Vote on Obsession with confession(1st John 1:9,sin confession)

[PeterJens]

The problem with hyper-grace is the context they have created. Two covenants, and two ways of behaviour. They then polarise scripture into the one of the two camps, and say one part of a sentence is addressing one group and the next part of the sentence the other group. In real terms this is brainwashing.

A sentence has to be taken as a simple structure with obvious meaning, dealing with the audience and the subject at hand.
The most obvious is often what the author is addressing and any complex structure is often only created to suit the ideas of the reader.

One over-riding biblical concept is God put everything in the bible for a reason, for us today. Nothing can be ignored, but it can be put into context. If your theology cannot handle this, it is your theology that has failed not the Lord.

It is true that Jesus saw the disciples as the beginning of the Kingdom of God on earth, with a greater degree of spiritual power and significance than had been present before. Unfortunately this was in power over sin through love from the heart rather than super-spiritual miracle zapping.

What we have today is people claiming great power and spiritual authority while denying righteousness and love from the heart. This was demonstrated to me plainly when one contributor made fun of me suggesting love was the power of walking in the Lord. That is how far this group have gone from the gospel and are full of condemnation against normal followers of Jesus and their walk.

 

[FreeNChrist]

At the request of Grace777x70.....



"You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose. The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God. “Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."



Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

One simple observation. A long list of activities are given which is most of church life, as works of the flesh.
When it comes to works of the spirit, only the intention is mentioned.

The sub-text is an assault on activity in the church. In reality everything you do can be done because of the Spirits leading or other motives, it does not make the activities themselves wrong.

The slander here is subtle. No effort is made to encourage people to engage with other christians in ministry just list them all as flesh endeavours. The Lord speaks to encourage His people to good works wherever they can and not condemn them.

It is strange a person claiming such spiritual authority is condemning the very lifeblood of the body.
I know many spiritually blessed people who have engaged in these ministries by Gods calling, so it greives me that a christian would regard this work as something wrong.

For me it suggests the spirit behind these ideas is not of the Lord.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"The flesh, everything that you do apart from Him "profiteth nothing" (John 6:63), and there is always the awful possibility, if you do not discover this principle, that you may spend a lifetime in the service of Jesus Christ doing nothing!" - Maj. Thomas

 

[Grace777x70]

Once more for the "Gipper"....doing righteous deeds and righteousness explained...

Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

Doing righteous deeds because Christ has made us righteous is what 1 John chapter 3 is talking about. This shows the difference between the devil and those that belong to Christ. John was describing a believer and an unbeliever.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness comes to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now! This "righteousness " will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.
Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells..

 

[KennethC]

That's what your religion believes.....

Even in 1 Corth 5:1-6 the man having his father's wife was "delivered over to satan for the destruction od his flesh ..but his spirit was saved.."

You interpret scripture in light of your beliefs...not good...

1 Corinthians 5:1-6 is not talking about physical death either, it is talking about handing them over to the sinful world.

If they refuse to give up their ways let them go and fall, don't allow them to stay and corrupt others....


God does not reprove/rebuke (chastise) for destruction, He does it for correction and restoration always !!!

If the person/s go to destruction it is because of their own choice.....

You also take a scripture that is conditional and make it an absolute by saying......."but his spirit was saved."


The actual second part of that verse says:

"that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

May be not will be......................

 

[BenFTW]

It's not an issue of being emotionally healed, but being spiritually healed. If a person sins after coming to the faith, there is a spiritual problem that needs healing. There is no strength in a past forgiveness to make that happen.

But there is power (strength) in the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse sin once and for all! His sacrifice is sufficient. His blood cleanses you from all unrighteousness. His forgiveness is not past because Jesus is eternal, and our forgiveness is a present reality found in Christ our High Priest who shed His blood for the remission of our sins.

 

[Euphemia]

The actual second part of that verse says:

"that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

May be not will be......................

Yes, the may is referring to the hope that the person having been disciplined in such a way will be saved. That is the purpose of such a discipline.


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[Grace777x70]

"may" is an English way of talking....in can also be called "in order that"..or "so that "....like...go home so that you "may" find your present under the tree...

again your religion is making you "read " into the scripture..

Now, if we listened to your "may" we are going to have to question eternal life in Christ..

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

There are tons of these in the bible....

John 17:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 Corinthians 5:1-6 is not talking about physical death either, it is talking about handing them over to the sinful world.

If they refuse to give up their ways let them go and fall, don't allow them to stay and corrupt others....


God does not reprove/rebuke (chastise) for destruction, He does it for correction and restoration always !!!

If the person/s go to destruction it is because of their own choice.....

You also take a scripture that is conditional and make it an absolute by saying......."but his spirit was saved."


The actual second part of that verse says:

"that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

May be not will be......................

 

[PeterJens]

As each door slowly closes, hyper-grace becomes more and more weird.

Please follow hyper grace and receive a new eternal heart. Not a heart like the one of your flesh but a new core to your being. You do not not have to change, you have been changed into a new perfect being, and the more you walk in this new being the more perfect you will be. No knowledge or effort required.

The problem is Jesus had to be taught about the Father and learn. So God in flesh did not come pre-set with all the understanding and knowledge. Now if that is what we are as humans, and God in human form had to learn, then so do we.

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
John 15:15

Not looking good for your theology now

 

[Euphemia]

As each door slowly closes, hyper-grace becomes more and more weird.

Please follow hyper grace and receive a new eternal heart. Not a heart like the one of your flesh but a new core to your being. You do not not have to change, you have been changed into a new perfect being, and the more you walk in this new being the more perfect you will be. No knowledge or effort required.

The problem is Jesus had to be taught about the Father and learn. So God in flesh did not come pre-set with all the understanding and knowledge. Now if that is what we are as humans, and God in human form had to learn, then so do we.

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
John 15:15

Not looking good for your theology now

That is only your opinion, and it is based on your own misunderstanding.

Of course we need to learn! Why else would Jesus Christ have established the local church and commanded us not to abandon the assembly? Why else does Holy Spirit gift us and provide us with leaders and teachers, etc? His provision of these things for His Body doesn't change the fact that His grace has made us spiritually alive and pure in His sight from the very beginning of our exercising the faith to believe for salvation.


.

 

[Euphemia]

"may" is an English way of talking....in can also be called "in order that"..or "so that "....like...go home so that you "may" find your present under the tree...

again your religion is making you "read " into the scripture..

Now, if we listened to your "may" we are going to have to question eternal life in Christ..

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

There are tons of these in the bible....

John 17:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Amen! Maybe someone should start a thread on HYPER-LITERALISM!


.

 

[PeterJens]

That is only your opinion, and it is based on your own misunderstanding.

Of course we need to learn! Why else would Jesus Christ have established the local church and commanded us not to abandon the assembly? Why else does Holy Spirit gift us and provide us with leaders and teachers, etc? His provision of these things for His Body doesn't change the fact that His grace has made us spiritually alive and pure in His sight from the very beginning of our exercising the faith to believe for salvation.

That is only your opinion, and it is based on your own misunderstanding.

So many times grace7x77 says we get a new heart, that is perfect, pure and holy at conversion.

Now this model has a fundamental weakness. You cannot get half a heart, or a transitional state, or even transformation. It is an all or nothing event.

Secondly if you have a new heart and can never loose salvation that is it into eternity.

Now this model does not fit christian experience or the ebb and flow of faith. When a person comes to faith but goes off the rails, you have to create a version of partial conversion or deception or something else, because if your new heart dies, you loose the eternal salvation also.

So though it is all so appealing and tries to tie up the issue of sinful behaviour by saved people, but it does not work.
And if the model does not work, neither does the idea about legalism or failure of Israel.

But can you guys face the reality you are wrong, deceived. Where will you go? Probably like a lot of people I know who walked in charismatics groups but lost the plot and stay half in and half out but totally morally flawed.

 

[PeterJens]

I got to laugh. At one point you do not need to be transformed just walk in what you already are, and the next you need to learn and be transformed. But for what? You already are perfect, but actually not, because following Jesus is about being sinners saved by grace but called saints. So nothing changes because it doesn't need to.

This is such a pile of gibberish. Either you sign up to walking righteously or it does not matter and you are a libertarian. Else you are a hypocrite, and Jesus condemns them.

 

[Euphemia]

We are positionally righteous before God by our faith in Jesus Christ, and because our sins are all punished on Him. Our spirits are born again, pure and cannot sin. Yet our souls and bodies still need to be trained in righteousness.

Get into the word, and stop the mocking laughter. God isn't pleased with that. Study and learn that we are tripartite beings...body, soul and spirit, and learn about how each part of who we consist of functions, interacts and reacts.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Hebrews 12:21-24
King James Version(KJV)

21.)And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

22.)But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23.)To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24.)And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
+++
We are In bodies that at the present time have not been made perfect yet.
+++
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version(KJV)

1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[PeterJens]

We are positionally righteous before God by our faith in Jesus Christ, and because our sins are all punished on Him. Our spirits are born again, pure and cannot sin. Yet our souls and bodies still need to be trained in righteousness.

Get into the word, and stop the mocking laughter. God isn't pleased with that. Study and learn that we are tripartite beings...body, soul and spirit, and learn about how each part of who we consist of functions, interacts and reacts.

Now your theory fails. Immediately when you said our spirits are perfect, pure and cannot sin.

Please tell me where on earth or in heaven you got this idea? Our spirits are born again?
No we as whole beings spirit and soul start again.

Jesus said we can only know He is the messiah by revelation of God. Of all the facts on earth to understand this is the beginning of spiritual knowledge.

As children we build our emotional and spiritual understanding of life and how to live and react. It is what makes us who we are, years of experiences and reactions.

Jesus is saying this now starts again, from scratch. We need to relearn how to relate, understand, react, set as our goals, what we aspire to, what we respect and what we despise. It is a work of choice and obedience.

That is what it means to be born again, to enter into the kingdom because we are redeemed sinners, remade by the work of the Holy Spirit and obedience in our hearts.

What you have is super-spiritual gibberish with no foundation. I am just as human as the non-christian but made in Gods light and direction, a man perfected by Christ.

The problem with your idea is it makes a mockery of what sin is and the failure of being human. Mans problem is he does not know God and spends his life building on the foundation of selfish ambition and goals that lead to glory in this world.

Jesus says we need to build on the foundation of a relationship with the Father and obedience to His word. To aid in this growth we are given the Holy Spirit to help and guide us along the way.

You have created a mystical gnostic concept of salvation which is not part of christianity and never has been.

 

[Grace777x70]

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The new creation in Christ cannot sin...not 1 time nor 1,000 times. We have a new inner man of the heart. The old man is dead and behold all things are new now within our heart.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

We have the flesh and we have the spirit in which we can set our mind on while on this earth.

Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

has been created = Aorist tense passive voice

Passive voice = something is acted upon you - you do not do it.

Our new man has been created in righteousness and holiness. This is where the Father, Jesus and here on this earth the Holy Spirit reside. we are in union together. This is why the new creation cannot sin because it has the very nature of God in it.

 

[Grace777x70]

The believers new heart in Christ created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. ( this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and if we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

 

[PeterJens]

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
8

Your proposition is simple. You read John as saying if we are born of God we cannot sin.
So when a believer sins, it is not him sinning but the flesh.

John is describing the tension between sinful behaviour and the seed of Gods word in the believers heart.
The believer cannot continue to sin because he will be convicted and condemned, his conscience will show him his errors and his heart will encourage him to walk in righteousness.

Now as christians we testify to this reality, day after day, which causes us to change.

What you have done is polarise the ideas and make it into a mystical rebirth and carnality. Worse still you have said the whole process of conviction is wrong and evil and should be rejected.

A new self is the self in Jesus, founded on His love and grace, not a mystical spirit that has come down from heaven, which is now pure and holy.

The problem is you can read in terms to "new" to mean something from outside, another spirit (take spirit as a thing) or your spirit that has been made new, cleansed, refeshed.

Jesus's words and the apostles assume you cannot become someone else, you are you, you are just redeemed, refeshed, made new.

You want to say, rather than the car outside my house being cleaned, repainted, upgraded, I have been given a new car.
That is your invention.

The basic problem is to get a new car has to occur at a new car event. It is not possible to be washed or cleansed over time, or to have layers of spiritual experiences or anything like the experiences people have or the bible teaches.

So 100% you are wrong.

Maybe you have confused is the baptism of the Holy Spirit with a new heart. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the empowering of the christian, the anointing of a change that has already taken place.