ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HYPER GRACE, ETERNAL SECURITY = FALSE DOCTRINE PROVEN!

[KennethC]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

What happens to a person when they come to Christ and become a Christian?

They are born again of the Holy Spirit, right?

The Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ are the cause of our not walking according to the flesh. Murder, rape, etc..

Its not possible to be a born again Christian and still follow after the flesh for any period of time. Because a Christian knows there is a much better way, by relying on and abiding in Christ.

Psalm 23:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

I agree with all of this except the part in red because if that was the case then we would never sin again !!!

When we sin it is because we gave into the lust of the flesh, therefore you should have worded more in the way of any extended period of time.

Putting it as any period of time would mean that even sinning once today could not happen !!!

Also Hebrews 6:4-6 speaks of some who have shared in receiving the Holy Spirit but still fell away from the faith, therefore it is not impossible to return to sin. Apostle James even gives a parallel teaching to this giving back into sin and the consequence of if we let it get full grown again.

 

[Grandpa]

What ???

You do realize that when we are born again that is the moment the Holy Spirit is placed in us, and He is the one who guides us in how to walk ???

We still have the choice to obey His guidance or not, we are not puppets that are forced to be a certain way !!!

That is why Paul addressed so many and rebuked them for walking improperly, if we are just magically made or forced to be a certain way Paul's epistles mean nothing then and can be tossed out of our bibles.

This whole concept of no free will or we have no choice is faulty !!!

If you claim to have the real thing then why do you not act then as He commanded, if you don't ???

He can not deny Himself therefore if He abides in us, so will His laws/commandments............

Again like I stated to another before Ephesians is misused as that is referring to God sending Jesus in the flesh to die on the cross for us, not the faith we have in Him that puts us under that Grace.

Does the Lord Jesus Christ lead us into paths of Righteousness?

Are we His Workmanship?

Do we walk by Faith?

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The choice to obey His guidance or not? Do you understand the relationship of Shepherd and sheep???

 

[kathryn]

My dear Sister, look at the above words you wrote yourself. I rejoice in your faith in, and your love for, Jesus and it warms my heart to see such passion for Him. And with that, I encourage you to dig a little deeper into the grand scale regarding the magnitude of God's saving grace that we have in Jesus Christ. He is our Lord and Savior, not our Lord and quasi-assistant. It is precisely for that reason that His grace is sufficient. Even to the most wretched.

My dear brother, I encourage you to not single out only one sentance of a post, but to read it in context to the whole post
I also encourage you to accept the whole message, not just part of it

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

God demands we forgive others. If God demands it of us, its pretty safe to say He demands it of Himself. Embrace the Grace and Rejoice!

When they repent.

​“Now if your brother sins against you, go correct him between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. Matthew 18:15​

 

[Grace777x70]

Can someone slander and malign people and be a Christian?..It is so easy to pick the "biggie" sins as if they are the only ones in question....the flesh ahs a lot more then the "biggie sins"

Let's say..someone has slandered a fellow believer and maintains that stance towards them.....and then they die one day..do they go to heaven?..or is it hell for them?

What about a Christian all their life was afraid ....would they go to heaven?..Revelation says that the "fearful" are the first ones to be put in the lake of fire..even before those really and homosexuals.

Salvation is totally based on "being in Christ"....the outward behavior is a separate issue.

G

I am far from perfect, I freely admit that. However, does that mean a person can become a christian and as a christian be a serial murderer, rapist, thief, drunk, adulterer as no one is perfect in the flesh?
That is my question to you, what is your opinion on that?

 

[Gr8grace]

The above I agree with. But it has been stated on this thread a person can constantly the whole of their christian life follow after the flesh rather than the spirit and still attain heaven.

In my view, that is at least as dangerous as preaching legalism

Legalism is much, much, much more dangerous. How great is our darkness if we THINK we are in the light?

The majority of believers are caught up in their flesh and are living in the flesh.......the "good" side of their flesh.

We have a self-righteous side and a sinful side. And most are trying to clean up the sinful side with their self-righteous side and make the flesh "better."

Our flesh is not redeemed and is not saved and will NOT get better. In fact, our flesh gets worse and worse. And the majority of Christians are trying to "clean" up the flesh, which is dead and will not be saved. All the while the new creation in Christ is not being fed and lived in because we are trying to clean up the old man.

Religion is way more dangerous. It makes us comfortable and gives us a chance to boast on how much we have "cleaned" up the old man. Living in sin drops most of us to our knees.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter on the grace of God.....I love that chapter...

Heb 6:4-8 talks about those that reject Jesus sacrifice..then in verse 9 it talks about us believers..

Hebrews 6:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.

Here the author of Hebrews is speaking to the "Beloved"..that is us Christians that have accepted Jesus as our sacrifice...and he talks about "things that accompany salvation"

He wanted them to know that the verses 4-8 was not for them..which is why he said.."..though we are speaking in this way."

He didn't want them to put themselves - the true believers in that category.

Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter about the love and grace of Christ for us believers...not so good for those depending on the temple system.

 

[kathryn]

Legalism is much, much, much more dangerous. How great is our darkness if we THINK we are in the light?

The majority of believers are caught up in their flesh and are living in the flesh.......the "good" side of their flesh.

We have a self-righteous side and a sinful side. And most are trying to clean up the sinful side with their self-righteous side and make the flesh "better."

Our flesh is not redeemed and is not saved and will NOT get better. In fact, our flesh gets worse and worse. And the majority of Christians are trying to "clean" up the flesh, which is dead and will not be saved. All the while the new creation in Christ is not being fed and lived in because we are trying to clean up the old man.

Religion is way more dangerous. It makes us comfortable and gives us a chance to boast on how much we have "cleaned" up the old man. Living in sin drops most of us to our knees.

Legalism is NOT more dangerous than stating it doesn't matter how you act in your christian life you will attain heaven anyway

 

[notuptome]

For the now you have it now you don't crowd I have a question. Why would you not desire eternal security? Where is the peace that passes all understanding promised by Christ in continuous anxiety over loss of salvation?

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Why continue to accuse each other of not doing right when the accusations are not right? The same loving God who ministers daily in my heart ministers in the hearts of all the other believers. That ministering Holy Spirit has wisdom and love that far exceeds anything I can hope for or imagine.

1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KennethC]

Does the Lord Jesus Christ lead us into paths of Righteousness?

Are we His Workmanship?

Do we walk by Faith?

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The choice to obey His guidance or not? Do you understand the relationship of Shepherd and sheep???

The answer to your first two questions is yes, because He works and guides us....................Not controls us !!!

The answer to your third question is we should, as Paul addressed this to a number of believers more then once because they weren't. He even rebuked Peter for teaching or allowing (which is part of the walk) improperly teachings.

As for your final two questions yes I do know the relationship between Shepherd and sheep, yet some are being lead in a false understanding of that relationship. They think they can walk around in a manner that separates them from the rest of the flock yet still remain saved through Christ unto eternal life.

The truth is the Shepherd will come after that lost sheep to bring Him back, and we have been called to be those overseers of the flock for Him. Once He or us by His guidance go after that lost sheep there is still a step that lost sheep must make to come back to the flock. Repent !!! (Luke 15)

 

[Grandpa]

Legalism is NOT more dangerous than stating it doesn't matter how you act in your christian life you will attain heaven anyway

I wish both sides would just conclude that its never too late to turn to the Lord Jesus.

No matter how legal or how loosey goosey a person gets, they can always come to the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[KennethC]

Can someone slander and malign people and be a Christian?..It is so easy to pick the "biggie" sins as if they are the only ones in question....the flesh ahs a lot more then the "biggie sins"

Let's say..someone has slandered a fellow believer and maintains that stance towards them.....and then they die one day..do they go to heaven?..or is it hell for them?

What about a Christian all their life was afraid ....would they go to heaven?..Revelation says that the "fearful" are the first ones to be put in the lake of fire..even before those really and homosexuals.

Salvation is totally based on "being in Christ"....the outward behavior is a separate issue.

Well slander would be bearing false witnesses on another which is a work of the flesh, and I think the Apostle Paul clearly states the destination of those who continue to practice (which means deliberately do) the works of the flesh.

Lord Jesus also warns about holding something over on another and not working it out before you stand before Him at judgment !!!

 

[Gr8grace]

For the now you have it now you don't crowd I have a question. Why would you not desire eternal security? Where is the peace that passes all understanding promised by Christ in continuous anxiety over loss of salvation?

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Why continue to accuse each other of not doing right when the accusations are not right? The same loving God who ministers daily in my heart ministers in the hearts of all the other believers. That ministering Holy Spirit has wisdom and love that far exceeds anything I can hope for or imagine.

1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Misery loves company.

 

[Grandpa]

For the now you have it now you don't crowd I have a question. Why would you not desire eternal security? Where is the peace that passes all understanding promised by Christ in continuous anxiety over loss of salvation?

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Why continue to accuse each other of not doing right when the accusations are not right? The same loving God who ministers daily in my heart ministers in the hearts of all the other believers. That ministering Holy Spirit has wisdom and love that far exceeds anything I can hope for or imagine.

1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Utah]

My dear brother, I encourage you to not single out only one sentance of a post, but to read it in context to the whole post
I also encourage you to accept the whole message, not just part of it

You shouldn't have written those words if you don't stand by them.

Back to our original discussion, God demands a repentant heart, so, how many unrepentant Christians do you know that go around murdering, thieving, blah blah blah . . .

I only asked you to name one.

 

[KennethC]

I wish both sides would just conclude that its never too late to turn to the Lord Jesus.

No matter how legal or how loosey goosey a person gets, they can always come to the Lord Jesus Christ.

That there you hit the nail on the head !!!

Legalism says unless you keep the Mosaic written ordinances you are not saved.......... <----This is wrong

The flip side says no standards apply and can live however I want, and/or excuse sinful behavior.....<----This is wrong

Yes it is never to late to come to Christ, while still alive that is, once a person physically dies then it is to late.

However you have two situations then here:

1) Those who have never came to Christ...........

2) Those who once did come to Christ but have fallen from the faith.........

Both situations are clearly shown in scripture that they have to come to Christ or return to Him before it is to late in order to receive salvation. The whole once saved always saved, eternal security stance has fallen away and departing from the faith being impossible. Yet the bible multiple times speaks on it will and does happen !!!

It even states some will return to condemnation, and fall back to perdition.

This is why from Acts to Jude we are constantly warned about following false teachers and teachings, because they will lead to ruin and not eternal life through Christ.

Why is so many examples of believers getting rebuked and reproved in the bible, and telling us we have the right to do the same if we can no longer walk sinfully again ??? Its because we still have choice !!!

I have made my choice, I choose to serve God and follow His ways !!!

 

[Utah]

When they repent.

​“Now if your brother sins against you, go correct him between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. Matthew 18:15​

Does Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross save believers?

​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Grace Believers (New Grace, Modern Grace, Hyper Grace) believe that there are two gospels: one to those under the old covenant (the apostles) and one to the gentiles. What is written in the 4 gospel accounts is not for the gentiles.

In one gospel, Jewish disciples that confessed Christ, but practiced bad works, would lose salvation

In the other gospel, gentiles' bad works will be destroyed in fire, but they themselves will be saved.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Does Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross save believers?

[/INDENT]

Believers, yes. Faith that ceases, no.

 

[kathryn]

I wish both sides would just conclude that its never too late to turn to the Lord Jesus.

No matter how legal or how loosey goosey a person gets, they can always come to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Maybe that narrow path is grace with responsibility, any other path leads to destruction