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A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...
K
Yes we had this in our sermon yesterday at church about the head knowledge.......
Did you know that Apostle Paul when he wrote Philippians he was in prison and this was around 30 years after his conversion ???
Yet Paul writes in the letter all about hope and states he himself has not reached the goal in Christ yet, he said he still had some maturing to do in the faith also. 30 so years after conversion, WOW !!!
Yet doctrines and people today think they already have reached the goal and are mature from minute one.........
Did you know that Apostle Paul when he wrote Philippians he was in prison and this was around 30 years after his conversion ???
Yet Paul writes in the letter all about hope and states he himself has not reached the goal in Christ yet, he said he still had some maturing to do in the faith also. 30 so years after conversion, WOW !!!
Yet doctrines and people today think they already have reached the goal and are mature from minute one.........
K
A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...
Do you know why only those two commandments are mentioned in 1 John 3:23 ???
It is because if you follow those two all the others will be upheld and followed as well, as they can be placed under obeying either one of those two.
Following those two does not leave the others undone, Jesus warned the Pharisees of doing such.....Doing part and leaving the other undone !!!
Paul shows the exact same teaching in Romans 13:9-11 !!!
As for your 1 John 4 usage you need to take what John just got done saying in chapters 2-4 up to that point to know why perfect love has no fear. You will see that this is because if we are walking according to the standards laid out for us then there is no law having power over us to condemn us.
The only one's that should fear are those who still live deliberate transgression (sinful) lives !!!
K
Well first I would suggest you go read post #202, because there is one where somebody is saying exactly what you claim nobody is saying.
Second you may not say those exact words, but if you say a person will still have eternal life no matter how live.
Then that is the same as excusing sinful behavior and allowing unrepented sinners into the kingdom of heaven, that the bible is very clear that anybody who continues to be that way will not inherit the kingdom of God.
And please don't try to play semantic's with God's word as I seen one earlier try to do by saying inheriting the kingdom and receiving eternal life are separate. You can't get one without the other !!!
Second you may not say those exact words, but if you say a person will still have eternal life no matter how live.
Then that is the same as excusing sinful behavior and allowing unrepented sinners into the kingdom of heaven, that the bible is very clear that anybody who continues to be that way will not inherit the kingdom of God.
And please don't try to play semantic's with God's word as I seen one earlier try to do by saying inheriting the kingdom and receiving eternal life are separate. You can't get one without the other !!!
One person has stated if you follow after the flesh your whole life rather than the spirit you will still attain heaven. Another has said if you murder, are a serial adulterer, thief and constantly take the lords name in vain you still attain heaven. So I am not sure why you think people are bearing false witness. They are just going by what others tell them
This one?
...he is saying that Jesus saving grace is infinitely more powerful then our sin....is that the bad part?
I think he got that from these...
Romans 5:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: ( there's that hyper part )
Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
...he is saying that Jesus saving grace is infinitely more powerful then our sin....is that the bad part?
I think he got that from these...
Romans 5:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: ( there's that hyper part )
Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
K
His response was to kathryn, and she asked him in the way if a person continues being that way......
continues being a murderer......
continues being a thief.......
continues being a, and on, and on
Will they still get eternal life and be in heaven ???
His response was yes.
That is wrong and excuses sinful behavior and has God's grace allow lewdness, which is completely disputed in the Word of God.
We are not talking about the sinful lives people had before they came to Christ, we are talking about how one lives after coming to Christ.
Continuing to still be the same sinful people they were before shows no true repentance, and is stated as trampling Jesus underfoot. Those who do such will stand before God at His judgment and fear facing the second death !!!
K
Yes believers do still sin but we get empowered by the Holy Spirit to make that less and less of an issue in our lives.
We do not continue to be the same sinful people we were before we came to Christ, if that was the case we would never have victory over sin and remain a slave to sin. Over coming the world be impossible , but the Word of God clearly states we will have victory over sin and no longer remain slaves to it and will over come the world.
We are to listen to Him and obey His guidance and not continue to give into our fleshly desires, as we can not serve both Him and flesh both.
There is multiple warnings in the bible about continuing to live lives in lewdness or sinful behaviors, and the consequences are not just worldly consequences now.
We do not continue to be the same sinful people we were before we came to Christ, if that was the case we would never have victory over sin and remain a slave to sin. Over coming the world be impossible , but the Word of God clearly states we will have victory over sin and no longer remain slaves to it and will over come the world.
We are to listen to Him and obey His guidance and not continue to give into our fleshly desires, as we can not serve both Him and flesh both.
There is multiple warnings in the bible about continuing to live lives in lewdness or sinful behaviors, and the consequences are not just worldly consequences now.
Does the Lord Jesus Christ forgive murderers and thieves, etc...???
Is it only a one time deal and then the person must earn their way on merit?
Or does the Lord Jesus forgive murderers and thieves each time, every time?
If you look back on the most Christian person the world has ever known, aside from the Lord, have they ever had a spotlessly perfect walk before God, or have they had to rely on the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ?
If the Lord Jesus Christ can forgive your 'little' sins He can forgive peoples 'big' sins... right?
Is it only a one time deal and then the person must earn their way on merit?
Or does the Lord Jesus forgive murderers and thieves each time, every time?
If you look back on the most Christian person the world has ever known, aside from the Lord, have they ever had a spotlessly perfect walk before God, or have they had to rely on the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ?
If the Lord Jesus Christ can forgive your 'little' sins He can forgive peoples 'big' sins... right?