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Faith Alone?
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Hoffco
Guest
Nothing comes "alone" in life. Life is all relative to our relationship with God.! saved and lost live in their relationship to God, saved or lost, fulfill God's plan for them.!!
Are you talking about Calvinism?forgive me I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying.
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Hoffco
Guest
Nothing comes "alone" in life. Life is all relative to our relationship with God.! saved and lost live in their relationship to God, saved or lost, fulfill God's plan for them.!! Legal and practical are two important aspects of our salvation. What is "finished"/"paid" by Jesus on the cross is the "legal" part, the price of our salvation is paid in full to God; Now It is Just for God to forgive sinners,legally, Justified, and to save them ,practically, by sanctification, thus making their works holy, so God will accept,Justify them, based on their faith and their good works, because these works are done in faith and from a pure, holy nature. Rom. one is the Sanctification part of sal. with the good works that follow the new birth and shown in Rom.2 . Thus only born again, holy good works sinners, will be justified by their good works, as ch 2 teaches, " only those who "do the law will be justified". This is what harmonizes with James chps.1 and 2 . "justified by works". James never mentions the "legal" part of Justification; and Eph. is basically all practical holiness, and so Paul, in Eph. only has a couple, short lines, about our justification by faith, This "positional" Legal" aspect of Justification is mostly in Romans 3-5:18 and Gal.. In both books, Paul mixes the "practical ,new birth aspect, like Gal.1:5, "called" born of God,and 2:20, old nature crucified in, with, Christ. and the ever so clear,!! 6:7-10, IF, we don't "sow to the Spirit", live holy lives, we will perish and not reap "eternal life", this is mixed with Pauls part on Justification's legal aspect, in chs. 2,3,4, The new birth has NOTHING to do with our Justification, position in Christ. Regeneration is destroyed by this foney teaching that it is only "positional" and not "practical, holiness of living".
I just don't believe that faith + good works saves you.I do believe that If the faith Is alive then good works will be produced.
Grace alone through faith In CHRIST alone to the glory of GOD alone.
Grace alone through faith In CHRIST alone to the glory of GOD alone.
And a faith that doesn't produce good works is dead. Yet you believe a dead faith can save a person? That would mean you believe that grace alone without living faith saves a person.
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Hoffco
Guest
Seed Time, You say."Grace alone through faith" That is half the truth, and by it self is Double talk. The whole truth is: "saved by grace...through faith...unto good works... in Christ" You leave out works= double talk, a half truth ,thus a lie.! You really don't belief in UNCONDITIOAL salvation by grace alone. You add the condition of "faith alone". I, on the other hand ,believe ,on the one hand , sal. is unconditional. but on the other hand ,sal. is conditional. NO ONE can read the Bible and NOt see what I am teaching.!
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Hoffco
Guest
Seed Time, He Rose ,has you in a corner which you can NOT get out. He says, truthfully , You believe a "dead faith saves".!
On the one hand you aren't double-minded but on the other hand you are double-minded.
Salvation is a gift of God and not of works.
Therefore, salvation is not conditional.
You can bring all kinds of 'if-then' imaginations into this conversation. But the fact is that God does not repent of His Gifts or Calling.
All things work for the Good for those who Love God and are called according to His Purpose.
How could this be if salvation were conditional? How does a person stop loving the One who gave them the worlds most priceless gift?
Salvation is only conditional if a person mistakenly thinks that by their deeds they were saved. Then by their deeds they can be un-saved. If they are saved by their deeds then they love themselves for being so smart and good.
John 3:14-19
King James Version(KJV)
14.)And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15.)That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17.)For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18.)He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19.)He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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I don't see anything but faith alone when we are talking about salvation.
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James Is saying If your faith Is not true you won't do good works that match what you say and If your faith Is true you will do good physical works that match what you say and this Is what others would be able to look at.
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Romans 4:1-2
King James Version(KJV)
1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
The funny thing about these "good works"..are that they are in Christ Jesus ( and we are in Him ) which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. So, we walk in His good works which God has prepared for us. It's always His life and works flowing through and in us.
We participate with the Lord in these "good works" which are in Christ Jesus that flow out of us....He then rewards us for participating in the good works He has prepared for us to walk in..WOW
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
We participate with the Lord in these "good works" which are in Christ Jesus that flow out of us....He then rewards us for participating in the good works He has prepared for us to walk in..WOW
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
I'm talking about savation when I said Grace alone through faith alone In CHRIST alone to the glory of GOD alone.
GOD looks at the heart.Man looks at the outward appearances.
to seed_time_ harvest: #211
Apparently God did need to see physical works expressed by the body of Abraham because the angel of the Lord said, "For now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." Why He needed such is another question, surely not for His own knowledge. God bless.
Apparently God did need to see physical works expressed by the body of Abraham because the angel of the Lord said, "For now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." Why He needed such is another question, surely not for His own knowledge. God bless.
To seed_time_harvest: #212 Of course, no one will be able to see anything but faith alone when speaking about salvation as long as they restrict themselves to passages that speak only about faith. But that is not the whole story, eternal life and salvation are received by grace through faith which works through and with other factors, in love, to perfect or complete faith.
Eternal life:
Faith: John 3: 16
Love: James 1: 12; 1 John 3: 14; Luke 10: 25-29
Repentance: Acts 11: 18
Baptism: Romans 6: 4
Eats flesh of Jesus and drinks His blood: John 6: 54
Know God: John 17: 3; 1 John 2: 4
Perseverance in doing good: Romans 2: 7
Sanctification: Romans 6: 22
Sows to the spirit: Galatians 6: 8
Confession: 1 Timothy 6: 12
Hope: Titus 1: 2
In Christ: 1 John 5: 11; Romans 6: 3
Salvation:
Faith: Ephesians 2: 8, 9
Calling on the name of the Lord: Acts 2: 21
Repentance: 2 Corinthians 7: 10
Confession of Christ: Romans 10: 10
Baptism: Mark 16: 15. 16, 1 Peter 3: 21
Obedience: Hebrews 5: 9; Matthew 25: 35, 36
Hope: Romans 8: 24
Yes, faith is our introduction to the grace of God, but it is not the whole story, it is not even the greatest factor. Faith, hope and love coexist, but the greatest is love. Faith is greatly emphasized in the New Testament because the old covenant is of law-works of merit, while the new covenant is of grace- faith. The old covenant is based upon law and performance, the new covenant is based on grace and faith and love, which includes the works of faith and the obedience of faith. God bless.
Eternal life:
Faith: John 3: 16
Love: James 1: 12; 1 John 3: 14; Luke 10: 25-29
Repentance: Acts 11: 18
Baptism: Romans 6: 4
Eats flesh of Jesus and drinks His blood: John 6: 54
Know God: John 17: 3; 1 John 2: 4
Perseverance in doing good: Romans 2: 7
Sanctification: Romans 6: 22
Sows to the spirit: Galatians 6: 8
Confession: 1 Timothy 6: 12
Hope: Titus 1: 2
In Christ: 1 John 5: 11; Romans 6: 3
Salvation:
Faith: Ephesians 2: 8, 9
Calling on the name of the Lord: Acts 2: 21
Repentance: 2 Corinthians 7: 10
Confession of Christ: Romans 10: 10
Baptism: Mark 16: 15. 16, 1 Peter 3: 21
Obedience: Hebrews 5: 9; Matthew 25: 35, 36
Hope: Romans 8: 24
Yes, faith is our introduction to the grace of God, but it is not the whole story, it is not even the greatest factor. Faith, hope and love coexist, but the greatest is love. Faith is greatly emphasized in the New Testament because the old covenant is of law-works of merit, while the new covenant is of grace- faith. The old covenant is based upon law and performance, the new covenant is based on grace and faith and love, which includes the works of faith and the obedience of faith. God bless.
To seed_time_harvest: #205 I, for one, agree, salvation is not by faith + good works, but on the other hand, meaningful faith works in love. (Gal. 5: 6) Paul says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Eph. 2: 8, 9)
"Grace alone through faith In CHRIST alone to the glory of GOD alone."
This is a phrase commonly used to express some of the ideas upon which the Protestant reformation rests in regard to salvation. Some, myself included, have problems with the wording. If the intent of “grace alone” is to affirm that salvation is only by the grace of God, well and good; but to say salvation is by grace alone implies, in my mind, that all other factors, including faith, are excluded. This I cannot accept.
The second part of the phrase, “through faith in Christ alone,” to me is also ambiguous. Is it saying that salvation is by grace through faith alone, as many believe, or is the emphasis on Christ alone being the propitiation for sin? If we say that salvation is by grace through faith alone then we are denying that calling on the name of the Lord, repentance, baptism, confession of Christ and some acts of obedience also lead to salvation. And it diminishes the fact that hope and love coexist with faith, love bring the greatest value. Some on this forum appear to be suggesting that the Holy Spirit is also a propitiation for sin. This I cannot accept.
Yes, the glory of salvation belongs to God and not to man. Out of love, He gave the Son to taste death for every one, be resurrected and ascend to heaven to reign. The Holy Spirit was sent to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment and to guide those who are so convicted. When we by faith obey, we are submitting our will to His; we are trusting in God, not ourselves; the works we do are His works, not ours; by His doing we are in Christ, in whom are all spiritual blessings. God bless.
"Grace alone through faith In CHRIST alone to the glory of GOD alone."
This is a phrase commonly used to express some of the ideas upon which the Protestant reformation rests in regard to salvation. Some, myself included, have problems with the wording. If the intent of “grace alone” is to affirm that salvation is only by the grace of God, well and good; but to say salvation is by grace alone implies, in my mind, that all other factors, including faith, are excluded. This I cannot accept.
The second part of the phrase, “through faith in Christ alone,” to me is also ambiguous. Is it saying that salvation is by grace through faith alone, as many believe, or is the emphasis on Christ alone being the propitiation for sin? If we say that salvation is by grace through faith alone then we are denying that calling on the name of the Lord, repentance, baptism, confession of Christ and some acts of obedience also lead to salvation. And it diminishes the fact that hope and love coexist with faith, love bring the greatest value. Some on this forum appear to be suggesting that the Holy Spirit is also a propitiation for sin. This I cannot accept.
Yes, the glory of salvation belongs to God and not to man. Out of love, He gave the Son to taste death for every one, be resurrected and ascend to heaven to reign. The Holy Spirit was sent to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment and to guide those who are so convicted. When we by faith obey, we are submitting our will to His; we are trusting in God, not ourselves; the works we do are His works, not ours; by His doing we are in Christ, in whom are all spiritual blessings. God bless.