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FreeNChrist
Guest
Brown is a messianic Jew who knows about as much about grace as you do, and that ain't much.
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Brown is a messianic Jew who knows about as much about grace as you do, and that ain't much.
Cool.
Here is a link for some answers to Dr. Brown..Dr. Brown.. actually shares further on down in the comment section..
Some Honest Answers for Michael Brown – Escape to Reality
Here is a link for some answers to Dr. Brown..Dr. Brown.. actually shares further on down in the comment section..
Some Honest Answers for Michael Brown – Escape to Reality
This is denegration of moral precept and principle. The law succeeded in identifying and showing the problem of being righteous and having a relationship with the Lord.
Paul describes himself like this
confidence in the flesh, I have more.......as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
Phil 3:4-6
I have heard too many times that following the law is impossible. What Paul is saying following the letter of the law is vanity, it is the relationship that matters.
So Paul is expecting all to walk righteously as to the law ( ie behaviour ) but no longer the letter.
The only reason to dismiss the law is because of failure, not success. Paul would stand over you and say as sinners you need to repent and get yourselfs right with the Lord and live holy, righteous, pure lives.
But your consciences testify that you cannot do this. So therefore you do not have the power of the Lord as Paul experienced it, and your hyper-grace fails you.
I think Dr. Brown has a zeal for God but without knowledge of the gospel of the grace of Christ..he is a typical.."works-salvationists"
I tried his religion a number of times with all my heart...and it doesn't come close to knowing Jesus! I'll stick with my relationship I have now with my Lord in the grace He has taught me..
I tried his religion a number of times with all my heart...and it doesn't come close to knowing Jesus! I'll stick with my relationship I have now with my Lord in the grace He has taught me..
K
KennethC
Guest
Wrong and I suggest you instead of getting snotty and falsely accusing go read Paul's epistles some more on the topic....
Paul did not teach the law was done away with or voided out, he only stated that on the written ordinance form of the Mosaic law.
Paul said and showed in Romans 3:31 and Romans 13:9-10 we establish the law in our lives and thus fulfill them by walking in love.
The yoke we can not bear is keeping the whole entire written law on our own regard, this is what is being said in Acts 15....Again the written ordinances of the Mosaic law !!!
The only people that need to try to excuse away the 10 Commandments is those that constantly and deliberately transgress them, so they don't have to answer for their sinful ways.
The scriptures you posted referred to the written ordinances of the Mosaic law, not the moral standard we uphold by the Holy Spirit.
Do you really think the Holy Spirit will allow us to transgress against God ???
A Christian in the jungle of Brazil could go his whole life without hearing about the 10 commandments and by virtue of "being in Christ"..walk in love which would be the fulfilling of the law.
We don't need to hear about commandments to live..the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus will lead us..
Now, it's a good thing to look at all of scripture..as we can profit from it but we don't use it to live from....we live from Him..and Him alone.
Remember..all scripture is FOR us to learn from..but not all scripture is written TO us...
Don't take some one else's medicine!....
We don't need to hear about commandments to live..the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus will lead us..
Now, it's a good thing to look at all of scripture..as we can profit from it but we don't use it to live from....we live from Him..and Him alone.
Remember..all scripture is FOR us to learn from..but not all scripture is written TO us...
Don't take some one else's medicine!....
K
KennethC
Guest
Paul Ellis down plays things to much to make them soothing, as he said on that site you gave that if we sin we just make God sad.
That is not what Apostle Paul said in Romans 8, as Paul said those who continue to live by the flesh are enmity to God. Not that it just makes Him sad............
Ellis says we are always 100% pleasing to God which is not correct, as the things done in the flesh never pleases Him.
K
KennethC
Guest
A Christian in the jungle of Brazil could go his whole life without hearing about the 10 commandments and by virtue of "being in Christ"..walk in love which would be the fulfilling of the law.
We don't need to hear about commandments to live..the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus will lead us..
Now, it's a good thing to look at all of scripture..as we can profit from it but we don't use it to live from....we live from Him..and Him alone.
Remember..all scripture is FOR us to learn from..but not all scripture is written TO us...
Don't take some one else's medicine!....
Who said anything about having to hear the 10 Commandments, that has nothing to do with stating they will be upheld by walking in love. Apostle Paul shows this clearly they will be, not they are voided or done away with.
So,,,you don't like the term "sad"?...that is a stumbling block to you?.......my goodness...
.....it's the carnal mind that is hostile to God....that's why it is supposed to get renewed to who you are in Christ..
Romans 8:7-9 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
.....it's the carnal mind that is hostile to God....that's why it is supposed to get renewed to who you are in Christ..
Romans 8:7-9 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
He probably did say that God is sad when we are being destroyed or destroying others..any good parent would be..
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Here is a quote from the site about sin and grieving the Spirit of God...it is a good thing I double-check everything you say...
As I say elsewhere, the notion that “Hyper-grace preachers say God is not grieved by your sin” is a myth. Your choices and behavior can grieve the Holy Spirit, but only because he cares for you and wants you to prosper in every area of your life. Your behavior matters because you matter. But don’t confuse behavior with identity. You are not defined by what you do. Your identity is Christ and in him you are and always will be 100 percent pleasing and acceptable to God.
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Here is a quote from the site about sin and grieving the Spirit of God...it is a good thing I double-check everything you say...
As I say elsewhere, the notion that “Hyper-grace preachers say God is not grieved by your sin” is a myth. Your choices and behavior can grieve the Holy Spirit, but only because he cares for you and wants you to prosper in every area of your life. Your behavior matters because you matter. But don’t confuse behavior with identity. You are not defined by what you do. Your identity is Christ and in him you are and always will be 100 percent pleasing and acceptable to God.
K
KennethC
Guest
I don't like it because it downplays or water's down the truth, it does not just sadden God.
It takes and breaks the fellowship or unity we have with the Holy Spirit, and that unity needs to be restored or consequences will follow.
First of all, you haven't shown this separation of Gods 'moral' standard of the law from Moses written 'ordinances' in the bible.
You keep saying falsely accuse. I'm not falsely accusing. You look to the law to uphold what you think is Gods Moral Standard.
Slice and dice any which way you like, that is working at the law.
The only people who aren't worried about the 10 commandments are those who are dead to the law so they can be alive to God.
You either trust the Holy Spirit to do His Work or you lean on your own understanding of Gods 'Moral' Standard. You can't do both or you are double minded. Waffling back and forth between your work and His Work.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
You do know that you contradict yourself in every post you make, right? Not that I am surprised, that's what happens when you try to have it both ways by mixing law and grace.
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KennethC
Guest
Which is downplaying the truth and not being honest because our behavior in how we carry ourselves is what identifies us as being in Christ.
Do you think a person walking around always hating others and being unforgiving is in Christ ???
Do you think a person walking around always stealing from others is in Christ ???
Ellis just said these behaviors don't matter which in turn means you can be/do these things and still be in Christ. That is false teaching !!!
Our behaviors are guided by the Holy Spirit, therefore they should and must be brought to align with the faith...........
We can not be a light to the world if we continue walking in darkness (sinful ways), therefore our identity should match the faith we have in Christ.
sin is very destructive....it's our mind that gets hostile/enmity towards God.....we run to our Father when we sin...it's a blessing to know where you stand in Christ...that He has not left..we leave in our minds...that's what sin does..it distorts our view of God and His character and love for us......confession is good for the soul as they say..
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KennethC
Guest
That big and bolded part is a false accusation !!!
Nowhere have I ever said by upholding the written law is God's moral law, you keep reversing the order...........
I said God's moral upholds the commandments, big difference in the order....
You place obedience to the law before God's moral..........I place God's moral as upholding the law
Tell me grandpa then...............Can you go and steal all you want, murder all you want, covet all you want, lie all you want, commit adultery all you want now ??? Why or Why not ???
Oh brother......Ellis nor any other grace believer says to continue to walk in sin...in fact...they say the complete opposite......your religion is blinding you from what is actually being said...
K
KennethC
Guest
Ellis is the one who said our behaviors don't matter, not me !!!
He is the blind one for teaching in such a way as our behaviors are an exact physical proof of the Holy Spirit abiding in us, which means it shows our identity we have in Christ to salvation.
You're swallowing a camel.
You are focusing on what a person must do instead of what Christ did.
I'm sure your reasoning seems honest, you want people to be holy, righteous, etc. But you can not add to Christ work. Fruit comes as a person understands God not as they understand the law. In all of the passages you mentioned you forgot the surrounding verses.
For instance; Paul says he is "blameless" this is the same word Job used of himself. There is no righteousness from the law. Because the mere act of following the law shows lack of righteousness. It's called falling from grace. You miss one part, you miss all parts.
The law is called the ministry of death, that has come to an end/been abolished stop trying to bring it back. We now have the ministry of the Spirit, not the ministry of PeterJens, The SPIRIT is able to make people stand or fall. Not you and your condemnation.
Let me make it clear for you: The law was abolished. Christ is the fulfillment of the law. Because love is the fulfillment of the law. As we know Him (who is love) we walk in love. And this fulfills the law. We don't focus on the law, we focus on Him. And focusing on Him we exceed the law becomes it comes from the new creation reality.
Christ did not come so that you could fulfill the law. He come so that you might be saved. And those who are forgiven much, love much. So you don't minimize forgiveness. You maximize it.
C.
You are focusing on what a person must do instead of what Christ did.
I'm sure your reasoning seems honest, you want people to be holy, righteous, etc. But you can not add to Christ work. Fruit comes as a person understands God not as they understand the law. In all of the passages you mentioned you forgot the surrounding verses.
For instance; Paul says he is "blameless" this is the same word Job used of himself. There is no righteousness from the law. Because the mere act of following the law shows lack of righteousness. It's called falling from grace. You miss one part, you miss all parts.
The law is called the ministry of death, that has come to an end/been abolished stop trying to bring it back. We now have the ministry of the Spirit, not the ministry of PeterJens, The SPIRIT is able to make people stand or fall. Not you and your condemnation.
Let me make it clear for you: The law was abolished. Christ is the fulfillment of the law. Because love is the fulfillment of the law. As we know Him (who is love) we walk in love. And this fulfills the law. We don't focus on the law, we focus on Him. And focusing on Him we exceed the law becomes it comes from the new creation reality.
Christ did not come so that you could fulfill the law. He come so that you might be saved. And those who are forgiven much, love much. So you don't minimize forgiveness. You maximize it.
C.
Actually Paul said the carnal mind is enmity with God. And then later he said, but you don't walk by the flesh, but by the Spirit.
He said where sin abounds grace abounds. We don't use this for an excuse to sin. Because we don't desire sin. That's the power of Christ. Embracing people are new creations is the beginning of understanding grace.
As we accept people as new creations. And that sin is actually death and destruction. And not a good thing to be jealous of, but actually pity those who do it, our words will bring life to them. Not accusation and condemnation. Which is the enemy's works.
C.
He said where sin abounds grace abounds. We don't use this for an excuse to sin. Because we don't desire sin. That's the power of Christ. Embracing people are new creations is the beginning of understanding grace.
As we accept people as new creations. And that sin is actually death and destruction. And not a good thing to be jealous of, but actually pity those who do it, our words will bring life to them. Not accusation and condemnation. Which is the enemy's works.
C.