Vote on Obsession with confession(1st John 1:9,sin confession)

[FreeNChrist]

That's just further confirmation that the letter is to his little children, not to those who are trying to lead them astray.

To them, about those trying to lead them astray.

 

[Grace777x70]

John as all writers have done - is writing the letter to all those that would hear it spoken out to them in an assembly......in all letters in the NT the writers often addressed different groups of people and different issues...

The scriptures were written FOR to learn from us but not all scripture is written TO us..

Context is king..if you don't read a scripture in context..that "text: will "con" you..

Remember...don't take someone else's medicine...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

John as all writers have done - is writing the letter to all those that would hear it spoken out to them in an assembly......in all letters in the NT the writers often addressed different groups of people and different issues...

The scriptures were written FOR to learn from us but not all scripture is written TO us..

Context is king..if you don't read a scripture in context..that "text: will "con" you..

Remember...don't take someone else's medicine...

But again, there are no distinctions in John's letter to warrant the claim that he was addressing unbelieving gnostics. None. It's simply something somebody made up, and you want to believe.

 

[ladylynn]

It's not an issue of being emotionally healed, but being spiritually healed. If a person sins after coming to the faith, there is a spiritual problem that needs healing. There is no strength in a past forgiveness to make that happen.

Actually, there is. It may take time for us to realize it but when we do realize the love that sent Him to the Cross once and for all gave us forgiveness of all our sins., we then have the confidence to begin to delve into those deep problem issues and learn what causes us to think wrong and that is when the Holy Spirit uses the Bible to reveal to our minds and to renew our mind IN the truth., and we are set free from those traps that led us to trying to meet our own needs for healing. All we need to know is ultimately at the Cross.

The true power is in the blood of Jesus that made us white as snow.,He set our sins as far as the east is from the west for Him to remember them NO more. The problem often is WE can't forget but He can show us how to acknowledge the gift He gave of no condemnation. We then can see our past sins and guilt and bring it out into the open, seeing it for what it is so the enemy can't keep it hidden and dark and mysterious. These things need to be brought out into the light so we can receive what is ours IN Christ. satan wants to keep us in darkness.

 

[FreeNChrist]

But again, there are no distinctions in John's letter to warrant the claim that he was addressing unbelieving gnostics. None. It's simply something somebody made up, and you want to believe.

Then who do you think are the ones trying to lead them astray that John says he is writing about??

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Then who do you think are the ones trying to lead them astray that John says he is writing about??

Obviously, gnostics among probably others as well.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Obviously, gnostics among probably others as well.

Well that's a start anyway.

 

[Grace777x70]

But again, there are no distinctions in John's letter to warrant the claim that he was addressing unbelieving gnostics. None. It's simply something somebody made up, and you want to believe.

Obviously, gnostics among probably others as well.

one post you said John was not addressing gnostics....then you agreed he was....I think if you looked at 1 John chapter 1 with an open heart..you will see things come together...I know it did for me....I was like you at the start...didn't believe this gnostic thing..but I prayed and God open my eyes...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

one post you said John was not addressing gnostics....then you agreed he was....I think if you looked at 1 John chapter 1 with an open heart..you will see things come together...I know it did for me....I was like you at the start...didn't believe this gnostic thing..but I prayed and God open my eyes...

I thought I was pretty clear that John was warning believers (my little children) not to fall victim to gnostic-type beliefs, and that he was not addressing gnostic unbelievers as you and Prince claim. The letter was to all believers. Period.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I thought I was pretty clear that John was warning believers (my little children) not to fall victim to gnostic-type beliefs, and that he was not addressing gnostic unbelievers as you and Prince claim. The letter was to all believers. Period.

How could he warn believers not to fall prey to gnostic-type beliefs without addressing those gnostic-type beliefs?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How could he warn believers not to fall prey to gnostic-type beliefs without addressing those gnostic-type beliefs?

That's exactly what he did. But he was not addressing unbelieving gnostics; he was addressing believers.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's exactly what he did. But he was not addressing unbelieving gnostics; he was addressing believers.

He is addressing the beliefs of the unbelieving Gnostics.

 

[Grace777x70]

John is writing the letter to all those that would hear it spoken out to them in an assembly......in all letters in the NT the writers often addressed different groups of people and different issues....

Look for the "you" and "we, our " - 2 different groups of people....there is also a general "we" pertaining to all of mankind inclusive

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we ( believers - namely John ) have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"

(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.

"We ( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you ( unbelievers - gnostics ) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our ( believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).

This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )

"This is the message we( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you( unbelievers ): God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).

John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).


"If we ( all people in general ) claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).

In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He is addressing the beliefs of the unbelieving Gnostics.

He was simply telling his disciples to avoid the gnostic belief that they (the disciples) were without sin.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.[/I][/B]

What evidence do you have that the 'gnostics' were not believers?

 

[Grace777x70]

I don't know any of the people from 2,000 years ago personally...well not yet..I will soon though when I go to be with the Lord!

 

[FreeNChrist]

He was simply telling his disciples to avoid the gnostic belief that they (the disciples) were without sin.

Alrighty then, you're all over the map again.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Alrighty then, you're all over the map again.

I'm being very consistent. I'm just not on your map.

 

[ladylynn]

Sin interrupts our communion with God, but does not cause us to lose our union with Christ.

Confession is essential to experiencing the peace that is interrupted when we sin. Our relationship with God is affected by sin issues in our life. We do not experience the relational aspect of our faith when we are caught up in sin.

It is us believers who move from God when we sin and don't understand grace. But God is still in the same place He was before 'we' moved. Most of the time Christians who do move from God do so because they carry the shame and guilt and failure of their sin. And as they allow that shame to accuse them with thoughts like "I should never have done such a thing., I should have known better." (actually it's the accuser of the brethren,satan) and the Christian forgets they were cleansed already and end up walking as un cleansed sinner instead of who they are CLEANSED FORGIVEN SONS.

If that Christian doesn't know they already have the gift of no condemnation., they will walk around being an easy target for the devil. The understanding of grace for that person would CHANGE his approach of how he looks at his life with God giving him the power IN JESUS to turn to God and away from sin.

The Bible says in 2 Peter 1 about the development of our faith that He has given us all things pertaining to life and godliness through the true knowledge of God.. vs3... That He has granted us these great and precious magnificent promises in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature ...vs5. apply all diligence...... perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness.,love, ... for if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. (for he who lacks these qualities is blind or shortsighted having FORGOTTEN HIS PURIFICATION FROM HIS FORMER SINS) vs.9
That is when the devil can move in and condemn successfully., causing a believer to turn from God because of guilt.

If that Christian does not have the knowledge of who they are IN Christ and that Jesus has already secured their position of son-ship and no condemnation., they stay away from God much like someone who is indebted and has no ability to pay. So they avoid the places of the person they owe. This of course makes them weaker in the knowledge of God.



Think about it this way. If a man does things that are inappropriate in his relationship with his wife, they affect the relationship, even though the man is still married to his wife. Confession to the wife and requesting forgiveness should result in a restoration of the relationship, and possibly even a strengthening of it. The man is acknowledging these acts of betrayal in the relationship, and expressing sorrow for them, and asking for a restoration of the relationship.

The difference with God is we already do have the assurance in His Word that we are already forgiven and restoration has been accomplished IN JESUS. (only if we believe Jesus accomplished our solid foundation of forgiveness and no condemnation IN Christ) Our faith in HIM will free us to draw close to God because He loves us and we are guaranteed a forgiveness already completed. We love God because He first loved us. Not forgetting we have already been cleansed. 2 Peter.1:9

I know that in many human relationships, admitting such transgressions results in hard feelings and maybe even a termination in the relationship. Our human relationships are damaged through the Fall, and forgiveness is something that a wife may not extend. However, in the ideal world, this is the way it should be. We humans don't relate to each other in the way that we should.

In addition, confession leads to cleansing by God. I think this is a reference to an active sanctification that God is performing on our behalf as we yield ourselves to him.

The Christian has already been cleansed and we need to know that, believe it and walk in it.
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. Jesus is our sanctification. 1Cor.1:30

Just so my remarks are not misinterpreted, I don't think Christians lose their salvation. Their unity with Christ is not dissolved by sin. However, our communion or experience of relationship closeness to God is affect by our acts of sin, which are betrayals of the relationship. In a relationship sense, we are forgiven when we confess, and cleansing occurs. I think this cleansing relates to sanctification to separate us from the propensity of committing the sin.

Again, our relationship is damaged when we do not have faith in the finished work of Christ for our relationship with God the Father who is now our Father too. We are not separated from God by God, we cause our own separation by our lack of knowing what our salvation and Christ actually has accomplished. No separation, no condemnation., no veil separating us from the Holy of Holies. Jesus made a Way., He is the Way.

There is a sense that repentance is a one-time thing which occurs when we come to faith, but our mind is continually being changed as we are conformed to the image of Christ

Our confession must be "Thank you Jesus for what you already did and already accomplished in and for me. Now Lord show me how to work out what You have put in me when You saved me." When we do this, that is when our minds are changed to see God in a proper way. His love is based on Him and not us and what we do. So we are learning how to love others based on God and not what people do. Confession is an integral part of this, and is not a denial of the one-time event that occurs at the moment of salvation. Confession in the continuing sense is more concerned with a continuation of the close relationship experience with God. If a Christian is sinning and not confessing his acts of betrayal, they are not being cleansed of their sin like they should be.

Again., faith in the power of Christ's sacrifice is what we need to magnify. It is when we can rest in Christ for our relationship with God that we will be maturing in the faith. Jesus love for us is unchanging and as we magnify Jesus in our life, we learn to be more like Him as we see what He has already accomplished in and for us.

See I John 1:8-9.

This is one of many topics that I strongly dislike about the hyper-grace camp. While reacting against one extreme, they swerve over into the opposite ditch. Confession is connected strongly to a healthy relationship with God.[/QUOTE

This idea of people using terms like "hyper-grace camp" is just a lack of understanding how extremely wonderful our salvation really is. We are learning that after we were first saved, the Bible and the HolySpirit has much more for us to learn about this great salvation that Jesus has accomplished in and for us. Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord. And that is what we need to do. It is our JOY.

 

[PeterJens]

The only way to be perfect the way our father In heaven Is perfect Is to be reborn.
I understand what you are saying though.
After you are reborn then right believing will produce right doing.

Let me take your proposition. You are saying by being born again you will automatically walk in righteousness, empowered by the Spirit?

Then why all the encouragement in the letters to walk in the Spirit and not the Flesh? Why did the Lord rebuke those who started the walk in love and enthusiasm and had lost it?

The reason is simple. There is literally nothing automatic about it, only in your own minds. You feel the emotional acceptance to the cross is enough to cleanse you of the sin you do, no matter how persistent it is.

It is obvious you are convinced praising the Lord is all there is to the walk. Being an evil-doer carries no fear for you.
Being aware of your actions has now become irrelevant, you just mystically commune with the Lord.

Why read the bible or meditate on issues of grace or theology? Just experience the mystical communion, astral travel to the 3rd heaven.

Your model of man the sinner is so spiritual, it is of no value to everyday life. You blunt any conviction about behaviour, as if the heart of man is sorted and will just follow the Spirit with no discipline, effort or prompting.

This is not my experience, rather 100% the opposite. Difficult things are always opposed by our hearts, and the broad road is so much easier to follow and just go along with. If sounds like there is no spiritual battle involved or deception, though people of the hyper-grace group are keen to see evil spirits everywhere and cast them out when nothing is going on other than sinful hearts sinning.

Paul dealing with Corinth is full of shock, rebuke, encouragement to change their walk, to not sleep with prostitutes, to be respectful etc. He did not call them unbelievers but to put effort into their walk and walk correctly. But to you this language is legalism, so again I say, you are wrong.