the great tribulation Saints who are being killed, is being initiated by the Lamb, Jesus Christ, who is the One opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and then into the bowl judgments. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are all included as belonging to the wrath of God.
The announcement that "the great day of their wrath has come" at the opening of the 6th seal also includes the results of the first four seals, which will be a fourth of the earth's inhabitants being killed, and as previously stated, Jesus is the One who is opening seals.
"And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and he was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6He opened his mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7Also he was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them."
"I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest."
The first seal rider on the white horse is said to have been given a crown, which would be that ruler, that antichrist, of whom the whole world will worship. He is also said to ride out as a conqueror bent on conquest, which would be synonymous with the scripture in Rev.13 which states that he is given power over the saints to make war against them and to conquer them for forty-two months, which is that last 3 1/2 years. And which is also in reference to him having authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. Regarding this antichrist/beast conquering the saints, Dan7:25 refers to the same event:
"He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[SUP]"[/SUP]
The first seal rider on the white horse is meant to be a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11-21 who is the Lord, which would also demonstrate that the fist seal rider is that pseudo-Christ.
"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter[/quote]
First of all, I don't give my personal interpretations, but expound on what is revealed in scripture. According to Joseph's dream in Gen.37:9-10, the woman of Revelation 12 who is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and is wearing a crown of twelve stars, is the nation Israel. The woman/Israel gives birth to a "Male Child who is caught up to God and to his throne before the dragon can kill it. In Rev.14 we read the following:
"Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
In Rev.7, the 144,000 are sealed as the first fruits to God out of Israel. Here in Rev.14:4, it is said that this group will have not defiled themselves with woman, which would demonstrate that this group of 144,000 are all males, ergo, "Male Child." Just as it is with so many things in Revelation, this is a subtle hint from God to lead the one who is studying to understand who the male child is. In other words, out of Israel will come 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah, which is what the meaning is to the reference of the woman/Israel giving birth to a male child. Regarding this, there are those who would claim that Jesus is the male child, except for the fact that Jesus does not fit the criteria of the male child. The male child is caught up to God's throne before the dragon can devour/kill them, whereas, Jesus was crucified and resurrection.
If you would stop ranting and go back and read, you will see that I have always proclaimed that the 144,000 are 12,000 from each of the literal twelve tribes of Israel, with the exception of Manasseh who is standing in for the tribe of Dan. By the way, proclaiming that these are "my opinions" is a typical maneuver to discredit the other person, which is what you are attempting to do. You also misquote me in various things. For example:
"How in all of Heaven does the fact that they sing a new song, means the SAINTS and JESUS does not reign over them? [/quote]
I referenced those 144,000 singing a new song that only they could learn, demonstrating that they are not an inferior group, to counter what you said about the saints reigning over the 144,000 in your post. I did not say that Jesus does not reign over them. Of course Jesus reigns over them, as he does all of the saints.
"They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb."
So regarding the above scripture, do you understand now how I could come to the conclusion that the 144,000 are the first fruits to God out of Israel?
Again, you are putting words in my mouth, for I never said that 144,000 don't have to obey anyone. What I did say is that, the other saints do not reign over the 144,000. Please get your quotes right.
When Christ returns to the earth to end the age, he is obviously going to have to do some clean up and that because this present earth will have suffered much through the that seven years of God's wrath. The woman/Israel, who will be cared for out in desert for that last 3 1/2 years, as well as those great tribulation saints who make it through alive when Christ returns to end the age, will be those who will repopulate the earth during the millennial period. The church will have already been resurrected and caught up prior to the beginning of God's wrath and therefore, will already be in their glorified bodies and will rule with Christ during that thousand years over those who will be populating the earth in their mortal bodies.
At the end of the thousand years, after Satan's last rebellion, he will then be thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown into a thousand years earlier. Then, the unrighteous dead will be resurrected out of Hades and will stand before God at the great white thrown judgment, where anyone's name that is not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. At that time death and Hades will also be thrown into the lake of fire. Sometime during the great white throne judgment, this current heaven and earth will depart/pass away. After the great white throne judgment has taken place, according to Revelation 21 & 22, God will create a new heaven and new earth, with the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven to the new earth.
You have no idea what you are taking about! The 144,000 will have been caught up to God's throne and changed into their glorified bodies, which takes place in the middle of that seven year period and so they will not even be here for that last 3 1/2 years. Those who do survive, will be those great tribulation saints who are not killed during the great tribulation and the woman/Israel who will have been cared for by God out in the desert during that last 3 1/2 years. These two groups will be those who will repopulate the earth.
Speaking of personal interpretations, please show us where scripture states that these 144,000 are going to be children and that they will not even know what sin is? If anything, scripture demonstrates that they are adult males and that because it is said of them, that will not have defiled themselves with women. It would be a moot point to mention that if they were in fact only children. Furthermore, the fact that these 144,000 are said to be "redeemed" would demonstrate that they are sinners and that Christ is their Savior. To be redeemed means that a ransom was paid, that is, to buy back, which is exactly what Christ did for all believers, the ransom being the shedding of his blood.
First of all, I don't give my personal interpretations, but expound on what is revealed in scripture. According to Joseph's dream in Gen.37:9-10, the woman of Revelation 12 who is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and is wearing a crown of twelve stars, is the nation Israel. The woman/Israel gives birth to a "Male Child who is caught up to God and to his throne before the dragon can kill it. In Rev.14 we read the following:
"Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
In Rev.7, the 144,000 are sealed as the first fruits to God out of Israel. Here in Rev.14:4, it is said that this group will have not defiled themselves with woman, which would demonstrate that this group of 144,000 are all males, ergo, "Male Child." Just as it is with so many things in Revelation, this is a subtle hint from God to lead the one who is studying to understand who the male child is. In other words, out of Israel will come 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah, which is what the meaning is to the reference of the woman/Israel giving birth to a male child. Regarding this, there are those who would claim that Jesus is the male child, except for the fact that Jesus does not fit the criteria of the male child. The male child is caught up to God's throne before the dragon can devour/kill them, whereas, Jesus was crucified and resurrection.
If you would stop ranting and go back and read, you will see that I have always proclaimed that the 144,000 are 12,000 from each of the literal twelve tribes of Israel, with the exception of Manasseh who is standing in for the tribe of Dan. By the way, proclaiming that these are "my opinions" is a typical maneuver to discredit the other person, which is what you are attempting to do. You also misquote me in various things. For example:
"How in all of Heaven does the fact that they sing a new song, means the SAINTS and JESUS does not reign over them? [/quote]
I referenced those 144,000 singing a new song that only they could learn, demonstrating that they are not an inferior group, to counter what you said about the saints reigning over the 144,000 in your post. I did not say that Jesus does not reign over them. Of course Jesus reigns over them, as he does all of the saints.
"They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb."
So regarding the above scripture, do you understand now how I could come to the conclusion that the 144,000 are the first fruits to God out of Israel?
Again, you are putting words in my mouth, for I never said that 144,000 don't have to obey anyone. What I did say is that, the other saints do not reign over the 144,000. Please get your quotes right.
When Christ returns to the earth to end the age, he is obviously going to have to do some clean up and that because this present earth will have suffered much through the that seven years of God's wrath. The woman/Israel, who will be cared for out in desert for that last 3 1/2 years, as well as those great tribulation saints who make it through alive when Christ returns to end the age, will be those who will repopulate the earth during the millennial period. The church will have already been resurrected and caught up prior to the beginning of God's wrath and therefore, will already be in their glorified bodies and will rule with Christ during that thousand years over those who will be populating the earth in their mortal bodies.
At the end of the thousand years, after Satan's last rebellion, he will then be thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown into a thousand years earlier. Then, the unrighteous dead will be resurrected out of Hades and will stand before God at the great white thrown judgment, where anyone's name that is not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. At that time death and Hades will also be thrown into the lake of fire. Sometime during the great white throne judgment, this current heaven and earth will depart/pass away. After the great white throne judgment has taken place, according to Revelation 21 & 22, God will create a new heaven and new earth, with the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven to the new earth.
You have no idea what you are taking about! The 144,000 will have been caught up to God's throne and changed into their glorified bodies, which takes place in the middle of that seven year period and so they will not even be here for that last 3 1/2 years. Those who do survive, will be those great tribulation saints who are not killed during the great tribulation and the woman/Israel who will have been cared for by God out in the desert during that last 3 1/2 years. These two groups will be those who will repopulate the earth.
Speaking of personal interpretations, please show us where scripture states that these 144,000 are going to be children and that they will not even know what sin is? If anything, scripture demonstrates that they are adult males and that because it is said of them, that will not have defiled themselves with women. It would be a moot point to mention that if they were in fact only children. Furthermore, the fact that these 144,000 are said to be "redeemed" would demonstrate that they are sinners and that Christ is their Savior. To be redeemed means that a ransom was paid, that is, to buy back, which is exactly what Christ did for all believers, the ransom being the shedding of his blood.
How can you possibly say "Scripture has the new heaven and new earth being created after the millenial period and after the great white throne judgment" yet do not give one Scriptural reference for that opinion. If you think there is Scriptures which teach that, then reveal the Scriptures. Do you not ask others in your post to reveal Scriptures to you when they say something that is not Scriptural? Yes you do, i have seen it. But i continually ask you to reveal the Scriptures on some of the things you say, which you do not reveal any Scriptures to back up what you are saying. Please show Scriptures that the New Earth and New Heaven is AFTER the thousand year reign of Christ ON EARTH. What does He reign over, nothingness? We Saints reign with Christ for a thousand years, Who do we reign over for a thousand years ON EARTH. You do error in not believing what God has told me concerning what is to come, and you constantly teach things that is based on your own belief, what you think, what you interpret the Word of God to mean. Men's interpretation of the Word of God is DUNG, as if it were in men to interpret the Word of God. What i teach you is NOT my interpretation, but is what God has told me, therefore if you think i am wrong, it is not i that you think is wrong , but God who told me these things. And instead of listening to what God has told me, you disagree with it, why is that, why would a person disagree with God?
Was not the Earth destroyed by Water? Yes it was. Did Noah and his family think it was a brand new Earth? Yes i am sure they did. God destroyed the Earth with water, During the 7 year Tribulation Period God will destroy the Earth with Fire. Know you not that it is written the Earth abideth forever?
Ecc_1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
If Scriptures teach the Earth abideth forever, and can't be broken, how am i to believe you which says "the new heaven and new earth will be brand new, as in novel, never exiting before and not a renovation of this current heaven and earth." So what then, there will be TWO EARTHS, One that abideth forever and then the one you are talking about. Here is the TRUTH, the Earth was destroyed by water, 4,000 years ago, it will now be destroyed by Fire for 7 years, the Earth will burn. After the Earth burns for 7 years (Tribulation Period) The Earth will replenish itself, and become like the Garden of Eden, the Entire Planet will be NEW, and the Atmosphere will be NEW. Age is restored so that a person lives to be a thousand years old. Read Isaiah chapter 65:17-25 to see how Isaiah describes this time on Earth.
The New City Jerusalem does come out of Heaven the problem is, you think it is at the End of the thousand year reign of Christ on Earth. You do not know or understand, that when Jesus comes to gather up the Saints, He is coming in the New City Jerusalem.
You think the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven after the thousand years, is contrary to Scriptures. And as i have plainly said over and over again, if what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG. There are verses in the Old Testament which plainly talk about the New City Jerusalem, and those who sin will not be able to enter into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Why even say that, if the New City comes down at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth? Are there sinners present at the end of the 1,000 years, or have sinners been wiped out during the 7 year Tribulation Period.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (New City Jerusalem)
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. (So sinners are still present, they will not be able to enter into the New City Jerusalem)
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Please Read all of Zechariah chapter 14, it is a description of when Christ comes down out of Heaven to set up His Kingdom, and it is NOT at the end of the thousand years, it is during a time when sinners are still present on the Earth, Read it, believe it. Jesus comes down to Earth to set up His Kingdom, the New City Jerusalem comes with Him.
Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh_14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And Where is Christ?
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. (New City Jerusalem)
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
So Jesus is in the New City Jerusalem.
Where is the Throne of God? NOT in Heaven, it is in the New City Jerusalem, which comes down to Earth. The Place Jesus said He was going to Heaven to prepare for US.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
So the Kingdom of Heaven comes to Earth, For where ever the Father and the Son are, is where the Kingdom of heaven is. If the New City Jerusalem comes down to the Earth, and in it, is the Throne of God the Father and the Lamb of God the Father is there too, Jesus. Then when the Saints are raptured, they do not go to Heaven, where God the Father Use to be, They, the Saints go where the Father and the Son are living, and they are living in the New City Jerusalem which comes down out of Heaven to the Earth, Heaven on Earth.
This is clear because Scriptures plainly teach the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven.
So let me understand your logic, because the New City Jerusalem is NEW, and not the old Jerusalem. That means the New Earth will be completely NEW, because the New City Jerusalem is completely New? What kind of logic is that? The New City Jerusalem is NEW, because Scriptures teaches that it is NEW, it comes down out of Heaven. Scriptures does not teach the Earth is COMPLETELY NEW, that is what you are assuming, altogether not realizing there are verses which teach the Earth abideth forever. The Earth was destroyed by water, it was not created entirely NEW no was it? The Earth again will be destroyed by Fire, the Earth will abide forever, however it can be destroyed and redone on the Surface.
Didn't you already say this in 4.) i will ask you again. Where in all of Scriptures does it teach that it comes AFTER the 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth? Can't you come up with one verse in all of Scriptures that teaches that? Can you even come up with one verse that even implies that is the TRUTH? If you can't come up with one solitary verse that teaches or implies that it comes AFTER the 1,000 years millennium, then WHERE does that information come from, if not from your own mind, your own interpretation, your own thinking?
Do you make this stuff up as you go along? Where in all of Scriptures does it teach what you just said, where is this teaching coming from, because i assure you with no doubts whatsoever, it does not come from Scriptures or from God. Tell us, where is there a reference or even a hint that sin will be a part of the millennial period, just one verse please. Know you not that all those that are not written in the Book of life will be destroyed. That is the whole purpose of the vials being poured out upon the Earth, they will totally destroy all sinners who were not taken up with Christ. The 7th Trumpet is blown, Christ takes the Church, then the 7 vials are poured out, to wipe all the wicked off the face of the Earth, only the 144,000 will be redeemed from the old Earth, they are protected by Angels during the 7 Year Tribulation Period. NO wicked will survive the 7 vials, None of them will be left for the millennium period.
Scriptures teaches plainly that this indeed is exactly what happens, that is why it is written that nothing that defiles or maketh a lie, shall enter into the New City Jerusalem. Why does it say that? Because they are present WITH the New City Jerusalem being HERE on EARTH. All the nations shall come against Him to fight the New City Jerusalem when it appears, then after that all nations shall come to worship there every year. Well at least for the next 3 1/2 years that is. Because when Christ shows up in the New City, and Raptures the Church to live with Him in the New City, that is when the 7 vials will start to be poured out, to wipe all those who were not taken up with Christ off the Earth, save the 144,000 who will live through the vials and repopulate the Earth for the millennium period.
Answer me this, when Christ shows up and takes ALL THE RIGHTEOUS, who are those that are left? If Christ takes all the Righteous, how do you say there are righteous left?
When satan is released, there is going to be a war, satan and all his demons, AND ALL THOSE WHO WILLINGLY OBEYED HIM, will rise from the dead, flesh appearing on the bones of the dead, and he will have his army, and he will attack Jesus and the Saints that all live in the New City Jerusalem, there will be a battle. Scriptures teaches that satan will lose, but even to this day satan does not believe he will lose, he thinks because he will have the numbers, and he will have many many more in his army then what will be of the Saints, he really thinks he is going to win, that is why satan tries to get as many souls to live in sins as he possibly can, the more numbers he has on his side, he thinks the greater the chance of victory for him. Scriptures teaches he will lose, and will be after he loses that all of his followers and himself also, will be judged, at the Great White Throne Judgment, and they (satan, demons, and all those who live in sin, without ever ceasing from them) will be cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone for ever and ever.
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Was not the Earth destroyed by Water? Yes it was. Did Noah and his family think it was a brand new Earth? Yes i am sure they did. God destroyed the Earth with water, During the 7 year Tribulation Period God will destroy the Earth with Fire. Know you not that it is written the Earth abideth forever?
Ecc_1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
If Scriptures teach the Earth abideth forever, and can't be broken, how am i to believe you which says "the new heaven and new earth will be brand new, as in novel, never exiting before and not a renovation of this current heaven and earth." So what then, there will be TWO EARTHS, One that abideth forever and then the one you are talking about. Here is the TRUTH, the Earth was destroyed by water, 4,000 years ago, it will now be destroyed by Fire for 7 years, the Earth will burn. After the Earth burns for 7 years (Tribulation Period) The Earth will replenish itself, and become like the Garden of Eden, the Entire Planet will be NEW, and the Atmosphere will be NEW. Age is restored so that a person lives to be a thousand years old. Read Isaiah chapter 65:17-25 to see how Isaiah describes this time on Earth.
The New City Jerusalem does come out of Heaven the problem is, you think it is at the End of the thousand year reign of Christ on Earth. You do not know or understand, that when Jesus comes to gather up the Saints, He is coming in the New City Jerusalem.
You think the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven after the thousand years, is contrary to Scriptures. And as i have plainly said over and over again, if what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG. There are verses in the Old Testament which plainly talk about the New City Jerusalem, and those who sin will not be able to enter into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Why even say that, if the New City comes down at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth? Are there sinners present at the end of the 1,000 years, or have sinners been wiped out during the 7 year Tribulation Period.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (New City Jerusalem)
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. (So sinners are still present, they will not be able to enter into the New City Jerusalem)
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Please Read all of Zechariah chapter 14, it is a description of when Christ comes down out of Heaven to set up His Kingdom, and it is NOT at the end of the thousand years, it is during a time when sinners are still present on the Earth, Read it, believe it. Jesus comes down to Earth to set up His Kingdom, the New City Jerusalem comes with Him.
Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh_14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And Where is Christ?
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. (New City Jerusalem)
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
So Jesus is in the New City Jerusalem.
Where is the Throne of God? NOT in Heaven, it is in the New City Jerusalem, which comes down to Earth. The Place Jesus said He was going to Heaven to prepare for US.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
So the Kingdom of Heaven comes to Earth, For where ever the Father and the Son are, is where the Kingdom of heaven is. If the New City Jerusalem comes down to the Earth, and in it, is the Throne of God the Father and the Lamb of God the Father is there too, Jesus. Then when the Saints are raptured, they do not go to Heaven, where God the Father Use to be, They, the Saints go where the Father and the Son are living, and they are living in the New City Jerusalem which comes down out of Heaven to the Earth, Heaven on Earth.
This is clear because Scriptures plainly teach the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven.
So let me understand your logic, because the New City Jerusalem is NEW, and not the old Jerusalem. That means the New Earth will be completely NEW, because the New City Jerusalem is completely New? What kind of logic is that? The New City Jerusalem is NEW, because Scriptures teaches that it is NEW, it comes down out of Heaven. Scriptures does not teach the Earth is COMPLETELY NEW, that is what you are assuming, altogether not realizing there are verses which teach the Earth abideth forever. The Earth was destroyed by water, it was not created entirely NEW no was it? The Earth again will be destroyed by Fire, the Earth will abide forever, however it can be destroyed and redone on the Surface.
Didn't you already say this in 4.) i will ask you again. Where in all of Scriptures does it teach that it comes AFTER the 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth? Can't you come up with one verse in all of Scriptures that teaches that? Can you even come up with one verse that even implies that is the TRUTH? If you can't come up with one solitary verse that teaches or implies that it comes AFTER the 1,000 years millennium, then WHERE does that information come from, if not from your own mind, your own interpretation, your own thinking?
Do you make this stuff up as you go along? Where in all of Scriptures does it teach what you just said, where is this teaching coming from, because i assure you with no doubts whatsoever, it does not come from Scriptures or from God. Tell us, where is there a reference or even a hint that sin will be a part of the millennial period, just one verse please. Know you not that all those that are not written in the Book of life will be destroyed. That is the whole purpose of the vials being poured out upon the Earth, they will totally destroy all sinners who were not taken up with Christ. The 7th Trumpet is blown, Christ takes the Church, then the 7 vials are poured out, to wipe all the wicked off the face of the Earth, only the 144,000 will be redeemed from the old Earth, they are protected by Angels during the 7 Year Tribulation Period. NO wicked will survive the 7 vials, None of them will be left for the millennium period.
Scriptures teaches plainly that this indeed is exactly what happens, that is why it is written that nothing that defiles or maketh a lie, shall enter into the New City Jerusalem. Why does it say that? Because they are present WITH the New City Jerusalem being HERE on EARTH. All the nations shall come against Him to fight the New City Jerusalem when it appears, then after that all nations shall come to worship there every year. Well at least for the next 3 1/2 years that is. Because when Christ shows up in the New City, and Raptures the Church to live with Him in the New City, that is when the 7 vials will start to be poured out, to wipe all those who were not taken up with Christ off the Earth, save the 144,000 who will live through the vials and repopulate the Earth for the millennium period.
Answer me this, when Christ shows up and takes ALL THE RIGHTEOUS, who are those that are left? If Christ takes all the Righteous, how do you say there are righteous left?
When satan is released, there is going to be a war, satan and all his demons, AND ALL THOSE WHO WILLINGLY OBEYED HIM, will rise from the dead, flesh appearing on the bones of the dead, and he will have his army, and he will attack Jesus and the Saints that all live in the New City Jerusalem, there will be a battle. Scriptures teaches that satan will lose, but even to this day satan does not believe he will lose, he thinks because he will have the numbers, and he will have many many more in his army then what will be of the Saints, he really thinks he is going to win, that is why satan tries to get as many souls to live in sins as he possibly can, the more numbers he has on his side, he thinks the greater the chance of victory for him. Scriptures teaches he will lose, and will be after he loses that all of his followers and himself also, will be judged, at the Great White Throne Judgment, and they (satan, demons, and all those who live in sin, without ever ceasing from them) will be cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone for ever and ever.
^i^ Continued next post
lol, NONE of these verses say or teach or even imply that the New City Jerusalem comes at the end of the thousand years millennium period.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven: "In Revelation 21, the recorded history of man is at its end."
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Which verse in Rev 21 does it teach that the history of man is at its end?
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven:" Christ has gathered His church in the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:15–17)."
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Sure 1 Thess 4:15-17 teaches that Christ takes His Church, but YOU are using this as a reference that Christ HAS to take the Church BEFORE the New City Jerusalem comes down, which these verse says NOTHING at all about that. But somehow you use this verse, which says nothing about the New City at all, to justify your own thinking that this MUST take place First.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven:"The Tribulation has passed (Revelation 6—18)"
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? The Reference you give to try to prove that Tribulation has passed before the New City comes down, does not in the slightest teach any such thing, if it does then reveal the verse that teaches the Tribulation has passed BEFORE the New City Jerusalem comes, just one, can you do that? i know you can't, why? Because there is no verse that teaches what you are saying.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven: "The battle of Armageddon has been fought and won by our Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:17–21)."
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Again, yet another reference that has NOTHING to do with whatsoever WHEN the New City Jerusalem comes down, NOTHING.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven: "Satan has been chained for the 1,000-year reign of Christ on earth (Revelation 20:1–3)."
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Does anybody else see what he is doing here? The verses he gives as reference such as the above Revelations 20:1-3 teaches that satan is bound for a thousand years, but Ahwatukee is trying to reference the belief that this must take place BEFORE the New City Jerusalem comes down, but the reference he uses is bogus, it does not in any way whatsoever give reference to WHEN the New City Jerusalem comes down. He say the Holy City must come After satan is bound for a thousand years, then gives the Scriptures which teach that satan is bound for a thousand years, as proof that the New City Jerusalem comes down AFTER satan is bound for a thousand years, and if you read all of his references they do the same thing, NONE OF THEM refers to the time in which the New City Jerusalem comes down. That is like me teaching that Jesus rose from the dead and for a short time was a shephard tending sheep in a field, then teach people that this indeed happened by giving them Scriptures which reveal he rose from the dead, and scriptures that reveal that Jesus was our Shephard And then show Scriptures that teach Shepard's tend sheep, to back up what i have been teaching.
Sorry, Ahwatukee, that is exactly what you are doing, YOu say that all those things must take place before the New City Jerusalem comes down, then all you do is give the Scriptures which teach that those things will take place, but none of them say anything about Having to happen before the New City Jerusalem gets here, not a one of them. i will ask you again, which i already know you can't answer this, because if you did, then you would have to realize that you are wrong. Show me one verse that teaches or implies that the New City Jerusalem comes AFTER the millennium period, just one if you can do that. Surely since that is what you believe to be the TRUTH, you can show the Scriptures that lead you to believe that, if you can't, then how is it not your own opinion?
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven:"A new, glorious temple has been established in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 40—48). "
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Know you not that it is written that in the New City there is no need for a temple, because JESUS IS THE TEMPLE thereof? Is Jesus Glorious? Yes. Is He the Temple? Yes. Is He the Glorious Temple thereof? YES.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven:"The final rebellion against God has been quashed, and Satan has received his just punishment, an eternity in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7–10.)"
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Everything Rev 20: 7-10 teaches is True, Does not however teach that this takes place BEFORE, DURING, or AFTER the New City Jerusalem comes down, YOU are adding to the verse using these verses to support a false teaching.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven: "The Great White Throne Judgment has taken place, and mankind has been judged (Revelation 20:11–15). "
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Mankind is Judged on Judgment Day, NOT at the Great White Throne Judgement. Mankind is Judged the Day Jesus shows up on Earth, and every soul, dead and living is judged, whether they are going to be taken or left behind. The Great White Throne Judgement is not for mankind, but to judge satan, demons, and all those who choose to live in sin, all those who were NOT written in the Book of Life, or all those who were blotted out of the Book of Life, will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgement. Many of which all proclaimed to know and follow Jesus Christ. But they loved sin, more than Christ. Also like all the other references you gave, this one is no different, NOTHING about the time the New City shall come down, NOTHING to indicate that this must first take place. You do error in this thinking, and you do greatly error in teaching others that too.
^i^
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven: "In Revelation 21, the recorded history of man is at its end."
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Which verse in Rev 21 does it teach that the history of man is at its end?
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven:" Christ has gathered His church in the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:15–17)."
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Sure 1 Thess 4:15-17 teaches that Christ takes His Church, but YOU are using this as a reference that Christ HAS to take the Church BEFORE the New City Jerusalem comes down, which these verse says NOTHING at all about that. But somehow you use this verse, which says nothing about the New City at all, to justify your own thinking that this MUST take place First.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven:"The Tribulation has passed (Revelation 6—18)"
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? The Reference you give to try to prove that Tribulation has passed before the New City comes down, does not in the slightest teach any such thing, if it does then reveal the verse that teaches the Tribulation has passed BEFORE the New City Jerusalem comes, just one, can you do that? i know you can't, why? Because there is no verse that teaches what you are saying.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven: "The battle of Armageddon has been fought and won by our Lord Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:17–21)."
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Again, yet another reference that has NOTHING to do with whatsoever WHEN the New City Jerusalem comes down, NOTHING.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven: "Satan has been chained for the 1,000-year reign of Christ on earth (Revelation 20:1–3)."
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Does anybody else see what he is doing here? The verses he gives as reference such as the above Revelations 20:1-3 teaches that satan is bound for a thousand years, but Ahwatukee is trying to reference the belief that this must take place BEFORE the New City Jerusalem comes down, but the reference he uses is bogus, it does not in any way whatsoever give reference to WHEN the New City Jerusalem comes down. He say the Holy City must come After satan is bound for a thousand years, then gives the Scriptures which teach that satan is bound for a thousand years, as proof that the New City Jerusalem comes down AFTER satan is bound for a thousand years, and if you read all of his references they do the same thing, NONE OF THEM refers to the time in which the New City Jerusalem comes down. That is like me teaching that Jesus rose from the dead and for a short time was a shephard tending sheep in a field, then teach people that this indeed happened by giving them Scriptures which reveal he rose from the dead, and scriptures that reveal that Jesus was our Shephard And then show Scriptures that teach Shepard's tend sheep, to back up what i have been teaching.
Sorry, Ahwatukee, that is exactly what you are doing, YOu say that all those things must take place before the New City Jerusalem comes down, then all you do is give the Scriptures which teach that those things will take place, but none of them say anything about Having to happen before the New City Jerusalem gets here, not a one of them. i will ask you again, which i already know you can't answer this, because if you did, then you would have to realize that you are wrong. Show me one verse that teaches or implies that the New City Jerusalem comes AFTER the millennium period, just one if you can do that. Surely since that is what you believe to be the TRUTH, you can show the Scriptures that lead you to believe that, if you can't, then how is it not your own opinion?
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven:"A new, glorious temple has been established in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 40—48). "
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Know you not that it is written that in the New City there is no need for a temple, because JESUS IS THE TEMPLE thereof? Is Jesus Glorious? Yes. Is He the Temple? Yes. Is He the Glorious Temple thereof? YES.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven:"The final rebellion against God has been quashed, and Satan has received his just punishment, an eternity in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7–10.)"
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Everything Rev 20: 7-10 teaches is True, Does not however teach that this takes place BEFORE, DURING, or AFTER the New City Jerusalem comes down, YOU are adding to the verse using these verses to support a false teaching.
The following must all occur before the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven: "The Great White Throne Judgment has taken place, and mankind has been judged (Revelation 20:11–15). "
What Scriptures teaches that? If it is not your opinion, your interpretation? Mankind is Judged on Judgment Day, NOT at the Great White Throne Judgement. Mankind is Judged the Day Jesus shows up on Earth, and every soul, dead and living is judged, whether they are going to be taken or left behind. The Great White Throne Judgement is not for mankind, but to judge satan, demons, and all those who choose to live in sin, all those who were NOT written in the Book of Life, or all those who were blotted out of the Book of Life, will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgement. Many of which all proclaimed to know and follow Jesus Christ. But they loved sin, more than Christ. Also like all the other references you gave, this one is no different, NOTHING about the time the New City shall come down, NOTHING to indicate that this must first take place. You do error in this thinking, and you do greatly error in teaching others that too.
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The mark does not just start, and it is mandatory to take. It is a process. Nobody is forced to take the mark, that is to say nobody is forced to worship the Beast, or the antichrist. They freely do this at the first, then when more than 50% of the world has the mark, that it when they will make it mandatory, if you want to read what God has revealed to me concerning this topic, then click "my Website" below, and then click on Mark of the Beast, it is on the horizon.
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If Anyone can show me Scriptures which proves something in this picture is not correct, i would like to see it, please.
Please keep personal opinions, personal interpretations, personal thoughts, personal beliefs, out of it. Please just show me Scriptures which proves something in the picture below is not accurate.
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What does Jesus Christ Returns, mean to you? i will add the Word Rapture to it, and also Church taken up, So there will be less confusion.
i have not placed this in the diagram, if i were to place all the stuff that is to come to pass in the future, you would not be able to see the diagram. My question was and is, what i have shown in the diagram, please show relevant verses if anything that i have shown in the diagram is not correct. You are commenting on things that are not even in the diagram. If you would like to discuss those events that are not included in the diagram, please make a thread to discuss it. Or if you think i need to add something to the diagram, then merely ask me if it would be something that i am willing to add to the diagram.
Exactly where i have placed them.
Not in the diagram. Neither is the Antichrist taking power, nor the rise of the Beast, nor when the One Government happens, nor is the time when one world money happens, nor is the Earth spinning faster in the diagram, or like a drunkard, nor is the polar shift in the diagram, nor when all oceans will be gone, nor the time when all rivers will boil, nor when the antichrist will appear on TV, and many more things that are not in the diagram. Please note, i did not ask what was missing from the diagram, but asked if what i had in the diagram was Spiritually sound or not, and if not then reveal the Scriptures which proves it.
Sorry, i have no ideal what GM stands for. As far as i know it has always meant General Motors.
Not in the diagram, and every human is not killed who refuses the mark, many are that is True, but most are killed by the 7 vials that are poured out on the Earth wiping the wicked off the planet.
Nowhere in Scriptures does it teach the 144,000 are in Heaven, not one verse teaches that. Also, i am an ignorant man, i do not know what gt stands for, please explain. The 144,000 are called firstfruits, because they are the very first humans to make it through the Tribulation Period, they are the firstfruits to God, because they will repopulate the Earth, and they know not what sin is, nor will it even come to their minds what it is, these will not know disobedience. These are they that we will reign over on the Earth for a thousand years.
From the old Earth, that is absolutely correct, they are the first to partake of the New Earth, they were redeemed from the old one.
lol, a few verses later it discusses the mark of the Beast, then a few verses after that is what you say here:
True, but that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, does it?
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Another heretic who believes the 70th week of Daniel is not fulfilled yet. Guess what fellas, Jesus Christ was crucified in the middle of the 70th week. Deny the 70th week as being fulfilled, deny also Christ crucified in the middle of that final week. DOH! 
Here is what YOU are teaching.
What Scriptures teaches that?
What Scriptures teaches that? Oh don't try to use:
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Because when Jesus was killed and rose from the dead, Sacrifices and the oblation DID NOT cease. Sacrifices did not cease until the Temple was destroyed 70 years after Christ rose from the dead. Therefore this verse can't possibly be talking about Daniels Week, which Daniel is clear the sacrifices ceased in the midst of that week. So don't be as the heretics and use this verse to back up a false teaching.
Now we know to this very day, the Jews want to rebuild their temple, and when they do, they will indeed start sacrificing animals again, it is that sacrificing that will come to a cease, when the antichrist desolates the Holy of Holies, You do error not understanding this, nor grasping it when the Truth is revealed to you.
Seriously, looking forward to hearing from you, why you believe Daniels 70th Week is when Jesus was crucified, what Scriptures reveals that to you? If not Scriptures then who?
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lol, i went to that site, and read this on the very first page:
A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.” So when it comes to understanding the spiritual things of God, it is only by God that you will be able to hear and receive what the Spirit is saying in the many mysteries and symbolisms found in the Holy scriptures.
lol, i tell people that what i teach is from God, given to me by God, and is from God, because i have had many conversations with God, i have had visions from God, dreams from God, and spoke on two different occasions with Angels of God. But who believes me, a very very few. Why? Because i teach the Truth which this generation will not believe. Which is ironic. Because God told me, this generation would not believe the things that He was telling me to teach. i even asked Him Why teach them then, He said in a nutshell, so they will not stand before me on Judgment Day and plead ignorance, that they did not know, Which immediately reminded me of the verse that teaches they will have no cloak for their sins. i teach LOVE ONE ANOTHER, Sin No More, that is to say, STOP obeying satan, HIS enemy. And i teach what is going to happen in the future, because He has told me what is going to come to pass. But who will hear it? The Site says God reveals the Truth to people, which is absolutely True, but the Truth that you teach, that Jesus was Raptured in the midst of Daniels 70th week, did not come from God at all, but from your own mind, your own interpretations. Is it not written that interpretations come from God.
Dan_2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
Gen 41:15 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I have dreamed a dream, and there is none that can interpret it: and I have heard say of thee, that thou canst understand a dream to interpret it.
Gen 41:16 And Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, It is not in me: God shall give Pharaoh an answer of peace.
So Joseph is NOT the one who interpreted the dream to Pharaoh, but it was God who revealed to Joseph the interpretation of the Dream. Likewise, God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Interpretations belong to God, NOT TO MEN. God will reveal to whom God will reveal His Secrets. Teach on your site that God is the one who reveals things to people yet you reveal things that are not from God but from you, things that comes from your own mind, your own thinking.
Tell me, did God tell you that When Jesus was crucified, that was Daniels 70th Week? Because you teach that anyone who does not agree with that, is a heretic. So who told you what you are teaching? Because i assure you, it is not Scriptures, nor does it come from God.
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A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.” So when it comes to understanding the spiritual things of God, it is only by God that you will be able to hear and receive what the Spirit is saying in the many mysteries and symbolisms found in the Holy scriptures.
lol, i tell people that what i teach is from God, given to me by God, and is from God, because i have had many conversations with God, i have had visions from God, dreams from God, and spoke on two different occasions with Angels of God. But who believes me, a very very few. Why? Because i teach the Truth which this generation will not believe. Which is ironic. Because God told me, this generation would not believe the things that He was telling me to teach. i even asked Him Why teach them then, He said in a nutshell, so they will not stand before me on Judgment Day and plead ignorance, that they did not know, Which immediately reminded me of the verse that teaches they will have no cloak for their sins. i teach LOVE ONE ANOTHER, Sin No More, that is to say, STOP obeying satan, HIS enemy. And i teach what is going to happen in the future, because He has told me what is going to come to pass. But who will hear it? The Site says God reveals the Truth to people, which is absolutely True, but the Truth that you teach, that Jesus was Raptured in the midst of Daniels 70th week, did not come from God at all, but from your own mind, your own interpretations. Is it not written that interpretations come from God.
Dan_2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
Gen 41:15 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I have dreamed a dream, and there is none that can interpret it: and I have heard say of thee, that thou canst understand a dream to interpret it.
Gen 41:16 And Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, It is not in me: God shall give Pharaoh an answer of peace.
So Joseph is NOT the one who interpreted the dream to Pharaoh, but it was God who revealed to Joseph the interpretation of the Dream. Likewise, God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Interpretations belong to God, NOT TO MEN. God will reveal to whom God will reveal His Secrets. Teach on your site that God is the one who reveals things to people yet you reveal things that are not from God but from you, things that comes from your own mind, your own thinking.
Tell me, did God tell you that When Jesus was crucified, that was Daniels 70th Week? Because you teach that anyone who does not agree with that, is a heretic. So who told you what you are teaching? Because i assure you, it is not Scriptures, nor does it come from God.
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So What your saying is God can't reveal it to someone? Is that what you are saying, that the ONLY way to understand is by the Holy Spirit? You do error, not knowing the Power of God or Jesus. God can reveal to whomever He wants to reveal. God spoke the the prophets in the old days, and God also speaks to the prophets in the last days. You do error in thinking that God does not speak to people today.
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If Anyone can show me Scriptures which proves something in this picture is not correct, i would like to see it, please.
Please keep personal opinions, personal interpretations, personal thoughts, personal beliefs, out of it. Please just show me Scriptures which proves something in the picture below is not accurate.
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"Sorry Dave --- virtually all of it is wrong..."
I could show scripture "all day long"; however, if people are only going to misinterpret that scripture --- what good is it...???
If people have "made up their mind" that they are unwilling to "let go of" the 70th-week-of-Daniel-is-the-7-year-tribulation-period teaching -- what good is it if I show scripture - if they are only going to continue to misinterpet it...???
I have shown scripture before...
Anyone who is not willing to temporarily "suspend" what they have been taught - and seriously consider a different point of view -- is not going to benefit...
I could show scripture "all day long"; however, if people are only going to misinterpret that scripture --- what good is it...???
If people have "made up their mind" that they are unwilling to "let go of" the 70th-week-of-Daniel-is-the-7-year-tribulation-period teaching -- what good is it if I show scripture - if they are only going to continue to misinterpet it...???
I have shown scripture before...
Anyone who is not willing to temporarily "suspend" what they have been taught - and seriously consider a different point of view -- is not going to benefit...
If you think that Daniels 70th week has already happened, then please show Scriptures which teaches it has already happened, so far, just hearing opinions and no Scriptures at all. Funny, if there was a Scripture, it would be posted on most posts would it not be. Yet every post i have read thus far, not one verse is given to support that the Daniels 70th week has already happened, if it has, then i will remove it from the diagram, which is what this entire thread it about, if there is something that is not Scriptural accurate in the diagram, i want to know about it, and i asked for no personal opinions which seems is the only thing that i have gotten, NO SCRIPTURES. So then if Daniels 70th week has already happened, then show me the Scriptures which prove that, and i will remove it from the diagram, but if it is your personal opinion, or your personal interpretation then i will not remove it. The Word of God is TRUTH, what men's opinions are can be corrupted and wrong, what men's personal interpretations can be corrupted and wrong. Therefore don't want to hear them. Therefore show me the Word of God, so that i may believe the Truth.
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