ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HYPER GRACE, ETERNAL SECURITY = FALSE DOCTRINE PROVEN!

[Cee]

Cee's comment reflects the neo-gnostic influence of the new.modern.hyper grace mvmt, which essentially denies the existence of the old man and only identifies with the new creation. All things are new. Practitioners believe themselves to be spiritual beings joined in a mysterious conjunction with grace that they have as their own special possession that cannot be taken away from them no matter what they do. It's an identity faith that eschews any need or worth of good works, apart from whatever beneficial influence those works might have in this world.

Guilty as charged!

Romans 16:11 So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
- I fully and completely count myself as dead to sin, but alive to God!

1 Peter 2:24 "He himself bore our sins" in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; "by his wounds you have been healed."
- He died on the cross, so that we MIGHT DIE TO SINS and live for righteousness!

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
- I'm dead and now hidden in Christ!

Colossians 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
- I'm dead and the rules of the world don't have POWER OVER ME!

Romans 6:2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
- I am dead to sin! Yes! I am.

YES I COUNT MYSELF AS FULLY DEAD TO SIN! AND FULLY ALIVE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS! I BELIEVE THAT CHRIST FULLY AND COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED ME. I BELIEVE SCRIPTURE WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

C.

 

[Grace777x70]

So...you admit that you are one of those Modern grace believers in the finished work of Christ?..me too buddy!!!.

Guilty as charged!

Romans 16:11 So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
- I fully and completely count myself as dead to sin, but alive to God!

1 Peter 2:24 "He himself bore our sins" in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; "by his wounds you have been healed."
- He died on the cross, so that we MIGHT DIE TO SINS and live for righteousness!

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
- I'm dead and now hidden in Christ!

Colossians 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
- I'm dead and the rules of the world don't have POWER OVER ME!

Romans 6:2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
- I am dead to sin! Yes! I am.

YES I COUNT MYSELF AS FULLY DEAD TO SIN! AND FULLY ALIVE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS! I BELIEVE THAT CHRIST FULLY AND COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED ME. I BELIEVE SCRIPTURE WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

C.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Oh so now your backtracking.

You just lost more..

Prove your accusation against me. Prove I said what you said I said. Wagging your tongue against me doesn't accomplish anything.

 

[popeye]

Guilty as charged!

Romans 16:11 So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
- I fully and completely count myself as dead to sin, but alive to God!

1 Peter 2:24 "He himself bore our sins" in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; "by his wounds you have been healed."
- He died on the cross, so that we MIGHT DIE TO SINS and live for righteousness!

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
- I'm dead and now hidden in Christ!

Colossians 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
- I'm dead and the rules of the world don't have POWER OVER ME!

Romans 6:2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
- I am dead to sin! Yes! I am.

YES I COUNT MYSELF AS FULLY DEAD TO SIN! AND FULLY ALIVE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS! I BELIEVE THAT CHRIST FULLY AND COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED ME. I BELIEVE SCRIPTURE WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

C.

Yes...Good verses.
BUT.....your verses are positional,not experiential.
Take it one step further.

PAUL;I pick up MY cross.....DAILY.

For us believers to WALK IT OUT,we must put the effort forth to dispatch that old nature.

IOW,Paul was saying to die DAILY. Daily put the old nature along with ambition,self promotion,envying,and my own plan,all has to die. Even gluttony has to die.

"...deny his self,pick up his cross,and follow me"

Positional,yes.
Experiential,yes

But I do like your verses. So don't get mad at me

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yes...Good verses.
BUT.....your verses are positional,not experiential.
Take it one step further.

PAUL;I pick up MY cross.....DAILY.

For us believers to WALK IT OUT,we must put the effort forth to dispatch that old nature.

IOW,Paul was saying to die DAILY. Daily put the old nature along with ambition,self promotion,envying,and my own plan,all has to die. Even gluttony has to die.

"...deny his self,pick up his cross,and follow me"

Positional,yes.
Experiential,yes

But I do like your verses. So don't get mad at me

Paul was literally dying daily. He was getting the crap beat out of him regularly, and was more than willing to indure it for the cause of Christ. The old nature is already dead. Trying to kill what is already dead is a waste of a life. Be careful that the "self" your end up killing isn't the self Christ has made of you.

 

[Utah]

when will we stop wrangling with words on this topic

- let every man/woman be convinced on their own accord and act based on that belief

I completely respect you and what you share here, however the problem for me is when I see people causing stumbling blocks against new Christians by sharing limited grace, I feel compelled to counter those limits by sharing the full measure of God's grace that is seen at the Cross and Empty Tomb.

 

[KennethC]

They left us because they were never apart of us -John
Depart from Me I never knew you -Jesus
Examine yourself if you are in the faith -Paul
-Note it doesn't say: Still in the faith or not...

C.

First verse you give from John refers to anti-christs, not believers who fall away, and verse 18 clearly shows who this is referring to. Why must some continue to apply this verse to people it is not referring to ???

Second verse from Jesus here is referring to those who thought they could serve two masters, they believed they could serve Him and continue to sinful lifestyles as well. As verse 23 of Matthew clearly states why they did not receive eternal life, it was because they continued in lewdness/lawlessness which is the same as saying being sinful !!!

(This passage from Matthew 7:21-23 is another clear example how the OSAS or Hyper-grace only looks at one dimension of the scripture and not the whole context.)

This third scripture from Paul from 2 Corinthians 13:5 is Paul telling us to examine our "actions" to see if we are in the faith. This is the same teaching that John and James gave as well, yet the hyper-grace and osas movement says our actions don't matter.

Paul right here shows they do because it is Christ in us that is guiding us by the Holy Spirit, thus our actions if we are truly in the faith will reflect that He abides in us.

Which is why Paul, John, and James, say hatred, unforgiving, unmerciful, and uncaring actions are clear signs of those who do not belong to Him.

These now day doctrines try their hardest to separate the walk in the faith from the faith itself, it can not be done or we are in turn denying the working power of the Holy Spirit within us.

How can the Holy Spirit be inside a person and there be no evidence ??? There can't be !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We are not another. We are One with Him. John 17:22

We are one spirit with Christ, but we are not Christ. We are of his body, but we are not him. He is pure, we are not. He is the righteousness of GOD, but we are not.

The error of neo-gnostic new.modern.hyper grace is that it doesn't make this distinction. It denies that the old man/nature exists (thus denying responsibility for it's actions) by identifying only with the new nature. It claims that believers are the righteousness of GOD in Christ, but the bible nowhere says that. It says that we are becoming the righteousness of GOD in Christ.

 

[KennethC]

I completely respect you and what you share here, however the problem for me is when I see people causing stumbling blocks against new Christians by sharing limited grace, I feel compelled to counter those limits by sharing the full measure of God's grace that is seen at the Cross and Empty Tomb.

The full measure of God's grace includes warnings and tough love though Utah.............

It is not all soothing words or just things we want to hear, that is called itching ears doctrines in the bible that is consider false teaching.

God's grace comes with standards that believers are to uphold, and there is absolutely no scripture in the bible that says Jesus did it all and we do nothing.

Jesus Himself said, "To much is given, much will be required."

 

[Dan58]

If we think that salvation can be lost, in any manner..................we are telling Christ to kiss off.

No, telling Christ to kiss off is what can cause salvation to be lost. God does not withdraw his saving grace, but we are free to walk away from it, and as long as that possibility exist, anyone can fall away, and I've known many who have. Because once a believer always a believer is not always true, neither can OSAS always be true... jmo

 

[KennethC]

No, telling Christ to kiss off is what can cause salvation to be lost. God does not withdraw his saving grace, but we are free to walk away from it, and as long as that possibility exist, anyone can fall away, and I've known many who have. Because once a believer always a believer is not always true, neither can OSAS always be true... jmo

Yes and the bible gives clear examples of what this telling Christ to kiss off looks like.........

1) Denying we have to follow His teachings or commands

2) Continuing to live deliberate sinful lifestyles (stated in scripture as trampling Jesus underfoot)

God's grace is wonderful, for He gave us His Son to die for us on the cross and His Holy Spirit to help us not continue in the same deliberate sinful nature we once walked in.

The gospel message is about being reconciled to God, and the sin nature is enmity to God !!!

We can not be reconciled and enmity to Him at the same time, Light and darkness does not fellowship together !!!

 

[Cee]

We are one spirit with Christ, but we are not Christ. We are of his body, but we are not him. He is pure, we are not. He is the righteousness of GOD, but we are not.

The error of neo-gnostic new.modern.hyper grace is that it doesn't make this distinction. It denies that the old man/nature exists (thus denying responsibility for it's actions) by identifying only with the new nature. It claims that believers are the righteousness of GOD in Christ, but the bible nowhere says that. It says that we are becoming the righteousness of GOD in Christ.

2 Co 5:11 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

We are now the righteousness of God. The degree that we accept it (positionally) is the degree we will see it (experientially).

C.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Co 5:11 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

We are now the righteousness of God. The degree that we accept it (positionally) is the degree we will see it (experientially).

C.

which is why eternal security of the true child of God, is the most important truth any child of God will ever hold onto.

If they can not see their righteousness is in Christ and Christ alone. They will never experience true righteousness.

They may experience religion, as they are forced to rely on their own righteousness. But they will never experience Gods.

 

[valiant]

No, telling Christ to kiss off is what can cause salvation to be lost. God does not withdraw his saving grace, but we are free to walk away from it, and as long as that possibility exist, anyone can fall away, and I've known many who have. Because once a believer always a believer is not always true, neither can OSAS always be true... jmo

you cannot walk away from God's saving grace. you may think you are doing, but you are walking into it!! His grace is sufficient for you.

no one but God knows who are truly His except God and the individual

 

[Utah]

The full measure of God's grace includes warnings and tough love though Utah.............

It is not all soothing words or just things we want to hear, that is called itching ears doctrines in the bible that is consider false teaching.

God's grace comes with standards that believers are to uphold, and there is absolutely no scripture in the bible that says Jesus did it all and we do nothing.

Show me the Scripture that states Jesus did a little regarding our salvation and the rest is up to us. And what is it exactly that you do regarding your own salvation?

Yesterday I visited some elderly people in a nursing home and at one point I spoon fed breakfast to a woman with dementia. Though it was kind on my part to do so, and perhaps God is well pleased with me regarding that moment, it has nothing to do with my salvation.

My salvation has been made complete in Jesus Christ, and in Him alone. The thief on the Cross can attest to the fullness of God's saving grace in Jesus Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree Cee......Some people want to "earn" righteousness by "doing good works"....but it is a gift from God to us.


Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)



1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

Romans 8:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 10:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


Righteousness in our inner man is a done deal.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
has been created in righteousness = past tense ( aorist ) passive voice = something acted upon you..you do not do it.
.




It is hard to see the new birth and the new creation in Christ when we still see the "old man" as still being alive despite what the scriptures say that the "old man" is dead and died with Christ.

Not understanding the new creation in Christ creates "works orientated" people.... the D.I.Y. righteousness/holiness......

we really need to see what the Lord has done for us when we are born-again. We need to see the new man in Christ..we are one with Him..in union.

2 Co 5:11 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

We are now the righteousness of God. The degree that we accept it (positionally) is the degree we will see it (experientially).

C.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

2 Co 5:11 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

We are now the righteousness of God. The degree that we accept it (positionally) is the degree we will see it (experientially).

C.

That's ignoring the plain reading of scripture to spin it like you want. The text says becoming, not are. Are implies full possession, whereas becoming implies growing towards that end.

Your identity faith in which the degree to which you identify with an idea of perfection is little different in essence than the gnostic belief that their knowledge made them perfect.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's ignoring the plain reading of scripture to spin it like you want. The text says becoming, not are. Are implies full possession, whereas becoming implies growing towards that end.

Your identity faith in which the degree to which you identify with an idea of perfection is little different in essence than the gnostic belief that their knowledge made them perfect.

Tell me, how do you ignore the plain meaning of this? How do you spin this.....

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes HAS ETERNAL life." John 6:47

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's ignoring the plain reading of scripture to spin it like you want. The text says becoming, not are. Are implies full possession, whereas becoming implies growing towards that end.

Your identity faith in which the degree to which you identify with an idea of perfection is little different in essence than the gnostic belief that their knowledge made them perfect.

Thats being deceptive.

Paul said clearly, In the past, He who knew no sin, was made sin for us, so that in the present, we can become the righteousness of God in him.

It is a common phrase used in scripture where you speak of a past event producing a current reality.

And you just destroyed it and made it to be something it never was..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Tell me, how do you ignore the plain meaning of this? How do you spin this.....

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes HAS ETERNAL life." John 6:47

We have the firstfruits and down payment. We do not have full possession.

Not only [this], but we ourselves also, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves [while we] await eagerly [our] adoption, the redemption of our body. For in hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we await [it] eagerly with patient endurance. Romans 8:23-25

Now the one who establishes us together with you in Christ and who anoints us [is] God, [who] also sealed us and gave the down payment of the Spirit in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 1:21-22​