What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

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Grace777x70 said:
I told you that it had nothing to do with you....just accept it and move on....

For example I hear all the time that God makes you sick to teach you things....there are lot's of foolish lies like this in this world

Ok....if it will make you happy...I will try to remember to tell you when I see when God is being accused wrongly happening before my eyes again......I will be the first to alert you of it....:)


Your beefs with other people is none of my business .....
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I never said it had to do with me so here you go deflecting again.....................

I asked you a simple question on who is doing the condemning and accusing on here ???

You are deflecting instead of answering !!!

I know there are a lot of lies and bad doctrines in the world, and the reason I brought up the two people I have on ignore is because you brought up the false accusations and condemning of others.

I wanted to see if they would be honest with you and admit they constantly passed false accusations on me and others, and even condemned me and others, or if they would continue to lie...........

If we go and throw things out there we need to be specific and point out who is exactly doing what instead of just throwing out blanket statements.


I do not believe in earning salvation, works to earn salvation, works salvationist, or however else you OSASers or Hyper-grace people want to constantly throw around that means the same in your minds.


Works we do are "Proof" of one who is saved, this is clearly shown in scripture.............

No fruit = no Holy Spirit = no salvation through Jesus Christ
 
I already answered your question in previous posts....go back and read them again if you need to...you don't have to like my answer but that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes...just accept it....

Now..your "real" problem has been exposed..it's those OSAers and/or hyper-gracers..and their beliefs that conflict with your beliefs are what the "real issue" is here... that is what is making you mad...I have zero interest in discussing your religion with you on this topic....you will just have to live with it Kenneth... ..it's life....it's all good..

Here is a good way to live concerning things of the Lord..

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
he has us on ignore because he claims we do what he does all the time.

He tells people they believe in things they don't. then gets man when we infor him he does nnot know what we believe.

Yet when we say he is earning his salvation, (even though we have proven over ad over he does believe that very thing) he gets mad..

It is his pride..

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Yeah, he cut 'n ran. Poor Kenny. "The stress was just too much for him. He's no daisy, no daisy at all."
 
KennethC said:
Works we do are "Proof" of one who is saved, this is clearly shown in scripture.............

No fruit = no Holy Spirit = no salvation through Jesus Christ
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The thief on the cross did not find this. He was saved without works.

Works are not PROOF we are saved. They are possible evidence of it. A man may be wholly righteous in man's eyes and rejected by God. and wholly unrighteous but acceptable to God.

It is however true that no fruit usually means no Holy Spirit means no salvation through Jesus Christ in most cases because they are the fruit of salvation. They are a consequence of salvation, one of its results.
 
Why is it that fruit inspectors never inspect their own fruit? Hmmmmm.
 
valiant said:
The thief on the cross did not find this. He was saved without works.

Works are not PROOF we are saved. They are possible evidence of it. A man may be wholly righteous in man's eyes and rejected by God. and wholly unrighteous but acceptable to God.

It is however true that no fruit usually means no Holy Spirit means no salvation through Jesus Christ in most cases because they are the fruit of salvation. They are a consequence of salvation, one of its results.
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The old thief on the cross faulty debate..........

This has been covered multiple times as this is a example of God's mercy for a person who comes to Him on their death bed. A death bed confession..........

It does not apply to one who has come to Christ and then lived for 5, 10, 20, 30, or so more years after !!!

We need to stop using certain examples that do not apply to other situations........
 
Grace777x70 said:
I already answered your question in previous posts....go back and read them again if you need to...you don't have to like my answer but that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes...just accept it....

Now..your "real" problem has been exposed..it's those OSAers and/or hyper-gracers..and their beliefs that conflict with your beliefs are what the "real issue" is here... that is what is making you mad...I have zero interest in discussing your religion with you on this topic....you will just have to live with it Kenneth... ..it's life....it's all good..

Here is a good way to live concerning things of the Lord..

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
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I have read your posts and no you did not answer the questions in a previous post, which this is a common deflecting tactic as well.

I am not mad at all so please again stop passing false accusations my way..........

By the way I have done a research study on the history of the Church, and the doctrines of eternal security, OSAS, and hyper-grace were not taught before the 4th century by the early church. Hyper-grace is the newest one of the 3 as it originated out of OSAS.

You see how it is only the false teachings that have to constantly change their names to hide the error's with in them, as even those within those doctrines teach different things and argue among one another.

The scripture you give from Romans 14:22 is speaking on making sure we are operating properly in the faith, and do not condemn ourselves by doing things or allowing/approving things that are clearly stated as being wrong.

This is another place of many that tells us to examine ourselves to make sure we are in the faith of Jesus Christ, meaning do our actions and speech align with what the Lord said.
 
FreeNChrist said:
Why is it that fruit inspectors never inspect their own fruit? Hmmmmm.
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You do not have to inspect your fruit, when you do not think your fruit is rotten to the core.. or you do not think your bowel movements stink..
 
This is the last time I am going to answer you..if you don't like it..please..I beg of you..put me on "ignore too"..

I will put the progression in for you.

post 1 = original poster

I am so glad I came out of it, Although I still struggle with it some. Satan uses it against me, and it is not easy to resist.

post 2 ( by answer to them )

satan is called the "accuser".....he loves to 'accuse" you of everything......it's funny how Christians will call God the "accuser" .....religious traditions are so stupid!

post 3 = their answer to me

Oh I know it. Thats why I have to constantly go through ephesians and collossians (the "in Christ" books) to remind myself where I stand in christ, otherwise, satan gets in there, and all hell breaks lose and I lose my ability to be a light to the world.

post 4 = my response back to them

Amen!..we should be "living " in those books....so many want to "live" from the OT and the Old Covenant.

We need to keep our minds on things above....where we are seated with Christ..Col 3:14


post 5 = this is you ( KennethC ) coming in on the discussion

Satan is called the accuser.................
Nobody is calling God the accuser, as rebuking and reproving is not accusing...........etc

post 6 = my post about how scriptures talk about Isaiah and condemning ..this had nothing to do with you or anyone else..it is satan that accuses us....see my post #161 to read the scripture

Anything that 'condemns" you is not from God as a Christian...satan 'accuses " us...Isaiah 54 is after Christ died for us in Isaiah 53

post 7 = you starting your who is condemning who thing..

Who is condemning who ???

post 8 = you asking who is condemning who again

You brought up condemning and I asked who is condemning who ???

post 9 = me..telling you what I was talking about

This had nothing to do with you....don't feel so guilty..

A couple of us where talking about how satan is "accusing; us in our walk..and it's not God..I believe it stated at post #146..which again had nothing to do with you...:)

This was my post to answer #146

satan is called the "accuser".....he loves to 'accuse" you of everything......it's funny how Christians will call God the "accuser" .....religious traditions are so stupid!

This below was the original post...
I am so glad I came out of it, Although I still struggle with it some. Satan uses it against me, and it is not easy to resist.

next post is you answering my above post

Again you are the one who brought up saying condemning, and brought up some calling God the accuser.........

Then this is my post to you again..

It's true Kenneth...religious people all the time say it's God "doing things" to you....accusing you ..against you..whatever term they want to use...don't take it so personal..if you do not do those things..then that is a good thing!

When someone posts things like ...."doing righteous deeds doesn't make you righteous"..I don't get all defensive ..I just agree with the truth of it....

..again don't take posts that have nothing to do with you so personal....everything is ok...it's all good....:cool:

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After that it's you telling me I am deflecting ..if these do not answer your questions....please put me on "ignore"...you are cantankerous to say the least...but I forgive you...:)
 
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So, there is mercy for one type of person but the other people need to "earn" their salvation..this is what is being said by ignoring the thief on the cross.

this bothers people that this thief "did nothing" nor "did he keep" his salvation.....this is anti the cross reality.

Ephesians 2:4-10 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


KennethC said:
The old thief on the cross faulty debate..........

This has been covered multiple times as this is a example of God's mercy for a person who comes to Him on their death bed. A death bed confession..........

It does not apply to one who has come to Christ and then lived for 5, 10, 20, 30, or so more years after !!!

We need to stop using certain examples that do not apply to other situations........
Click to expand...
 
bottom line seems to be that eternal security position is "it says that, but it really means this"

conditional security position is "it says that, and it means that!"
 
at least two of you on this thread are Liars or you don't really believe in unconditional eternal security!

i read on another thread were grace777x70 and eternally-grateful both defending suicide. saying if someone kills themselves they would still go to heaven. (i guess because they prayed as a child?????????) wow!

if you really believed that you wouldn't even take the time to respond to this wonderful posting that I'm doing. you mean to tell me that you could be walking on streets of gold, seeing Jesus face to face, in a place were there is no sin, no more crazy chat rooms, and YOUR STILL HERE?

point: you don't really believe what your barking about.:o
 
by the way, please don't try it. i promise you that you will be like the rich man in luke 16 who "opened up his eyes in hell"

I'm sure you are sincere, but you are sincerely wrong.
 
1 John 5:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

salvation is positional "in Christ" if you are not "in Christ" you don't have salvation


John 15:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

believers are attached to the vine as a branch and we draw from the vine. notice he said you must abide or remain in me (i didn't say that by the way Jesus did)

eternal life exists only in Christ ore the vine. it doesn't exist in a branch that is separated from the vine

please stop adding "what you think" to this scripture and read it in its context

I'm not trying to earn or work for my salvation because i believe what this scripture says that "I must abide in the vine"
 
ok

John 15:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

according to John as a branch I must remain In the vine. if I don't I'm cut off and cast into the fire.

Gr8grace said:
So............. point me to verse that says ," Gods gift of eternal life is revocable.."

New American Standard Bible
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
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point me to the verse that says you are saved unconditionally forever. that after salvation you can still smoke, cuss, fornicate and even commit suicide and your still heaven bound with the hammer down
 
Goodnewsman said:
point me to the verse that says you are saved unconditionally forever. that after salvation you can still smoke, cuss, fornicate and even commit suicide and your still heaven bound with the hammer down
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Ive noticed you say alot without bringing scripture to back up your view.Do you know your Bible?
 
Goodnewsman said:
ok

John 15:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

according to John as a branch I must remain In the vine. if I don't I'm cut off and cast into the fire.
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Not an answer. Show us a verse that says," Gods gift of eternal life is revocable.

Your verses of the believers WORKS and HUMAN GOOD being burned up is not making a gift that is irrevocable(eternal life).....revocable.
 
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