Vote on Obsession with confession(1st John 1:9,sin confession)
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Here is another editorial "we"
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." II Corinthians 5:10
We = Believers only
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." II Corinthians 5:10
We = Believers only
Confession
A redeemed heart
As a believer we have a redeemed heart, full of impurities and problems that need cleansing and washing, sorting through and learning new ways. This process is called sanctification, being yoked to Jesus and following out of choice.
Hyper-grace - The new heart doctrine
As a believer you have a new perfect heart, which knows the will of God in everything, in perfection. Nothing needs purifying or sorting out. You still have the old man or the flesh, which if you dwell in will lead to sin. Because of the new heart if you dwell in it you will walk in perfection. You walk in perfection by walking in who you now are with the new heart, but focusing on sin is just pushing the flesh as your focus, and condemnation which depresses the soul and brings you into denial.
These are two different faiths or spiritual views of reality. They cannot both be true. The problem is the new heart idea actually fails to come into existance, other than by people denying they sin, listening to their conscience and just thinking everything is ok as they are. This is called self deception, pure and simple. Confession is the beginning of admiting the truth in the inner self, which those who hold they are not sinners, hate to admit, but rather claim they are pure righteous followers of Jesus when they are not.
A redeemed heart
As a believer we have a redeemed heart, full of impurities and problems that need cleansing and washing, sorting through and learning new ways. This process is called sanctification, being yoked to Jesus and following out of choice.
Hyper-grace - The new heart doctrine
As a believer you have a new perfect heart, which knows the will of God in everything, in perfection. Nothing needs purifying or sorting out. You still have the old man or the flesh, which if you dwell in will lead to sin. Because of the new heart if you dwell in it you will walk in perfection. You walk in perfection by walking in who you now are with the new heart, but focusing on sin is just pushing the flesh as your focus, and condemnation which depresses the soul and brings you into denial.
These are two different faiths or spiritual views of reality. They cannot both be true. The problem is the new heart idea actually fails to come into existance, other than by people denying they sin, listening to their conscience and just thinking everything is ok as they are. This is called self deception, pure and simple. Confession is the beginning of admiting the truth in the inner self, which those who hold they are not sinners, hate to admit, but rather claim they are pure righteous followers of Jesus when they are not.
HeRoseFromTheDead, the posters here have given you more than enough truth to convince anyone with an open mind that your position is wrong. But, your mind is closed, and will not respond to the truth.
All of our sins have been forgiven - not are "being" forgiven.
The Bible says that without the shedding of blood, there can be no remission of sins.
To believe as you do, Jesus would have to keep going back to the cross and shed more blood as payment for our sins "being" forgiven.
No blood = no forgiveness of sins.
It was either a one-time event to pay for our every sin, and not just ours, but the whole world's, or it will have to be a continual sacrifice (as the Catholics teach).
Your works of righteousness to "keep" your salvation are but filthy rags to God.
Stop insulting Christ by trying to earn His gift.
All of our sins have been forgiven - not are "being" forgiven.
The Bible says that without the shedding of blood, there can be no remission of sins.
To believe as you do, Jesus would have to keep going back to the cross and shed more blood as payment for our sins "being" forgiven.
No blood = no forgiveness of sins.
It was either a one-time event to pay for our every sin, and not just ours, but the whole world's, or it will have to be a continual sacrifice (as the Catholics teach).
Your works of righteousness to "keep" your salvation are but filthy rags to God.
Stop insulting Christ by trying to earn His gift.
The argument you are putting forward is true, if sanctification is not part of the story.
If salvation was meeting Jesus, being made perfect, and then every sin from then forward causes you do loose salvation.
Your answer to this problem is belief matters more than sin, and you are made perfect, and grace ignores the sin into eternity, because you are saved. There is a quasi theology that support the new man who is perfect becoming the dominant character in the heart of the believer until perfection is achieved at the resurrection.
The biblical theological view is sanctification, the cleansing and remolding of the redeemed heart over time to a point of purity and righteousness where we walk in open fellowship with the Lord. The redeemed heart is a human heart purchased by Christs death, with which the Holy Spirit communes, working through healing and teaching new ways of behaviour and reactions, laying on the foundation of Jesus's love and salvation.
The new heart theology is a form of gnosticism, ranking spiritual authority and experience above normal life and reality. Who you are, your history and problems are irrelevant, only the new interactions and "revelations" So the prophet is held higher than expounding scripture or praise over dealing with failure and claiming victory in Jesus's love.
If salvation was meeting Jesus, being made perfect, and then every sin from then forward causes you do loose salvation.
Your answer to this problem is belief matters more than sin, and you are made perfect, and grace ignores the sin into eternity, because you are saved. There is a quasi theology that support the new man who is perfect becoming the dominant character in the heart of the believer until perfection is achieved at the resurrection.
The biblical theological view is sanctification, the cleansing and remolding of the redeemed heart over time to a point of purity and righteousness where we walk in open fellowship with the Lord. The redeemed heart is a human heart purchased by Christs death, with which the Holy Spirit communes, working through healing and teaching new ways of behaviour and reactions, laying on the foundation of Jesus's love and salvation.
The new heart theology is a form of gnosticism, ranking spiritual authority and experience above normal life and reality. Who you are, your history and problems are irrelevant, only the new interactions and "revelations" So the prophet is held higher than expounding scripture or praise over dealing with failure and claiming victory in Jesus's love.
What that means is if someone has an unforgiving attitude, it may show they were never truly saved to begin with. One of the gifts of the Spirit is the ability to completely forgive others who have wronged us, because we have been so greatly forgiven of our transgressions. It is from an attitude of gratefulness and humility. The lost are certainly not humble - they are full of pride. To them, having a humble spirit is a sign of weakness to be exploited.
To think that there is anything we must/can do to retain our salvation is to say we can pay for our own sin. We cannot. Jesus is the only propitiation.
Our relationship with God will be affected by our sin, (our spiritual growth), and He will chasten us for correction, but never punishment. If it were punishment, that means we have fallen under condemnation - something the Bible says can never happen.
The blood of Jesus has cleansed us from all unrighteousness. Not some, not only sins committed before salvation, but ALL.
To think that there is anything we must/can do to retain our salvation is to say we can pay for our own sin. We cannot. Jesus is the only propitiation.
Our relationship with God will be affected by our sin, (our spiritual growth), and He will chasten us for correction, but never punishment. If it were punishment, that means we have fallen under condemnation - something the Bible says can never happen.
The blood of Jesus has cleansed us from all unrighteousness. Not some, not only sins committed before salvation, but ALL.
You completely sidestepped the issue by conflating what a Christian is empowered to, and should, do with what they will always do, and by tentatively judging the faith of other Christians.
The question remains. If Jesus said that we will not be forgiven if we don't forgive others, how is it possible that those sins of unforgiveness were forgiven beforehand?
The question remains. If Jesus said that we will not be forgiven if we don't forgive others, how is it possible that those sins of unforgiveness were forgiven beforehand?
D.I.Y. Holiness...this one might hurt!
Practical holiness is a term to beware of as it often comes hiding a fishhook. Much of it is pure mixture, as the following soundbites illustrate:
Holiness preaching that emphasizes what you must do is carnal Christianity. Make no mistake, it comes straight out of the old covenant. Heed this sort of teaching and you will exalt the flesh at the expense of grace. And it won’t make you holy.
There are at least four ways to determine whether the holiness message you’re listening to reflects the condemning covenant of the law or the new and liberating covenant of grace:
Old covenant holiness is based on who you are (a bit of a reprobate) and is sold as a list of things you must do; new covenant holiness is based on who Christ is (our holiness – 1 Cor 1:30) and what He has done (sanctified you – Heb 2:11, Rom 11:16)
.
Old covenant holiness emphasizes sacrifices you are expected to make; new covenant holiness emphasizes the perfectly perfect sacrifice of the Lamb, by which you were “perfected forever” (Heb 10:14).
Old covenant holiness is sold as a process of increasing sanctification – something “we grow into” as we become more like Christ; new covenant holiness is presented as a done deal (Heb 10:10).
Old covenant holiness comes with a big stick – “the Lord will condemn you if you don’t deliver”; new covenant holiness has exhortations but no sticks because there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1).
Ok...how do we walk out this holiness stuff then?
To be holy is to partake of His wholeness; it is to stop acting broken (because in Him we are not broken) and to allow Him to express His whole and beautiful life through us.
The challenge is that being holy is a new experience for us. As sinners, holiness was totally alien to us. That old lifestyle was characterized by brokenness and hurt. Now that we are in Him we have to learn to walk in our new and God-given identity.
The wrong way to approach this is to think of yourself as a flawed sinner trying to become holy. That’s not who you are and that’s not how it works. Instead, see yourself as a toddler learning to walk. Just as you wouldn’t spank an infant if they stumbled and fell, neither will your heavenly Father spank you. He doesn’t condemn you when you fall; He encourages you to get up and walk!
He has given you everything you need for life and godliness. In Christ you lack nothing. You just need to work out who you already are and what He has already given you. This is the adventure of holy living.
Practical holiness is a term to beware of as it often comes hiding a fishhook. Much of it is pure mixture, as the following soundbites illustrate:
- “Following Christ is a lifestyle.” (True.) “We’ve got to keep His commands to be His disciples.” (Nope – that’s backwards. That’s putting the fruit before the tree.)
- “Find out what pleases the Lord.” (Okay!) “Keeping His instructions pleases Him.” (No it does not – that’s faithless, law-based living that nullifies grace and inflames sin – read Romans 7. Jesus pleases the Lord. Trust Him.)
- “If you sow to the flesh you will reap destruction.” (Yep). “So we have to be earnest in getting people to change their behavior.” (But that’s sowing to the flesh! You’re setting them up for failure.)
Holiness preaching that emphasizes what you must do is carnal Christianity. Make no mistake, it comes straight out of the old covenant. Heed this sort of teaching and you will exalt the flesh at the expense of grace. And it won’t make you holy.
There are at least four ways to determine whether the holiness message you’re listening to reflects the condemning covenant of the law or the new and liberating covenant of grace:
Old covenant holiness is based on who you are (a bit of a reprobate) and is sold as a list of things you must do; new covenant holiness is based on who Christ is (our holiness – 1 Cor 1:30) and what He has done (sanctified you – Heb 2:11, Rom 11:16)
.
Old covenant holiness emphasizes sacrifices you are expected to make; new covenant holiness emphasizes the perfectly perfect sacrifice of the Lamb, by which you were “perfected forever” (Heb 10:14).
Old covenant holiness is sold as a process of increasing sanctification – something “we grow into” as we become more like Christ; new covenant holiness is presented as a done deal (Heb 10:10).
Old covenant holiness comes with a big stick – “the Lord will condemn you if you don’t deliver”; new covenant holiness has exhortations but no sticks because there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1).
Ok...how do we walk out this holiness stuff then?
To be holy is to partake of His wholeness; it is to stop acting broken (because in Him we are not broken) and to allow Him to express His whole and beautiful life through us.
The challenge is that being holy is a new experience for us. As sinners, holiness was totally alien to us. That old lifestyle was characterized by brokenness and hurt. Now that we are in Him we have to learn to walk in our new and God-given identity.
The wrong way to approach this is to think of yourself as a flawed sinner trying to become holy. That’s not who you are and that’s not how it works. Instead, see yourself as a toddler learning to walk. Just as you wouldn’t spank an infant if they stumbled and fell, neither will your heavenly Father spank you. He doesn’t condemn you when you fall; He encourages you to get up and walk!
He has given you everything you need for life and godliness. In Christ you lack nothing. You just need to work out who you already are and what He has already given you. This is the adventure of holy living.
This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....not only not doing the "biggie sins" also things like..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...the religious mindset says no doing "what I don't do.."..etc
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....not only not doing the "biggie sins" also things like..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...the religious mindset says no doing "what I don't do.."..etc
Jesus also said to tear out your eye if it causes you to sin. And to cut off your hand it it also causes you to sin. How many eyeless, handless Christians do you notice running around?
You need to read the whole chapter to put it into it's correct context. Jesus was using examples of people who lived righteously on the outside, but were, in fact, unsaved. That's why He kept saying they "already" have their reward here on earth, because they certainly didn't have any in heaven.
Again, He was showing that those who have an unforgiving spirit were not actually saved. Which is why He said if you don't forgive, you are not forgiven, because you are not saved.
Context is everything.
You need to read the whole chapter to put it into it's correct context. Jesus was using examples of people who lived righteously on the outside, but were, in fact, unsaved. That's why He kept saying they "already" have their reward here on earth, because they certainly didn't have any in heaven.
Again, He was showing that those who have an unforgiving spirit were not actually saved. Which is why He said if you don't forgive, you are not forgiven, because you are not saved.
Context is everything.
True living faith does. Fake, dead faith imagines that GOD does everything.
Therefore, only those who do the will of GOD enter into life. And what is the will of GOD? To believe into his son and love others as we love ourselves. In this case love is not an emotion, but the act of our will to do things that result in our not hurting our neighbor.
Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. As a result, you will recognize them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ And then I will say to them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:19-23
Therefore, only those who do the will of GOD enter into life. And what is the will of GOD? To believe into his son and love others as we love ourselves. In this case love is not an emotion, but the act of our will to do things that result in our not hurting our neighbor.
Again, you sidestepped the question. Context is everything is not an answer. Nor is saying that Christians who have an unforgiving spirit were never Christians in the first place. That's simply trying to conform reality to doctrine.
It's hard to imagine that people seriously believe that a Christian can't be unforgiving, yet can do every other kind of sin.
It's hard to imagine that people seriously believe that a Christian can't be unforgiving, yet can do every other kind of sin.
If all sins were forgiven, why have we been instructed to ask GOD to forgive our sins when we pray?
And it happened that while he was in a certain place praying, when he stopped a certain one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John also taught his disciples.” And he said to them, “When you pray, say, “Father, may your name be treated as holy. May your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation.” Luke 11:1-4
And it happened that while he was in a certain place praying, when he stopped a certain one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John also taught his disciples.” And he said to them, “When you pray, say, “Father, may your name be treated as holy. May your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation.” Luke 11:1-4
Notice that in Matt 7:19-23..Jesus said "I never knew you "...these people were not believers.....everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....
John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world
Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.
Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. we walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world
Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.
Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. we walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
You took one line about context and used that to prove that I didn't answer you?
Not surprising, when you take scripture out of context as well.
Here is the answer, yet again, and not "side-stepped":
Jesus was using examples of people who lived righteously on the outside, but were, in fact, unsaved. That's why He kept saying they "already" have their reward here on earth, because they certainly didn't have any in heaven.
Again, He was showing that those who have an unforgiving spirit were not actually saved. Which is why He said if you don't forgive, you are not forgiven, because you are not saved.
If you want to take what you believe and apply it the real world, let me ask you - have you ever lusted?
Then why haven't you torn out your eye as Jesus commanded?
Have you ever stolen anything?
Then why haven't you cut off your hand, as He also commanded?
YOU are the one who picks-and-chooses from scripture what you want to believe, and ignore everything else that contradicts you.
Do you think that if a believer doesn't forgive someone that his sins are unforgiven? Jesus' blood has atoned for ALL our sin. We will all arrive in His presence with some sin stain or poor attitude on us, that we have carried, and Jesus will have something to say and to show us about our attitude of unforgiveness and we will lose rewards based on that...but to lose our righteous standing based on one our old man poking out somewhere? Well, that runs contrary to the grace of God. We are utterly forgiven and all our sins are eradicated. It is for you to put this issue to bed.
We will all be teckoned with, but as blood-boughtchildren of God, we will mot be lost.
We will all be teckoned with, but as blood-boughtchildren of God, we will mot be lost.