S
What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?
- Thread starter Grace777x70
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
did you not read v5 of my post? why would God warn them of something that he could not do? he gave them a warning to repent....please slow down and take the time to read it and stop reloading.
exactly sir. as long as your "in Christ"
John 15:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
eternal life is "in Christ"
1 John 5:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
now please contrast this verse with 2 John
2 John 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
eternal life is "in the son" but its up to you to abide or remain in the son. if you don't the branch is thrown in the fire.
John 15:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
eternal life is "in Christ"
1 John 5:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
now please contrast this verse with 2 John
2 John 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
eternal life is "in the son" but its up to you to abide or remain in the son. if you don't the branch is thrown in the fire.
Originally Posted by Goodnewsmanif all you can lose is crowns, spiritual maturity and rewards in heaven why did Jesus warn the sardis church to repent or get there names blotted out of the book of life?
Revelation 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
He did not WARN them of anything. YOU DID.
Jesus said He would NOT blot their names out of the book of life, NOT NOT NOT.
He NEVER said anywhere that He would. Read the Scripture.
DON'T read into them
Last edited:
Abiding in the Vine:
A promise, not a condition
Jesus told the disciples, you are in me (our imperfections are hidden in His perfection) and I am in you (we carry His sinless DNA). Jesus didn’t sin and He won’t ever sin. If you let Him live His life through you, then without any conscious effort on your part you’re going to start talking and acting just like sinless Jesus. This is a glorious promise for all who believe:
“Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” (1 Jn 3:9)
So what does it mean to abide in the vine? Here’s the answer we’ve all been waiting for…
“Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.” (1 Jn 4:15)
Have you confessed that Jesus is the Son of God? Then God abides in you and you in Him. You may wonder, But how did this happen? All I did was confess. Well you could not have believed and confessed Jesus as Lord unless the Holy Spirit had led you to do so (1 Cor 12:3). The work and the glory are all His. Rest in that!
The trouble is, you can’t rest because somewhere inside there is a little voice that’s asking, Can I abide today and not abide tomorrow? Can I be in the vine one moment and cut off the next? Why would Jesus tell his disciples to abide if there wasn’t any danger of not abiding?
The problem, as usual, is found between our ears. Most of us have grown up with a slave mentality that says our value is determined by what we do. This was certainly true of the disciples who had been born and bred under the law. They were conditioned to think in terms of their performance. This works mindset is also evident in some of our English translations:
“Remain in me, and I will remain in you.” (Jn 15:4, NIV)
Again, that sounds like a condition. It sounds like Jesus is saying, if your abiding performance is up to scratch, then I will reward you by abiding as well. But it is not a condition to make us sweat; it is a promise to make us rest. In John 15 Jesus goes to great lengths to counter the law-mentality of the disciples. He does this by hitting them with promise after promise:
“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.” (Jn 15:9)
How does the Father love Jesus? Ask yourself this question: How many miracles or works had Jesus done when the Father declared from heaven, “this is my beloved Son?” None! The Father loves Jesus unconditionally, without any reference to His performance or fruit. That means that Jesus loves us unconditionally! He wants us to rest in His unconditional love.
You’re free? Be free!
Just to recap – if you think abiding is something we must do, then understand that the evidence of abiding is zero sin. This is humanly impossible. The only logical response to the command “abide!” is to trust in Jesus and His performance and quit trying to impress Him with yours. The word “abide” connotes “rest” and “surrender,” not “struggle” and “try harder.”
Trust God, the abiding issue is all settled from His side. “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him.” But it may not be settled from your side. You may still be struggling with that old servant mentality.
Instead of rest there is insecurity. Instead of joy there is anxiety. Am I in? Can I be cut off? If this is you, let Jesus speak to your insecurity:
“I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (Jn 8:34-36)
The reality is, you are free indeed because Jesus has set you free. The reality is, you are abiding in the vine because you have confessed Him as Lord. But you may not be experiencing that reality.
You may feel like you’re not free or you’re not abiding. Although you are a son with a permanent place in the family, you may still think and act like the slave that you used to be. There’s only one solution: renew your mind! Stop living by feelings and start walking by faith. You are abiding in fact, so start abiding in practice.
When Jesus said, “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast out as a branch, withers, and is thrown into the fire,” He was not referring to fruitless Christians. (They are lifted up.) He was describing those who refuse to believe to that He is the Son of God. He was describing those who are looking for life outside of the true vine.
If you have confessed Jesus as your Lord, then walk in that the truth: You are free, God Himself abides in you, and as a son or daughter you have a permanent place in His family.
Thank you Jesus!
A promise, not a condition
Jesus told the disciples, you are in me (our imperfections are hidden in His perfection) and I am in you (we carry His sinless DNA). Jesus didn’t sin and He won’t ever sin. If you let Him live His life through you, then without any conscious effort on your part you’re going to start talking and acting just like sinless Jesus. This is a glorious promise for all who believe:
“Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” (1 Jn 3:9)
So what does it mean to abide in the vine? Here’s the answer we’ve all been waiting for…
“Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.” (1 Jn 4:15)
Have you confessed that Jesus is the Son of God? Then God abides in you and you in Him. You may wonder, But how did this happen? All I did was confess. Well you could not have believed and confessed Jesus as Lord unless the Holy Spirit had led you to do so (1 Cor 12:3). The work and the glory are all His. Rest in that!
The trouble is, you can’t rest because somewhere inside there is a little voice that’s asking, Can I abide today and not abide tomorrow? Can I be in the vine one moment and cut off the next? Why would Jesus tell his disciples to abide if there wasn’t any danger of not abiding?
The problem, as usual, is found between our ears. Most of us have grown up with a slave mentality that says our value is determined by what we do. This was certainly true of the disciples who had been born and bred under the law. They were conditioned to think in terms of their performance. This works mindset is also evident in some of our English translations:
“Remain in me, and I will remain in you.” (Jn 15:4, NIV)
Again, that sounds like a condition. It sounds like Jesus is saying, if your abiding performance is up to scratch, then I will reward you by abiding as well. But it is not a condition to make us sweat; it is a promise to make us rest. In John 15 Jesus goes to great lengths to counter the law-mentality of the disciples. He does this by hitting them with promise after promise:
“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.” (Jn 15:9)
How does the Father love Jesus? Ask yourself this question: How many miracles or works had Jesus done when the Father declared from heaven, “this is my beloved Son?” None! The Father loves Jesus unconditionally, without any reference to His performance or fruit. That means that Jesus loves us unconditionally! He wants us to rest in His unconditional love.
You’re free? Be free!
Just to recap – if you think abiding is something we must do, then understand that the evidence of abiding is zero sin. This is humanly impossible. The only logical response to the command “abide!” is to trust in Jesus and His performance and quit trying to impress Him with yours. The word “abide” connotes “rest” and “surrender,” not “struggle” and “try harder.”
Trust God, the abiding issue is all settled from His side. “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him.” But it may not be settled from your side. You may still be struggling with that old servant mentality.
Instead of rest there is insecurity. Instead of joy there is anxiety. Am I in? Can I be cut off? If this is you, let Jesus speak to your insecurity:
“I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (Jn 8:34-36)
The reality is, you are free indeed because Jesus has set you free. The reality is, you are abiding in the vine because you have confessed Him as Lord. But you may not be experiencing that reality.
You may feel like you’re not free or you’re not abiding. Although you are a son with a permanent place in the family, you may still think and act like the slave that you used to be. There’s only one solution: renew your mind! Stop living by feelings and start walking by faith. You are abiding in fact, so start abiding in practice.
When Jesus said, “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast out as a branch, withers, and is thrown into the fire,” He was not referring to fruitless Christians. (They are lifted up.) He was describing those who refuse to believe to that He is the Son of God. He was describing those who are looking for life outside of the true vine.
If you have confessed Jesus as your Lord, then walk in that the truth: You are free, God Himself abides in you, and as a son or daughter you have a permanent place in His family.
Thank you Jesus!
sorry I assumed you knew a little about the 7 church's at the beginning of Revelation, let me post the whole letter:
Revelation 3:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
here's the warnings:
v1) sardis you have a name that your alive but your dead
v2) strengthen the things that remain....ready to die
v3) repent or I will come on thee as a thief
v5) if you overcome I wont blot your name out
sounds like a lot of warning going on to me!
anybody with 4th grade English could read this and tell you "sardis better repent, and overcome or there names will be blotted out"
Revelation 3:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
here's the warnings:
v1) sardis you have a name that your alive but your dead
v2) strengthen the things that remain....ready to die
v3) repent or I will come on thee as a thief
v5) if you overcome I wont blot your name out
sounds like a lot of warning going on to me!
anybody with 4th grade English could read this and tell you "sardis better repent, and overcome or there names will be blotted out"
He did not WARN them of anything. YOU DID.
Jesus said He would NOT blot their names out of the book of life, NOT NOT NOT.
He NEVER said anywhere that He would. Read the Scripture.
DON'T read into them
Here is a grace-based view of Sardis.....always view all scripture through the lens of the finished work of Christ for us..or that scripture will con you..especially if you read it with a legalistic self-works based "lens".
Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)
What a wonderful thing for a church to get a letter from Jesus! The seven churches of Revelations 1-3 were a real mixed bag with some getting rebukes and others encouragement, but all were blessed. Even the churches that were mucking around with the things of God were blessed because they were being warned.
They were being given a chance to repent. These letters say as much about the mercy and goodness of God as they do the badness of certain people.
When we read these letters it is essential that we ask two questions: What is Jesus saying in light of the finished work of the cross? And who is he speaking to?
If we fail to rightly divide the word we can end up getting the wrong message. For instance, consider what Jesus says to the church at Sardis:
“I have not found your deeds complete” (Rev 3:2).
The issue of deeds comes up in several of these letters. At different times Jesus says, “I know your deeds,” or “your deeds are incomplete,” or “I will repay you according to your deeds.”
So what are these deeds that Jesus is talking about?
If we were living under the old covenant, we would no doubt define these deeds in terms of the 10 commandments plus the other 600 or so sundry Levitical laws.
Today some might say they are the deeds that “prove repentance” or they are works of obedience, as in, “we should do what the Bible says.” Okay, but do we obey everything in the Bible including the law? If not, how do we know when our deeds are complete?
At what point is repentance proved?
For the rest of the teaching click on the link below....this will give a view based on the finished work of Christ on our behalf..
Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6) – Escape to Reality
Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)
What a wonderful thing for a church to get a letter from Jesus! The seven churches of Revelations 1-3 were a real mixed bag with some getting rebukes and others encouragement, but all were blessed. Even the churches that were mucking around with the things of God were blessed because they were being warned.
They were being given a chance to repent. These letters say as much about the mercy and goodness of God as they do the badness of certain people.
When we read these letters it is essential that we ask two questions: What is Jesus saying in light of the finished work of the cross? And who is he speaking to?
If we fail to rightly divide the word we can end up getting the wrong message. For instance, consider what Jesus says to the church at Sardis:
“I have not found your deeds complete” (Rev 3:2).
The issue of deeds comes up in several of these letters. At different times Jesus says, “I know your deeds,” or “your deeds are incomplete,” or “I will repay you according to your deeds.”
So what are these deeds that Jesus is talking about?
If we were living under the old covenant, we would no doubt define these deeds in terms of the 10 commandments plus the other 600 or so sundry Levitical laws.
Today some might say they are the deeds that “prove repentance” or they are works of obedience, as in, “we should do what the Bible says.” Okay, but do we obey everything in the Bible including the law? If not, how do we know when our deeds are complete?
At what point is repentance proved?
For the rest of the teaching click on the link below....this will give a view based on the finished work of Christ on our behalf..
Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6) – Escape to Reality
Last edited:
[QUOT=Goodnewsman;2435712]what!! I didn't say anything about the parable of gates????? I quoted Rev 3 Jesus is talking☜ to the CHURCH.[/QUOTE]
And I was pointing out that the majority of people sitting on pews on Sunday Morning have settled for something less than the born again experience, of finding intense LOVE for CHRIST in our hearts, moving us to willingly surrender to HIM AS MASTER (which is what the word LORD means).
Taking up space on a pew on a regular basis does not make you a CHRISTIAN,
any more than taking up space sitting in a garage on a regular basis would make you a CAR.
Either you are not reading the entire context, or you have entered into it with a presupposition that most or all of those in the Sardis Church were saved. HERE READ THE CONTEXT.
Revelation 3:1-6 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]"And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works; you have a name of being alive, but you are dead. { ☜ the majority are COUNTERFEIT CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN.}
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your works perfect in the sight of my God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Remember then what you received and heard; obey it, and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Yet you have still a few persons in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes;
{ Those are the FEW who are truly Born Again.}
they will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes,
and I will not blot your name out of the book of life;
{ That is a promise to the FEW who are worthy and truly born again;
it is not a threat to the many who are still spiritually dead, because
their names were NEVER WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE TO BE BLOTTED OUT.
See the error of trying to read this with your presupposition that Christ is
threatening to blot out NAMES HE wrote in the book of life prior to the foundation
of the world. YOUR Error in interpretation would mean the perfect TRIUNE DIETY
made a mistake writing those names in the Book of Life in the first place.}
I will confess your name before my Father and before his angels.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.
And I was pointing out that the majority of people sitting on pews on Sunday Morning have settled for something less than the born again experience, of finding intense LOVE for CHRIST in our hearts, moving us to willingly surrender to HIM AS MASTER (which is what the word LORD means).
Taking up space on a pew on a regular basis does not make you a CHRISTIAN,
any more than taking up space sitting in a garage on a regular basis would make you a CAR.
Either you are not reading the entire context, or you have entered into it with a presupposition that most or all of those in the Sardis Church were saved. HERE READ THE CONTEXT.
Revelation 3:1-6 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]"And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works; you have a name of being alive, but you are dead. { ☜ the majority are COUNTERFEIT CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN.}
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your works perfect in the sight of my God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Remember then what you received and heard; obey it, and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Yet you have still a few persons in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes;
{ Those are the FEW who are truly Born Again.}
they will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes,
and I will not blot your name out of the book of life;
{ That is a promise to the FEW who are worthy and truly born again;
it is not a threat to the many who are still spiritually dead, because
their names were NEVER WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE TO BE BLOTTED OUT.
See the error of trying to read this with your presupposition that Christ is
threatening to blot out NAMES HE wrote in the book of life prior to the foundation
of the world. YOUR Error in interpretation would mean the perfect TRIUNE DIETY
made a mistake writing those names in the Book of Life in the first place.}
I will confess your name before my Father and before his angels.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.
This is such crock. GOD the father was well pleased with Jesus because he was perfectly obedient. Can anyone seriously think that Jesus would have been in good standing with the father if he hadn't been perfectly obedient to him?
Last edited:
The consequences of falling from Grace? . . . You would then be judged by the law and how you perfectly you obeyed everything God commanded - I think I prefer God's grace! 
That's the reason for being in Christ is so important. He..that is Jesus was the obedient One...we are in Him..His life flows out of us as we are in Christ..but it is His fruit...we have a great salvation in Him! He is awesome and mighty to save!
I'm with you!....
there are 2 kinds of people..those that trust in "their" own works and obedience or those that trust Jesus and His obedience...His life in us brings forth the fruits of His righteousness in us...
we have a good , loving Father!..Jesus started our salvation and life in Him..He will perfecxt it and finish it..We trust in Him..and Him alone!
People wanting to "earn" their salvation by good works get offended at grace....but we embrace Him and His finished work!
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
there are 2 kinds of people..those that trust in "their" own works and obedience or those that trust Jesus and His obedience...His life in us brings forth the fruits of His righteousness in us...
we have a good , loving Father!..Jesus started our salvation and life in Him..He will perfecxt it and finish it..We trust in Him..and Him alone!
People wanting to "earn" their salvation by good works get offended at grace....but we embrace Him and His finished work!
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
The consequences of falling from Grace? . . . You would then be judged by the law and how you perfectly you obeyed everything God commanded - I think I prefer God's grace!
I agree wholeheartedly, THE FATHER WILLED CREATION, and guess WHO carried out that WILL of the FATHER. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A TIME THAT THE SON WAS NOT OBEDIENT TO THE WILL OF THE FATHER, so you are right, that was a poor example.
Colossians 1:16-18 (ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
That term "firstborn" does NOT designate that HE was the Offspring of GOD. NO WAY! In the Jewish and Hebrew traditions, it only designates the ONE who has the right to inherit all that the Father has. That "firstborn" birthright to the heirship to everything, INCLUDING THE FATHER'S DEITY, could be given to ANYONE the FATHER CHOSE TO GIVE IT TO.
NO, Jesus says MANY who claim to be Christians NEVER established an inner personal LOVE relationship with HIM, submitting to HIM AS LORD, which means MASTER.
Matthew 7:20-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
THE ONLY PURE MOTIVE FOR DOING WHAT HE COMMANDS, IS TO SHOW OUR LOVE FOR HIM:
John 14:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
I REPEAT, all those on the BROAD ROAD TO DESTRUCTION, think they are Christians too, however they lowered the standards set in the TRUE GOSPEL, and fell for an easy believism FALSE GOSPEL. NOTICE IN VERSE 22 above, they THINK they are Christians, but JESUS is saying above that the inner personal LOVE relationship with HIM as LORD, IF IT IS GENUINE, will produce within that genuine believer, the DESIRE TO SHOW OUR LOVE FOR HIM BY STRIVING TO OBEY HIM, thereby submitting to HIS LORDSHIP.
THE LACK OF THAT DESIRE TO OBEY, only proves their Claiming to be a Christian is a LIE, and most likely they deceived themselves into believing something LESS than the TRUE GOSPEL.
1 John 2:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
Kenny erroneously believes and teaches heretically I might add that one can lose salvation.....he propagates a working for salvation dogma hat is contrary to the truth..even though he denies this...
A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...
I like the term "lets eat fried Chicken" as opposed to "lets eat green beans"
but that doesn't change the existence of "green beans" only by opinion of them
[QUOTE=skylove7;2436065]Falling from grace?
Hmmmm
Nahhhhh....
I like the term rising from sin best lol[/QUOTE]
but that doesn't change the existence of "green beans" only by opinion of them
[
QUOTE=skylove7;2436065]Falling from grace?Hmmmm
Nahhhhh....
I like the term rising from sin best lol
[/QUOTE]