Did God "experience" death on the cross?

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Jun 23, 2015
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#1
To say that God experienced death is to say he died . How can you experience death without dying? Dont allow people to come in and mince words. It is the work of the enemy and it is heresy!


Those who are saved and reborn in Christ believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate. We also believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross. If we say that God died on the cross, and if by that we mean that the divine nature perished, we have stepped over the edge into serious heresy. In fact, two such heresies related to this problem arose in the early centuries of the church: theopassianism and patripassianism. The first of these, theopassianism, teaches that God Himself suffered death on the cross. Patripassianism indicates that the Father suffered vicariously through the suffering of His Son. Both of these heresies were roundly rejected by the church for the very reason that they categorically deny the very character and nature of God, including His immutability. There is no change in the substantive nature or character of God at any time.

God not only created the universe, He sustains it by the very power of His being. As Paul said, “In Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). If the being of God ceased for one second, the universe would disappear. It would pass out of existence, because nothing can exist apart from the sustaining power of God. If God dies, everything dies with Him. Obviously, then, God could not have perished on the cross.


Some say, “It was the second person of the Trinity Who died.” That would be a mutation within the very being of God, because when we look at the Trinity we say that the three are one in essence, and that though there are personal distinctions among the persons of the Godhead, those distinctions are not essential in the sense that they are differences in being. Death is something that would involve a change in one’s being.


We should shrink in horror from the idea that God actually died on the cross. The atonement was made by the human nature of Christ. Somehow people tend to think that this lessens the dignity or the value of the substitutionary act, as if we were somehow implicitly denying the deity of Christ. God forbid. It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.

Rc Sproul
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#2
When you die your soul leaves your body. But your soul just transfers to a different place. Yes, Jesus did die and go to paradise as he told the thief on the cross, TODAY you will be with Me in Paradise. Then in three days Jesus returned to His body and resurrected Himself from the dead. He has the power to lay down His life and to pick it back up again.

Note: He did not die from the cross as a result, He stated His business was finished and then He purposely left His body.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#3
Note: He did not die from the cross as a result, He stated His business was finished and then He purposely left His body.
This is your opinion. Christ was in a human body that could die. He laid down his life for us but his body did die...

We should not be confused with the fact that death has no hold on Him. Whenever the people told Yeshua somebody died He always said they were sleeping. Why? Because death had no hold on Him and He is the King.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,650
13,844
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#4
the JW say that Michael the angel swapped places with Christ on the cross, so that it was Michael who died, and not Jesus.
i suppose they can't stomach the fact of what He did for us, so that we could live.

but Christ says:


I am the Living One;
I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever!
And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

(Revelation 1:18)

so whether we can fathom it or not, the fact remains - Jesus Christ was, for a time, dead, and He is now risen!
not being able to comprehend something is never evidence that it is not so
:)
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#5
This is your opinion. Christ was in a human body that could die. He laid down his life for us but his body did die...

We should not be confused with the fact that death has no hold on Him. Whenever the people told Yeshua somebody died He always said they were sleeping. Why? Because death had no hold on Him and He is the King.
I agree that His body died. What I was saying is that He didn't die because He was in torture, He died because He purposely left His body.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,227
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#6
I agree that His body died. What I was saying is that He didn't die because He was in torture, He died because He purposely left His body.
No Kaycie, he died because his human body could not take it anymore. If you have a look at what happens to the body when crucified you will understand that His body could take no more punishment and He died. All of your organs shut down and you can't breath anymore. Your body goes in cardiac arrest and just shut down :(

It was a miracle that Jesus could walk after they chastised him because they literally teared the flesh from His body and He was unrecognisable to his own mother.

The death of Yeshua was no joke and He did lay down His life willingly for you and me. He died because they tortured Him to death.
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#7
To say that God experienced death is to say he died . How can you experience death without dying? Dont allow people to come in and mince words. It is the work of the enemy and it is heresy!


Those who are saved and reborn in Christ believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate. We also believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross. If we say that God died on the cross, and if by that we mean that the divine nature perished, we have stepped over the edge into serious heresy. In fact, two such heresies related to this problem arose in the early centuries of the church: theopassianism and patripassianism. The first of these, theopassianism, teaches that God Himself suffered death on the cross. Patripassianism indicates that the Father suffered vicariously through the suffering of His Son. Both of these heresies were roundly rejected by the church for the very reason that they categorically deny the very character and nature of God, including His immutability. There is no change in the substantive nature or character of God at any time.

God not only created the universe, He sustains it by the very power of His being. As Paul said, “In Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). If the being of God ceased for one second, the universe would disappear. It would pass out of existence, because nothing can exist apart from the sustaining power of God. If God dies, everything dies with Him. Obviously, then, God could not have perished on the cross.


Some say, “It was the second person of the Trinity Who died.” That would be a mutation within the very being of God, because when we look at the Trinity we say that the three are one in essence, and that though there are personal distinctions among the persons of the Godhead, those distinctions are not essential in the sense that they are differences in being. Death is something that would involve a change in one’s being.


We should shrink in horror from the idea that God actually died on the cross. The atonement was made by the human nature of Christ. Somehow people tend to think that this lessens the dignity or the value of the substitutionary act, as if we were somehow implicitly denying the deity of Christ. God forbid. It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.

Rc Sproul
You are confusing yourself. Jesus was made flesh and dwelt among us as a man, as we are (no sexism meant), He paid the ultimate sacrifice for us and spent three days in the grave. He Died so we don't have to. He was separated from life which is death. The whole of the new covenant rest on this, without it there is no covenant.
All of the big words used to try and show you have an intellect to understand more than anyone else is just that, big words. Jesus said 'unless you come as a child'
Mark 10:15
Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”
This does mean that we accept what the father has done for us, if we cant understand how He does it dose that mean he has not done it?
We need to be humble before our God and accept what He is doing in our lives and the lives of those around us. we need to hold the truths as given to us in scripture and confirmed by the Holy Spirit that lives within us. When we accept his sacrifice as an offering for our sin "He shall see His seed"
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#8
No man took his life he played it down, "father into your hands I place my spirit" he ended it and picked it up again.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,268
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#9
The law is the perfect standard of righteousness and required death for breaking It.JESUS had mercy on those under the law and took our place.

On the cross he died In the body and satisfied the demand of the law,but In the spirit he did not die In the way man looks at death In other words,he left his body.After three days he came back into his body,proving that everything he said Is true.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#10
To say that God experienced death is to say he died . How can you experience death without dying? Dont allow people to come in and mince words. It is the work of the enemy and it is heresy!


Those who are saved and reborn in Christ believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate. We also believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross. If we say that God died on the cross, and if by that we mean that the divine nature perished, we have stepped over the edge into serious heresy. In fact, two such heresies related to this problem arose in the early centuries of the church: theopassianism and patripassianism. The first of these, theopassianism, teaches that God Himself suffered death on the cross. Patripassianism indicates that the Father suffered vicariously through the suffering of His Son. Both of these heresies were roundly rejected by the church for the very reason that they categorically deny the very character and nature of God, including His immutability. There is no change in the substantive nature or character of God at any time.

God not only created the universe, He sustains it by the very power of His being. As Paul said, “In Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). If the being of God ceased for one second, the universe would disappear. It would pass out of existence, because nothing can exist apart from the sustaining power of God. If God dies, everything dies with Him. Obviously, then, God could not have perished on the cross.


Some say, “It was the second person of the Trinity Who died.” That would be a mutation within the very being of God, because when we look at the Trinity we say that the three are one in essence, and that though there are personal distinctions among the persons of the Godhead, those distinctions are not essential in the sense that they are differences in being. Death is something that would involve a change in one’s being.


We should shrink in horror from the idea that God actually died on the cross. The atonement was made by the human nature of Christ. Somehow people tend to think that this lessens the dignity or the value of the substitutionary act, as if we were somehow implicitly denying the deity of Christ. God forbid. It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.

Rc Sproul
For a while, I thought you wrote this...then I saw RC Sproul's name :)

Good article.
 
D

didymos

Guest
#11
I agree that His body died. What I was saying is that He didn't die because He was in torture, He died because He purposely left His body.


But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering. (Heb 2:9-10)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
64,415
32,742
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#12
When you die your soul leaves your body.
Your soul includes your body. Physical elements (body) plus animating breath of God equals soul.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,539
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#13
Interesting question to ponder. It is a fact that Jesus never sinned. Only by sin comes death. This why it is important to notice that Jesus by His determinate will caused His Spirit to leave His body. When He resurrected it was a bodily resurrection but His body was changed into a glorified body that could not know corruption.

Jesus took upon Himself our sin and removed that sin to await eternal condemnation in the lake of fire. Jesus accomplished atonement, justification and prepared eternal glorification for us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
169
0
#16
To say that God experienced death is to say he died .
Jesus died. His body stopped functioning, blood stopped being pumped, his brain stopped having an electical charge, he was not conscious in a physical sense.

Jesus or the Father never declared what happened between Jesus's death and resurrection.
He appeared to Mary on the sunday morning.

What I find curious is why there are so many questions around this. We all die, people die every day. We do not know where they go, if they just sleep or are conscious somewhere else. Hades is one place, or a place of waiting.
If you take lazerus as an example, being with Jesus. One speaker suggested you are a spirit who can talk pray and interceed on behalf of the living, but this is pure conjecture and projection.

I just trust Jesus has it sorted, and that is good enough for me.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#18
Jesus died. His body stopped functioning, blood stopped being pumped, his brain stopped having an electical charge, he was not conscious in a physical sense.

Jesus or the Father never declared what happened between Jesus's death and resurrection.
He appeared to Mary on the sunday morning.

What I find curious is why there are so many questions around this. We all die, people die every day. We do not know where they go, if they just sleep or are conscious somewhere else. Hades is one place, or a place of waiting.
If you take lazerus as an example, being with Jesus. One speaker suggested you are a spirit who can talk pray and interceed on behalf of the living, but this is pure conjecture and projection.

I just trust Jesus has it sorted, and that is good enough for me.

People have questions because Jesus was not only a man.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#19
No Kaycie, he died because his human body could not take it anymore. If you have a look at what happens to the body when crucified you will understand that His body could take no more punishment and He died. All of your organs shut down and you can't breath anymore. Your body goes in cardiac arrest and just shut down :(

It was a miracle that Jesus could walk after they chastised him because they literally teared the flesh from His body and He was unrecognisable to his own mother.

The death of Yeshua was no joke and He did lay down His life willingly for you and me. He died because they tortured Him to death.
No, this is why they wanted to break His legs but pierced His side instead- because they couldn't believe He was dead already. He does not lie- He said He has the power to lay down His life (die all on His own) and to pick His life back up again (resurrect Himself all on His own). The bible says no one can take His life from Him. (John 10:18).
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#20
Jesus is the second person of the eternal Godhead.
Not His temporary human body, which was simply a "veil."
No, He wasn't just God in an earthsuit. And I'd still like an answer from HeRose.