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If we walk in darkness, a lie and not the truth, we attempt to say that it is our deeds that prove that we have fellowship with the Lord and with each other.
But its not our deeds.
Its our open-ness and honesty. We admit our deeds are not perfect. We admit we lack in certain areas. This is why we can have fellowship with one another. Because we know we all have needs and lack. None of us are perfect.
But the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ cleanses us of all our sin.
Meaning, even though we may see un-righteousness in each other, the Lord Jesus Christ sees His Blood and His Spirit cleansing us and perfecting us.
Does the Lord Jesus Christ have Faith that His Blood cleanses us from all sin? Yes, of course, or He wouldn't have shed it. So the 'deeds' that 'prove' you are walking in the Light is believing that the Blood of Christ cleanses you from all your sin. And admitting when you do sin.
Having fellowship with each other isn't because we are walking perfectly in the Spirit together. Having fellowship with each other is seeing we are all in the same boat with each other. Desperately needing the Help of our Lord Jesus Christ at all times.
We are weak but He is Strong.
But its not our deeds.
Its our open-ness and honesty. We admit our deeds are not perfect. We admit we lack in certain areas. This is why we can have fellowship with one another. Because we know we all have needs and lack. None of us are perfect.
But the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ cleanses us of all our sin.
Meaning, even though we may see un-righteousness in each other, the Lord Jesus Christ sees His Blood and His Spirit cleansing us and perfecting us.
Does the Lord Jesus Christ have Faith that His Blood cleanses us from all sin? Yes, of course, or He wouldn't have shed it. So the 'deeds' that 'prove' you are walking in the Light is believing that the Blood of Christ cleanses you from all your sin. And admitting when you do sin.
Having fellowship with each other isn't because we are walking perfectly in the Spirit together. Having fellowship with each other is seeing we are all in the same boat with each other. Desperately needing the Help of our Lord Jesus Christ at all times.
We are weak but He is Strong.
Where is the scripture?... I definitely agree that we can get deceived from the truth from false teaching....I see it being done every day....
..anyone can say something then allude to a book n the bible.....I have noticed that even when people do put up scripture....I need to go look at it because it is usually taken out of context..
context is king...if you take a scripture out of context..that "text" will "con" you..
..anyone can say something then allude to a book n the bible.....I have noticed that even when people do put up scripture....I need to go look at it because it is usually taken out of context..context is king...if you take a scripture out of context..that "text" will "con" you..
I'm not sure where we are not in agreement.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Notice this Scripture says examine to see if you are in the faith... not if you are still in the faith... that's why Paul says or do you not understand Jesus Christ is in you? He's pointing to their conversion.
So is John here:
1 John 3:14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
What I am saying is this: We are new creations. To the degree our mind is renewed we prove the will of God. We grow into the fullness of Christ. The discipline of the Lord is for us to grow into who we are in Christ.
Where are we not in agreement? I said believers can sin, with 3 points...
1. Believers do not desire sin.
2. Believers are not enslaved to sin (which means they don't have to sin).
3. As we understand Him and know Him, we discover ourselves.
1 John 3:1See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[SUP]a[/SUP] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
C.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Notice this Scripture says examine to see if you are in the faith... not if you are still in the faith... that's why Paul says or do you not understand Jesus Christ is in you? He's pointing to their conversion.
So is John here:
1 John 3:14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
What I am saying is this: We are new creations. To the degree our mind is renewed we prove the will of God. We grow into the fullness of Christ. The discipline of the Lord is for us to grow into who we are in Christ.
Where are we not in agreement? I said believers can sin, with 3 points...
1. Believers do not desire sin.
2. Believers are not enslaved to sin (which means they don't have to sin).
3. As we understand Him and know Him, we discover ourselves.
1 John 3:1See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[SUP]a[/SUP] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
C.
K
I never said we desire to keep sinning...............
What I said is we do still sin in our live, it is not continuous habitual sin but we do still sin.
Apostle John uses the present (1 John 1:8) and the past (1 John 1:10) tense in speaking on sin here, he is not defending a sinless perfection doctrine.
Sinless perfection says we never sin again in our lives ever, and only those who reach this point get eternal life. That is a lie and not even Paul stated or taught he was without sin, he even told the Philippians (chapter 3) who thought he was perfect that he wasn't.
This was 30 years after his conversion and Paul still stated he had not reached perfection or maturity yet !!!
We don't change over night it is a process and some sinful behaviors are harder to put an end to then others, which is why John speaks of the struggling Christian in 1 John 5:16.
What I said is we do still sin in our live, it is not continuous habitual sin but we do still sin.
Apostle John uses the present (1 John 1:8) and the past (1 John 1:10) tense in speaking on sin here, he is not defending a sinless perfection doctrine.
Sinless perfection says we never sin again in our lives ever, and only those who reach this point get eternal life. That is a lie and not even Paul stated or taught he was without sin, he even told the Philippians (chapter 3) who thought he was perfect that he wasn't.
This was 30 years after his conversion and Paul still stated he had not reached perfection or maturity yet !!!
We don't change over night it is a process and some sinful behaviors are harder to put an end to then others, which is why John speaks of the struggling Christian in 1 John 5:16.
I just love how you continuously state false accusations.....
I believe that the new creation ..the inner man of the heart....the new man in Christ is incorruptible..we have told you this about 15 times now....it doesn't matter how many times we tell you what we believe.....it's irrelevant to you ....as you constantly twist what is being said......it is such a waste of time dealing with you.....God love ya'
I believe that the new creation ..the inner man of the heart....the new man in Christ is incorruptible..we have told you this about 15 times now....it doesn't matter how many times we tell you what we believe.....it's irrelevant to you ....as you constantly twist what is being said......it is such a waste of time dealing with you.....God love ya'
But you only identify with the inner man. And that's exactly what the gnostics did. You do not recognize the sin nature, which effectively is saying that you don't have one. No different than what the gnostics thought. They thought they were saved regardless of how they lived because they were spiritual. No different than what you teach.
light reveals things clearly; darkness clouds over them so they are not perceived or understood.
walking in the light doesn't necessarily mean your foot never slips - but when it does, you see where you should have stepped, and you understand where you should put your foot next, in order to keep to the path.
if you walk in darkness, and you trip, how do you know what caused you to fall? or where to step next, so you won't fall again?
if you walk in light, you can look, and see, and understand - but if you walk in darkness, even if you look, you do not see, and you cannot understand.
The path of the righteous is like the morning sun,
shining ever brighter till the full light of day.
But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
they do not know what makes them stumble.
(Proverbs 4:18-19)
shining ever brighter till the full light of day.
But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
they do not know what makes them stumble.
(Proverbs 4:18-19)
walking in the light doesn't necessarily mean your foot never slips - but when it does, you see where you should have stepped, and you understand where you should put your foot next, in order to keep to the path.
if you walk in darkness, and you trip, how do you know what caused you to fall? or where to step next, so you won't fall again?
if you walk in light, you can look, and see, and understand - but if you walk in darkness, even if you look, you do not see, and you cannot understand.
though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again,
but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes.
(Proverb 24:16)
but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes.
(Proverb 24:16)
We are almost in agreement.
We don't have a sin nature, we have sin habits. As our mind is renewed this changes to who we really are in Christ.
I don't believe we need to be in sinless perfection to be saved. In fact, that thinking is broken and shows an unrenewed mind. It says we don't desire God's ways unless we fear for our eternal destiny. And that's 180 degrees opposite of what I am saying.
It's the goodness and kindness of God that causes repentance.
C.
We don't have a sin nature, we have sin habits. As our mind is renewed this changes to who we really are in Christ.
I don't believe we need to be in sinless perfection to be saved. In fact, that thinking is broken and shows an unrenewed mind. It says we don't desire God's ways unless we fear for our eternal destiny. And that's 180 degrees opposite of what I am saying.
It's the goodness and kindness of God that causes repentance.
C.
K
Where is the scripture?... I definitely agree that we can get deceived from the truth from false teaching....I see it being done every day......anyone can say something then allude to a book n the bible.....I have noticed that even when people do put up scripture....I need to go look at it because it is usually taken out of context..
context is king...if you take a scripture out of context..that "text" will "con" you..
..anyone can say something then allude to a book n the bible.....I have noticed that even when people do put up scripture....I need to go look at it because it is usually taken out of context..context is king...if you take a scripture out of context..that "text" will "con" you..
Who's context are you speaking of though, because I have seen you take scripture and apply the wrong context to it to because you have listened to other men on how to interpret it.
Just yesterday we had a discussion on Ephesians 4:17-32, where I mentioned how this passage was speaking how we can no longer walk in the sinful ways we previously walked. That the grieving the Holy Spirit is tied to these scriptures, and does not stand alone.
You called my understanding faulty when it is not because it is exactly what Paul is stating there............
I understand context and also know scripture can not be pulled and used to stand alone, scripture must be used to interpret scripture. Making scriptures stand alone will almost always lead to the wrong context !!!
What scripture are asking for specifically, because there is a number of passages that speak on believers getting drawn away and deceived by false teaching ????
There is not just one scripture that speaks on this................
Paul even says in Acts 20:28-31 that he warned these people day and night for 3 years in tears..........
Day and night for 3 years in tears warning these people, that sounds clearly more is at stake then just a loss of rewards !!!
K
Yes we don't have a sin nature, or in other terms we don't live as slaves to sin.......I can agree on that !!!
Because the bible says you can not serve both Him and sin in order to have eternal life, and if we are a slave to sin that means we are still serving our sin nature and not our new spirit nature.
The problem I have is that when some speak they talk as if that change is only done internally, and say externally we still remain the same sinful people we were before.
That is false teaching as the internal change will effect and thus change our actions externally !!!
LOL...you are so funny....I say all the time that grace is not a license to sin..and that sin will destroy you and those you love....I also talk about the flesh and the power of sin in the flesh.
I talk about how the true grace of the gospel of Christ will teach us how to live godly in this present world. I have quoted Titus 2:11-12 a lot.
What you are mad about it that I don't call the "power of sin" in my flesh - as my identity.
What you are mad about is that I keep showing you through scripture that the "old man" is a goner....he's dead, dead, dead.
My true identity is my new creation in Christ which has been created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:24
Now, I know you are going to keep on with your false witness...but that is your nature it seems....it's a shame you are like this....repent! ( change your mind and agree with what the Lord has done for you )...it will stop you from being so bitter and venomous......God bless you and we do too!
I talk about how the true grace of the gospel of Christ will teach us how to live godly in this present world. I have quoted Titus 2:11-12 a lot.
What you are mad about it that I don't call the "power of sin" in my flesh - as my identity.
What you are mad about is that I keep showing you through scripture that the "old man" is a goner....he's dead, dead, dead.
My true identity is my new creation in Christ which has been created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:24
Now, I know you are going to keep on with your false witness...but that is your nature it seems....it's a shame you are like this....repent! ( change your mind and agree with what the Lord has done for you )...it will stop you from being so bitter and venomous......God bless you and we do too!