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Is it possible not to - sure - is it guaranteed no - can we walk blameless - yes- rather until we fail to do what is right, or we do what is wrong
maybe people like to forget that sin is the failure to do what is right and if we are going to the sinless perfectionist route - that's just not reality until we get to Glory - glorification - it's kind of pie in the sky set up for a hard fall, for someone who is immature in Christ
Why does the Discipline of the Lord come, if we are in a sinless perfection state?
maybe people like to forget that sin is the failure to do what is right and if we are going to the sinless perfectionist route - that's just not reality until we get to Glory - glorification - it's kind of pie in the sky set up for a hard fall, for someone who is immature in Christ
Why does the Discipline of the Lord come, if we are in a sinless perfection state?
K
This is actually the lie used to try to keep 1 John out of the bible because its message is directed at believers....
Apostle John includes himself in the teachings of 1 John chapters 1-2, and in chapters 2-4 he is speaking on the believers walk to let us known we have assurance of eternal life abiding in us by our actions.
John's teachings here are exactly the same as James, another book that was fought by some to keep it out of the bible, and also by Paul who taught this in 2 Corinthians 13.....
It is amazing how people try to explain away a chapter or even full epistle as applying to other people and not us, when you have two other Apostles in the bible who give the same exact teaching to believers !!!
Apostle John includes himself in the teachings of 1 John chapters 1-2, and in chapters 2-4 he is speaking on the believers walk to let us known we have assurance of eternal life abiding in us by our actions.
John's teachings here are exactly the same as James, another book that was fought by some to keep it out of the bible, and also by Paul who taught this in 2 Corinthians 13.....
It is amazing how people try to explain away a chapter or even full epistle as applying to other people and not us, when you have two other Apostles in the bible who give the same exact teaching to believers !!!
K
The new creation is the Holy Spirit being put in us to give us a new mind and new heart, that new mindset and new heart will lead us to walk in His ways.
This does not take away free will though or we would never be able to sin again, and sinless perfection is a false doctrine......
To claim you no longer sin or don't have sin would make one out to be a liar, which is sin............
Apostle Paul 30 years after his conversion still called himself chief sinner, not because of how he walked in the Spirit at that time but because of the sinful behaviors he did before conversion.
Being dead to sin does not mean it can no longer get a hold of us again if we open that door, it means we no longer live our lives in the way of habitual sinning. We know the standard the Lord has laid out for us, and gave us His Holy Spirit to help us to walk in His ways.
Remember Apostle Paul said only to those who walk by the Spirit, against such there is no law, and stated the law still exists to those who lives in transgression (means continues to live sinful lives).
This does not take away free will though or we would never be able to sin again, and sinless perfection is a false doctrine......
To claim you no longer sin or don't have sin would make one out to be a liar, which is sin............
Apostle Paul 30 years after his conversion still called himself chief sinner, not because of how he walked in the Spirit at that time but because of the sinful behaviors he did before conversion.
Being dead to sin does not mean it can no longer get a hold of us again if we open that door, it means we no longer live our lives in the way of habitual sinning. We know the standard the Lord has laid out for us, and gave us His Holy Spirit to help us to walk in His ways.
Remember Apostle Paul said only to those who walk by the Spirit, against such there is no law, and stated the law still exists to those who lives in transgression (means continues to live sinful lives).
I'd rather study what is IN the scriptures now...I believe God somehow or other got the letters He wanted in the scriptures for us to study and grow in....now my whole purpose and devotion is to ..
....grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus!
I want to know Him better and more intimately. This is what the true gospel of the grace of Christ brings to a person. It's wonderful! He is awesome and mighty to save!
....grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus!
I want to know Him better and more intimately. This is what the true gospel of the grace of Christ brings to a person. It's wonderful! He is awesome and mighty to save!
I already explained why Paul said he was the chiefest of sinners, it was so people would know they could be saved. Thats why he pointed to what he did in the past. But people are mistakenly using it to point to what he did in the present. His example to believers was completely different which is we are dead to sin.
And I've already shown that Bible authors believed not sinning was possible. Today people teach it's impossible, but this is Anti Scriptural.
You're right though we do still have free will, but what I don't agree with is the thinking we still desire sin. Because the reason why we have a new heart is so we don't desire sin. Why? Because we are a new creation. That's the power of the cross.
Why did John say? If we "claim to have no sin" instead of if we "say we don't sin"?
Because if you read the previous verse he's talking about the power of Jesus to cleanse us. That's why later he says those who belong to God do not sin. But IF we do sin... this is right theology.
I agree with much of what you are saying, but where I don't agree is the thinking that believers still desire sin. I don't believe they do. Because I believe they are truly new creations. And as their minds are renewed to who they are - fruit comes naturally. Which is exactly what you quote in the post before this - good trees DON'T bear bad fruit.
Thanks for your reply
C.
And I've already shown that Bible authors believed not sinning was possible. Today people teach it's impossible, but this is Anti Scriptural.
You're right though we do still have free will, but what I don't agree with is the thinking we still desire sin. Because the reason why we have a new heart is so we don't desire sin. Why? Because we are a new creation. That's the power of the cross.
Why did John say? If we "claim to have no sin" instead of if we "say we don't sin"?
Because if you read the previous verse he's talking about the power of Jesus to cleanse us. That's why later he says those who belong to God do not sin. But IF we do sin... this is right theology.
I agree with much of what you are saying, but where I don't agree is the thinking that believers still desire sin. I don't believe they do. Because I believe they are truly new creations. And as their minds are renewed to who they are - fruit comes naturally. Which is exactly what you quote in the post before this - good trees DON'T bear bad fruit.
Thanks for your reply
C.
Well, i'd be quite concerned if you didn't know that Discipline of the Lord is to transform your character and conduct from what is wrong - If we are sinless perfectionists then why would there be Discipline - Especially Discipline is proof of God's love Hebrews 12
James 14:7
17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
1 John 3:4
4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Why would we need to examine ourselves if we are sinless perfectionists?
Some people treat Christianity as if it were not the reality of pressing on, failing, but continually pressing on towards the Goal - forgetting what is behind me - but not denying that it happened
James 14:7
17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
1 John 3:4
4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Why would we need to examine ourselves if we are sinless perfectionists?
Some people treat Christianity as if it were not the reality of pressing on, failing, but continually pressing on towards the Goal - forgetting what is behind me - but not denying that it happened
No - it's reality of a future hope - in the Return of Jesus Christ to fix all things - We are not saying that we are in control of that inner man ie the flesh -- that's the point of picking up your Cross and following Jesus - unless Jesus didn't say that, or that the sins committed by the apostles in the rest of scripture after they were saved means that they didn't know Jesus
Like Peter who preferred hang out with Jews over Gentiles, but hung out with Gentiles when no jews were around
this sounds like stuff from Bethel and IHOP - when are the glory clouds coming down with the gold dust - bark bark bark
Like Peter who preferred hang out with Jews over Gentiles, but hung out with Gentiles when no jews were around
this sounds like stuff from Bethel and IHOP - when are the glory clouds coming down with the gold dust - bark bark bark
K
That is why we are trying to show you the whole Word of God Grace777x70, not just give you half the picture.....
In order to grow and mature you have to embrace the whole Word of God, and part of His Word comes with tough love scriptures that make us examine ourselves to make sure we are operating in the faith.
Paul's epistles were directed at other believers who:
a) were deceived away from the truth by false teaching.......................Galatians
b) thought they could live and do whatever they want..........1 and 2 Corinthians
c) Paul also explained the proper way we are to carry ourselves..........Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and Thessalonians