What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

VCO · Jan 9, 2016

You have pointed out a major problem in Christiandom today. FEW understand, that GRACE, involves no works on our part, or it would cease to GRACE, and salvation would be wages for serving HIM, and NOT the free gift that GOD SAYS IT IS. The answer lies in the SIMPLICITY OF THE GOSPEL, and believing HE LITERALLY MEANS WHAT HE SAYS.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 4:3-5 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

THEREFORE the purpose of works, can NEVER BE FOR SALVATION, or it ceases to be a gift, and ceases to be GRACE, which is something UNEARNED. What then is the ONLY PURE MOTIVE for works? IT CAN NEVER BE TO EARN ANY PART OF SALVATION, but rather TO EXHIBIT OUR LOVE FOR HIM:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

In a VERY REAL SENSE, GOD's Love that the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts, the moment we believed and received JESUS as LORD, (Rom. 5:5), IS WHAT SPAWNS OR PRODUCES in our hearts a desire to SHOW OUR LOVE FOR HIM by our obedience.

So, many will say that they have seen Christians fall from Grace and Lose their Salvation. BUT IS THAT WHAT THE SCRIPTURES ACTUALLY SAY?

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Conclusion, genuine Christianity will produce in us a desire to continually strive to obey HIM; not out of our own power and strength, but rather out of GOD's LOVE that was poured into our hearts.

Yes there is such a thing as backsliding, so what do we lose?
Crowns, spiritual maturity, heavenly rewards, and perhaps even our position of Service in Heaven; but NEVER OUR SALVATION, IF our faith and submission to receive HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER, was real in the first place. The easy believism TV false gospel of today, LEADS MANY, to believe they are saved, when in reality they entered through the WRONG GATE, and are on the Broad ROAD of destruction in HELL.

Goodnewsman · Jan 9, 2016

if all you can lose is crowns, spiritual maturity and rewards in heaven why did Jesus warn the sardis church to repent or get there names blotted out of the book of life? if your name isn't in the book, you go to hell
Revelation 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

VCO said:

You have pointed out a major problem in Christiandom today. FEW understand, that GRACE, involves no works on our part, or it would cease to GRACE, and salvation would be wages for serving HIM, and NOT the free gift that GOD SAYS IT IS. The answer lies in the SIMPLICITY OF THE GOSPEL, and believing HE LITERALLY MEANS WHAT HE SAYS.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 4:3-5 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

THEREFORE the purpose of works, can NEVER BE FOR SALVATION, or it ceases to be a gift, and ceases to be GRACE, which is something UNEARNED. What then is the ONLY PURE MOTIVE for works? IT CAN NEVER BE TO EARN ANY PART OF SALVATION, but rather TO EXHIBIT OUR LOVE FOR HIM:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

In a VERY REAL SENSE, GOD's Love that the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts, the moment we believed and received JESUS as LORD, (Rom. 5:5), IS WHAT SPAWNS OR PRODUCES in our hearts a desire to SHOW OUR LOVE FOR HIM by our obedience.

So, many will say that they have seen Christians fall from Grace and Lose their Salvation. BUT IS THAT WHAT THE SCRIPTURES ACTUALLY SAY?

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Conclusion, genuine Christianity will produce in us a desire to continually strive to obey HIM; not out of our own power and strength, but rather out of GOD's LOVE that was poured into our hearts.

Yes there is such a thing as backsliding, so what do we lose?
Crowns, spiritual maturity, heavenly rewards, and perhaps even our position of Service in Heaven; but NEVER OUR SALVATION, IF our faith and submission to receive HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER, was real in the first place. The easy believism TV false gospel of today, LEADS MANY, to believe they are saved, when in reality they entered through the WRONG GATE, and are on the Broad ROAD of destruction in HELL.

VCO · Jan 10, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

BECAUSE THEY HAD SETTLED FOR SOMETHING FAR LESS THAN GENUINE CHRISTIANITY. NONE OF THEM WERE OF US. The parable of the gates is only about people who think they are Christians.

VCO · Jan 10, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

Continued: In other WORDS THEY NEVER POSSESSED ETERNAL LIFE IF THEY ARE NOT TRULY OVERCOMERS.

Those who are truly Born Again, are by nature overcomers, while those who only claim the name CHRISTIAN, have settled for head knowledge about Jesus, with NO REAL HEART KNOWLEDGE, NO HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM, and NO AMOUNT OF GOD'S LOVE IN THEIR HEART. Like I said, Broad Road Christianity SAVES NO ONE; what I call Easy Believism False Gospel Followers. Here is what CHRIST Himself said about them:

Matthew 7:20-24 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

There is NO SUCH THING, as losing your Eternal Life, IT IS NOT ETERNAL IF YOU CAN LOSE IT. Now, there are a LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY HAVE IT, WHEN THEY NEVER HAD IT. Those who HAVE ETERNAL LIFE will not abandon Christ and HE will not abandon them.

1 John 2:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and
does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:

Their Lack of Obedience or Abandoning Obedience permanently ONLY PROVES THEY NEVER KNEW HIM.

That is the definitive difference between Entering the Easy Believism Broad Gate, and Entering the NARROW GATE of submitting to HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER, purely because you LOVE HIM.

Do we get to pat ourselves on the back? NO, all the glory belongs to HIM for our OVERCOMING, because it is the spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit WHO are in us, enabling us to persevere.

Matthew 22:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "For many are called, but few are chosen."

How do I know this is TRUE, because I USED TO BE ONE OF THE MANY. I did not become one of the FEW who are Born Again, until I was 29 and surrendered to HIM after my third attempt at suicide. I frequently took up space on a pew prior to that, knowing a lot about HIM, and acknowledging it was all true; but hey, even the demons have that kind of knowledge about Him. NOW I KNOW HIM INTIMATELY, PERSONALLY, AND LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART.

VCO · Jan 10, 2016

John 3:35-36 (HCSB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hands.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE ONE, AND ALSO JESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE, the TRINITY is the ONE AND ONLY GOD THAT EXISTS. If that is the kind of faith you have, you WILL out LOVE for HIM Receive HIM AS LORD, which means MASTER.

John 14:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him it doesn’t see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.

John 14:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip?
The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own. The Father who lives in Me does His works.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me. Otherwise, believe because of the works themselves.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who believes haseternal life.

John 10:28 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

NO, YOU CAN NEVER LOSE ETERNAL LIFE, IF YOU EVER REALLY HAD IT.

valiant · Jan 10, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

if all you can lose is crowns, spiritual maturity and rewards in heaven why did Jesus warn the sardis church to repent or get there names blotted out of the book of life?
Revelation 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

there, the emphasis says it all.

Goodnewsman · Jan 10, 2016

what!! I didn't say anything about the parable of gates????? I quoted Rev 3 Jesus is talking to the CHURCH.

VCO said:

dcontroversal · Jan 10, 2016

AMEN....when I seen the thread title....I thought..oh great here we go....glad to see you understand it and did not misapply it to losing salvation.....which does not, has not and will not ever happen...we are eternally secure in Christ........

mailmandan · Jan 10, 2016

Certain people prefer to remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security and they want everyone to join them. Misery loves company!

valiant · Jan 10, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

where is the church at Sardis threatened with being blotted out of the book of life.? It speaks of those who will NOT be. They will rather confess His Name before the Father in heaven. Your emphasis is ungodly and incorrect.

mailmandan · Jan 10, 2016

valiant said:

Amen! Who is it that overcomes? 1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. What does that say about those who don't overcome?

FreeNChrist · Jan 10, 2016

Grace Abounds

Instead of straining to comprehend this as a theological truth, it would be better and simpler to compare God's grace with our need. We can never know the enormity of our sin, neither is it necessary that we should. What we can know is that "where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."

To "abound" in sin: that is the worst and the most we could or can do. The word 'abound' defines the limit of our finite abilities; and although we feel our iniquities rise over us like a mountain, the mountain, nevertheless, has definable boundaries: it is so large, so high, it weighs only this certain amount and no more. But who shall define the limitless grace of God? Its "much more" plunges our thoughts into infinitude and confounds them there. All thanks be to God for grace abounding.

We who feel ourselves alienated from the fellowship of God can now raise our discouraged heads and look up. Through the virtues of Christ's atoning death the cause of our banishment has been removed. We may return as the Prodigal returned, and be welcome. As we approach the Garden, our home before the Fall, the flaming sword is withdrawn. The keepers of the Tree of Life stand aside when they see a son of grace approaching.

- A W Tozer

Grandpa · Jan 10, 2016

mailmandan said:

Revelation 12:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

KennethC · Jan 10, 2016

valiant said:

Revelation 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Why must we ignore half the scripture given as it is showing only those who overcome will not be blotted out of the book of life. Those who don't overcome will be blotted out !!!

Grandpa · Jan 10, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

I really like AW Tozer.

He is one of my favorites, up there with CS Lewis.

We should all just admit that we don't really understand Grace at all. It doesn't make sense that we who don't deserve Gods Goodness should just walk in to His Kingdom and assume we belong.

But I think the Lord likes a certain boldness.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

FreeNChrist · Jan 10, 2016

KennethC said:

1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Grace777x70 · Jan 10, 2016

What message did Jesus have for the saints in Sardis?

“They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.” (Rev 3:4-5)

Those who preach a works-based gospel – which is no gospel at all – have used this verse to burden Christians with unholy demands for religious works.

They say things like, “you’ve got to perform for Jesus lest he find your deeds incomplete.” Or they say, “if you don’t overcome to the end, Jesus will blot out your name from the book of life.” Honestly, it’s as if the cross made no difference at all!

Why would Jesus – who nailed the law to the cross and died so that we might live free from its demands – suddenly turn around and start laying law on his church?

In this passage Jesus gives Christians the most wonderful assurance of their salvation. He says, “I will never blot out their names from the book of life.” To this the confused preacher replies, “Watch out Jesus might be tricking us, he might yet do what he just said he would never do.”

It’s ludicrous!

Jesus not only died for us but he lives for us that we might be holy and blameless. The riches of his love for us are not bound up in threats and conditions. He “performed” so that we don’t have to. Just as Jesus “worked” on our behalf, so he has overcome on our behalf:

“In the world you have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” (Jn 16:33)

If you are in Christ, you have already overcome the world because he has overcome the world (1 Jn 4:4). Trials and tribulations may entangle and overcome sinners (2 Pet 2:20), but they cannot overcome you. You may not feel like an overcomer. The circumstances of your life may be trying to tell you that you are not an overcomer. But they are lying. They are speaking from a worldly point of view.

We are from God and he says we are more than conquerors through Christ who loved us (Rms 8:37). The world may rise up against you, but Almighty God is for you! The entire world may try and condemn you but God himself justifies you (Rms 8:33).

The next time circumstances or people try to lay guilt on you saying you must do this and that to overcome, respond with this: “I believe that Jesus is God’s Son. In him I have already overcome the world!” (1 Jn 5:5).

The good news is not that you have to work hard to rescue yourself.

The good news is that God himself has rescued you and qualified you and brought you into the kingdom of the Son he loves (Col 1:12). God looks at you clothed with Christ and says, “you are worthy and your deeds are perfectly complete!”

Grace777x70 · Jan 10, 2016

[h=1]Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)[/h]
What a wonderful thing for a church to get a letter from Jesus! The seven churches of Revelations 1-3 were a real mixed bag with some getting rebukes and others encouragement, but all were blessed. Even the churches that were mucking around with the things of God were blessed because they were being warned. They were being given a chance to repent. These letters say as much about the mercy and goodness of God as they do the badness of certain people.

When we read these letters it is essential that we ask two questions: What is Jesus saying in light of the finished work of the cross? And who is he speaking to?

If we fail to rightly divide the word we can end up getting the wrong message. For instance, consider what Jesus says to the church at Sardis:

“I have not found your deeds complete” (Rev 3:2).

The issue of deeds comes up in several of these letters. At different times Jesus says, “I know your deeds,” or “your deeds are incomplete,” or “I will repay you according to your deeds.”

So what are these deeds that Jesus is talking about?

If we were living under the old covenant, we would no doubt define these deeds in terms of the 10 commandments plus the other 600 or so sundry Levitical laws.

Today some might say they are the deeds that “prove repentance” or they are works of obedience, as in, “we should do what the Bible says.” Okay, but do we obey everything in the Bible including the law? If not, how do we know when our deeds are complete? At what point is repentance proved?

No, Jesus did not go to the cross so that we could get the chance to work for our salvation. Some people think Christianity is about rules and regulations, but that’s not grace. No, Jesus “worked” so that we would not have to. He died, so that we might enter his rest unencumbered by the heavy yoke of religion.

Someone once asked Jesus, what must we do to do the works of God? Jesus replied,

“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he sent” (Jn 6:29).

What is our divine occupation? It is believing in the finished work of Jesus and “working” that out in our lives to the point where the supernatural becomes natural and our broken world is restored. This was no one off claim either. From the very beginning of his ministry Jesus consistently preached, “repent and believe the good news” (Mk 1:15).

What does Jesus want you to do? He wants you to repent and believe the good news. And he wants you to tell other people the good news so they have a chance to repent and believe too.

If you think that is too simple, that we also obey Jesus’ commandments, consider what he commanded us to do:

“And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ… ” (1 Jn 3:23)

Here in the church at Sardis was a group of people who heard the good news but had not repented and did not believe. They were busy doing churchy stuff but it was all dead works. They had a reputation of being alive but Jesus wasn’t fooled. “You are dead. Wake up!” I call them the church of the living-dead, but really they were just dead.

Are you surprised to learn that there are unbelievers in the church? You shouldn’t be. Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian. You can preach, prophesy, cast out demons and perform signs and wonders without ever knowing Christ (Mt 7:23). It’s not going to church or leading a church that counts, it’s whether you have repented and put your faith in Jesus.

In many of the letters to the New Testament churches there are sections either addressed to unbelievers or warning the saints about the influence of unbelievers among them. The letter to the church at Sardis is no exception. How do we know for sure there were some unbelievers in the church at Sardis? Because Jesus said they were dead and in danger of judgment.

What message did Jesus have for the sinners in Sardis?

To the unbelievers at Sardis Jesus said, “remember what you have heard; hold fast and repent” (Rev 3:3, KJV). What had they heard but the gospel? What work did he want them to do? He wanted them to grasp the good news, hold fast to it, and repent.

Jesus compares repenting to waking up. Twice he tells them to “wake up!” Paul used similar language when he told the Romans to put aside their “deeds of darkness” and wake up from their slumber (Rms 13:11-12). To repent is to wake up, to come to one’s senses and return to the Father (1 Cor 15:34, Lk 15:17).

Jesus warned the Sardisians, “if you don’t wake up, I will come like a thief.” This is a warning of impending judgment. The zombie sinners at Sardis had heard and rejected the good news. They were playing church and rejecting the grace of God. In his mercy, Jesus was giving them another chance to say “yes” to him before it was too late.

This is the same message Jesus has for religious people everywhere. Stop playing church. Wake up and obey what you heard before it’s too late. Repent and believe the good news.

But this church wasn’t a completely lost cause for among the sinners were a “few” saints.

We know this because Jesus clearly distinguishes a second group within the church who had not “soiled their clothes” and who were considered “worthy.” How do we soil our clothes? By trying to make ourselves righteous (Is 64:6). What makes a person worthy in God’s eyes? Being clothed with Christ and his righteousness (Is 61:10).

Grandpa · Jan 10, 2016

I wonder if falling from Grace is when a person starts believing that warnings to un-believers actually apply to them.

I wonder if a person must be an eternal optimist in order to be Christian?

Romans 8:34-39
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[SUP]36 [/SUP]As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Grace777x70 · Jan 10, 2016

What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

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