SIN

[BenFTW]

Actually, awareness of sin does have the power to transform. Denial of sin and pretending it doesn't exist is like masking over the symptoms of a disease without treating its root cause.

I want GOD to reveal my sin to me so that I can bring it to the light and be healed. Sin has no power to condemn. Why be afraid of it?

Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Hebrews 12:12-13​

Yes because Israel stopped sinning after all those years of law abidance (sarcasm, they still did sacrifices for their sins regardless of an awareness of sin). So transformational. I didn't state sin itself had the power to condemn, I said an awareness of one's sin is condemning because it makes you ever so aware of your lack of perfection (and meeting God's standard).

You're putting words in my mouth, unintentionally or not. "Denial of sin and pretending it doesn't exist is like masking over the symptoms of disease without treating its root cause", no one is denying their sin, pretending it doesn't exist, or masking over it as nothing. They are allowing themselves to have their mind renewed to the spiritual truths of God's word, so that it expresses itself in their conduct. By faith and not sight, continually meditating upon certain grace principles and identifying oneself in the way the Lord defines us (who He says you are in Christ, a son and dead to sin).

Putting up a straw man to take down isn't helping anyone overcome the sin that is in their life. Your disagreements with these posts aren't even what is being proposed. I can take responsibility for it, but it seems others understand my posts. However, say I take responsibility (let me be a better teacher), what do you suppose I am preaching? You defined it in terms of "rehashed gnosticism." Here is another opportunity for you to expound, please do.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If a person doesn't understand that Christ paid for his/her guilt, I think its fair to say that they are a babe in Christ or faking salvation.

I understand fully that Christ paid the debt for my sin, but that is an entirely different thing than feeling guilt for having done wrong. It almost seems as if you accept no responsibility for any sin you might do.

 

[Gr8grace]

Yes because Israel stopped sinning after all those years of law abidance (sarcasm, they still did sacrifices for their sins regardless of an awareness of sin). So transformational. I didn't state sin itself had the power to condemn, I said an awareness of one's sin is condemning because it makes you ever so aware of your lack of perfection (and meeting God's standard).

You're putting words in my mouth, unintentionally or not. "Denial of sin and pretending it doesn't exist is like masking over the symptoms of disease without treating its root cause", no one is denying their sin, pretending it doesn't exist, or masking over it as nothing. They are allowing themselves to have their mind renewed to the spiritual truths of God's word, so that it expresses itself in their conduct. By faith and not sight, continually meditating upon certain grace principles and identifying oneself in the way the Lord defines us (who He says you are in Christ, a son and dead to sin).

Putting up a straw man to take down isn't helping anyone overcome the sin that is in their life. Your disagreements with these posts aren't even what is being proposed. I can take responsibility for it, but it seems others understand my posts. However, say I take responsibility (let me be a better teacher), what do you suppose I am preaching? You defined it in terms of "rehashed gnosticism." Here is another opportunity for you to expound, please do.

Ben, keep it up. You have me and most everybody here beat in maturity. Its a gift and not dependent upon us, as I know you know. You have a gift, advance in it Brother.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 5:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

If we are not accustomed ( unskilled ) in the word of righteousness we do not have our senses ( [FONT="Gentium" !important]Aisthanomai[/FONT] denotes “to perceive,” and by extension, “to see with the [FONT="Gentium" !important]inner[/FONT] eye.” ),..

we do not have our senses trained to discern self-righteousness or that we are relying on His righteousness.

Isaiah 54:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If anyone fiercely assails you it will not be from Me. Whoever assails you will fall because of you.


Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Alpha-Gamma.perceive trained

 

[Gr8grace]

I understand fully that Christ paid the debt for my sin, but that is an entirely different thing than feeling guilt for having done wrong. It almost seems as if you accept no responsibility for any sin you might do.

Its a tough one................ Christ accepted ALL responsibility for ALL sin.

 

[Gr8grace]

I understand fully that Christ paid the debt for my sin,

No you don't. Not from what I have read from you.

You may say it but your explaining proves you don't believe it. Its how I take anyway. You may want to explain better?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes because Israel stopped sinning after all those years of law abidance (sarcasm, they still did sacrifices for their sins regardless of an awareness of sin). So transformational. I didn't state sin itself had the power to condemn, I said an awareness of one's sin is condemning because it makes you ever so aware of your lack of perfection (and meeting God's standard).

Awareness of one's sin is only condemning when there is no faith. Faith sees that there is no condemnation in GOD's grace.

You're putting words in my mouth, unintentionally or not. "Denial of sin and pretending it doesn't exist is like masking over the symptoms of disease

without treating its root cause", no one is denying their sin, pretending it doesn't exist, or masking over it as nothing. They are allowing themselves to have their mind renewed to the spiritual truths of God's word, so that it expresses itself in their conduct. By faith and not sight, continually meditating upon certain grace principles and identifying oneself in the way the Lord defines us (who He says you are in Christ, a son and dead to sin).

I've watched this show enough to know that new.modern.hyper grace devotees do deal with their sin nature by denying it. Doesn't matter how many words you use to try get around it. It's a fact.

Putting up a stra

w man to take down isn't helping anyone overcome the sin that is in their life. Your disagreements with these posts aren't even what is being proposed. I can take responsibility for it, but it seems others understand my posts. However, say I take responsibility (let me be a better teacher), what do you suppose I am preaching? You defined it in terms of "rehashed gnosticism." Here is another opportunity for you to expound, please do.

Others understand your words because it is the carefully crafted language of new.modern.hyper grace and they are its devotees.

I'll respond with the similarities between gnosticism and new.modern.hyper grace later. It's getting late here.

Are you commenting from a mobile device? It's very hard to respond to your posts because there is so much formatting garbage embedded throughout the text.

 

[Gr8grace]

Awareness of one's sin is only condemning when there is no faith. Faith sees that there is no condemnation in GOD's grace.

So you believe in eternal security and a believer CANNOT lose salvation?..............or is there still some condemnation for some believers?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So you believe in eternal security and a believer CANNOT lose salvation?..............or is there still some condemnation for some believers?

Without faith a person is lost. There is no salvation apart from faith.

 

[Gr8grace]

Awareness of one's sin is only condemning when there is no faith. Faith sees that there is no condemnation in GOD's grace.



I've watched this show enough to know that new.modern.hyper grace devotees do deal with their sin nature by denying it. Doesn't matter how many words you use to try get around it. It's a fact.



Others understand your words because it is the carefully crafted language of new.modern.hyper grace and they are its devotees.

I'll respond with the similarities between gnosticism and new.modern.hyper grace later. It's getting late here.

Are you commenting from a mobile device? It's very hard to respond to your posts because there is so much formatting garbage embedded throughout the text.

And it is ironic, your false doctrine and carefully crafted words are unnoticed by the majority, yours is such that it takes study and closeness to the mind of Christ to discern your counterfeit.......just the way it is prophesied in His Word.

 

[pottersclay]

This is a very good topic to discuss due to a common ailment we all have....sin.
Sin is just not doing bad things, it also thinking them and being entertained by it. We are surrounded by it and it is found in our very fabric of our being. So many times I get so frustrated with myself and say..." Lord how do you do it" how do you stay so clean and pure? I fight guilt and depression constantly. I keep it real before the Lord and me and anyone that asks . How I would love to see and feel through the eyes and heart of the Lord as Jesus did. I hate sin as it keeps me from doing this most the time. The Lord knows my heart and I always am truthful in that...how can you lie to the one who knows you best? Sin is a serious issue we all must understand fully. Transparency is how we humble ourselves and stay humble.

 

[Gr8grace]

Without faith a person is lost. There is no salvation apart from faith.

The MOMENT any man believes, CHRIST saves them. Acts 16:31 and the aorist tense of believe proves this. If the next moment the believer picks up the bottle and stays on the bottle.............he is saved, because salvation is dependent on GRACE, not faith. Faith was a moment in time, grace is eternal.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Its a tough one................ Christ accepted ALL responsibility for ALL sin.

If that were true Christ would not have said that he held their sins against them in the churches mentioned in Revelation. He was holding them accountable.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The MOMENT any man believes, CHRIST saves them. Acts 16:31 and the aorist tense of believe proves this. If the next moment the believer picks up the bottle and stays on the bottle.............he is saved, because salvation is dependent on GRACE, not faith. Faith was a moment in time, grace is eternal.

No, the aorist doesn't prove anything. Aorist is indefinite, not simple past.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The MOMENT any man believes, CHRIST saves them. Acts 16:31 and the aorist tense of believe proves this. If the next moment the believer picks up the bottle and stays on the bottle.............he is saved, because salvation is dependent on GRACE, not faith. Faith was a moment in time, grace is eternal.

You're just repeating what the gnostics in the early church period believed. They thought the exact same thing.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The MOMENT any man believes, CHRIST saves them. Acts 16:31 and the aorist tense of believe proves this. If the next moment the believer picks up the bottle and stays on the bottle.............he is saved, because salvation is dependent on GRACE, not faith. Faith was a moment in time, grace is eternal.

This is known as salvation by grace apart from faith. Completely unbiblical. But definitely gnostic!

 

[pottersclay]

By grace you are saved through faith....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The MOMENT any man believes, CHRIST saves them. Acts 16:31 and the aorist tense of believe proves this. If the next moment the believer picks up the bottle and stays on the bottle.............he is saved, because salvation is dependent on GRACE, not faith. Faith was a moment in time, grace is eternal.

This is what the gnostics in the early church period believed. Here's what Ireneaus said about them in Against Heresies. His witness is important because he was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John. So he would have had a good understanding of the true faith because he was only one generation removed from John's teachings.

Animal men, again, are instructed in animal things; such men, namely, as are established by their works, and by a mere faith, while they have not perfect knowledge. We of the Church, [the gnostics] say, are these persons. Wherefore also they maintain that good works are necessary to us, for that otherwise it is impossible we should be saved. But as to themselves, [the gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. ... so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [conduct] in which they may be involved.

...they tell us that it is necessary for us [of the Church] whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to [the gnostics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but the seed sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection.​

 

[phil36]

Just wanted to pick up on the 'hyper grace' thing.

I don't know what this teaching is fully. But what I do know is that Lordship salvation is not biblical either.

When someone receives Christ as their Saviour.. He is Lord and God.. but that doesn't mean instantly at salvation that every area now of the person's life is now submitted to God completely.

Eternal salvation isn't an on-going process of submitting each area to life continually.. it's a once off act on the part of the Holy Spirit in convicting someone of their sin.. who responds by trusting Him for eternal life.

Believe for eternal salvation-- is a 'change of mind, heart'.. not an ongoing continually repenting state of being. At justification it happens once and for all.

The Holy Spirit dwelling in that person's soul then 'continues to believe' in them. .. keeping them secure.

Maybe this is 'hyper grace'.. I don't know. But Lordship salvation is definitely not biblical either.

Sanctification is a seperate process... after justification. The continually repenting part comes in to this.. but the justification remains. The sanctification process determines closeness to Jesus.. but is not dependent on getting in to heaven.

Hi Wattie,

I don't think you understand what I mean or others mean By Christ being Lord over all our lives.. It does not mean what you have wrongly suggested... sanctification is progressive.. would you not agree.

Hyper grace wrongly emphazises one aspect of the Christian life and scripture teaching to the detriment of the teachings. I am not saying that everything that hyper grace teaches is wrong yet it is mixed with serious error. It is this error mixed with truth that makes it very dangerous. I would not go as far as to say it is antinomian but it certainly (then they would be heretics) but it certainly and dangerously dances around the edge of the antinomian campfire.

Hyper grace does get one thing right, once you are saved..you are saved for eternity..your sins are forgiven..and yet if you are honest with yourself and not deceiving yourself..you will know that you still sin. you will still tell lies, you will still get angry with people, you wil still lust with the eye and the list goes on and on and on and on and on (even if only for a split sec). Hyper grace would have you believe that theres no need to confess..its all forgiven already.... it is here where they dance dangerously around the antinomian camp fire.


What do you mean wattie..by the Holy Spirit dwelling in the person '''''continues to believes in that person''' Is that even biblical? I think not! The Holy Spirit helps you to keep ''''believing in Jesus'''', not you, your not God!! the Holy Spirit guides you into Holiness and Truth ...oh by the way what is that truth residing in you?

 

[Brother_Don]

The Bible speaks of sin 1,016 times, 740 in old testament, 276 in new testament. The Bible speaks of righteousness 291 times, 200 in old testament, and 91 in new testament. How will people realize what sin is if nobody will tell them?