The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[sydlit]

No wonder, Syd...... It's all upside-down. LOL

Hows this. Any help

 

[Magenta]

Hows this. Any help

You have five CC tabs open

 

[Grandpa]

I don't mean to say you've done all of these (surely I recall a couple), but the last couple of days others have brought these "issues" up. You have brought up the sin misconception, even comparing it to Gnosticism. I am not offering you a format, but just offering you my observation that your disagreements are unfounded. Another user heavily puts these arguments up for refutation, but they too are misrepresenting Hyper-Grace. These are talking points because they continue to be put forth as errors of Hyper-Grace, yet they aren't. Hyper-Grace doctrine is being maligned.

Points 3 and 4 of the very first post talk about license to sin.

Then it goes on to talk about "other abominations".

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well is it in this post? I just copied your W and posted it. Does it still reveal itself? Why its doing that, IDK. I think I copied a W from Google, just typing in "abcdefg..." and then a W appears. Then I copy it. Or I'll copy another user's W, like I just did for this post.

This is what it does when you paste in a W that you've copied from a web app. It closes out the current color and opens color #333333, which is dark gray.

</COLOR]<COLOR=#333333]W

 

[BenFTW]

Points 3 and 4 of the very first post talk about license to sin.

Then it goes on to talk about "other abominations".

Right, I've seen a couple of the points throughout his posts on the forums. Maybe not specifically in this post, but over all. That is the source of naming some of the others.

 

[sydlit]

You have five CC tabs open

What does that have to do with it? The 'share' bar is at the bottom and covers the window when the keyboard comes up.

 

[Magenta]

What does that have to do with it? The 'share' bar is at the bottom and covers the window when the keyboard comes up.

I was joking... you told me before your tablet could not handle multiple pages open... but on the sides of every page are buttons for facebook and twitter and the like, for sharing. You can make them disappear, though they will come back every time you open a new page. I don't know if that has anything to do with what you are talking about or not...

 

[sydlit]

I was joking... you told me before your tablet could not handle multiple pages open... but on the sides of every page are buttons for facebook and twitter and the like, for sharing. You can make them disappear, though they will come back every time you open a new page. I don't know if that has anything to do with what you are talking about or not...

this is the Last post I'm sorry for tying up thread. The tablet can have those 'open' but nothing happens unless I go back to email and return to that spot. So they seem open but theyre frozen. I dont have those icons down the side, just this new annoying share bar. Anyone know what this is and how to get rid of it? Feel free to pm me. Heres how it looks when I type...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't mean to say you've done all of these (surely I recall a couple), but the last couple of days others have brought these "issues" up. You have brought up the sin misconception, even comparing it to Gnosticism. I am not offering you a format, but just offering you my observation that your disagreements are unfounded. Another user heavily puts these arguments up for refutation, but they too are misrepresenting Hyper-Grace. These are talking points because they continue to be put forth as errors of Hyper-Grace, yet they aren't. Hyper-Grace doctrine is being maligned.

Well this pinpoints the difficulty in conversing at a productive level with you and others steeped in the new.modern.hyper grace elixir. I have repeatedly called what you and others proclaim to be lawless grace, but that charge is filtered through the "lens" that has descended over your minds to mean that I have accused devotees of proclaiming a license to sin. This is just a practiced talking point that is used to deflect from the real issue, which is the lawless spirit behind the doctrine.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Points 3 and 4 of the very first post talk about license to sin.

Then it goes on to talk about "other abominations".

Right, I've seen a couple of the points throughout his posts on the forums. Maybe not specifically in this post, but over all. That is the source of naming some of the others.

I don't understand what you're agreeing with. Points 3 and 4 are Irenaeus' descriptions of gnostic beliefs/behavior during the 2nd century. I bolded what things are similar to beliefs expressed by new.modern.hyper grace devotees today, which are indisputably believed and proclaimed here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We ask it of other humans because they hold it against us..... as we humans do. But our Father told us that He let His son die for us so that sin would be defeated from that moment, on. Jesus cried out from that cross, "Father, forgive them." NOT: "Father, forgive them IF they prove their worthiness by doing something they will come to call "repenting" each and every time they do something wrong."

I think you make a good point.

I can not comprehend Gods unconditional forgiveness, Until I earn to forgive unconditionally myself.. True faiht in action from a mature believer in Christ would be this very thing..

How many of us actually make it to that point, yet God still forgives us..

 

[valiant]

Well this pinpoints the difficulty in conversing at a productive level with you and others steeped in the new.modern.hyper grace elixir. I have repeatedly called what you and others proclaim to be lawless grace, but that charge is filtered through the "lens" that has descended over your minds to mean that I have accused devotees of proclaiming a license to sin. This is just a practiced talking point that is used to deflect from the real issue, which is the lawless spirit behind the doctrine.

well I believe in the old doctrine of the grace of God, the grace which saves men to the uttermost

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'll respond to this tomorrow, but you're just repeating the new.modern.hyper grace talking points that you've been taught to repeat. I haven't discussed the bolded topics you mentioned in the context you're trying to present, but you're addressing me like I have. You're simply framing talking points within the crafted framework that you've learned how to argue with. That's why it's difficult IMO to have a reasoned discussion with you.

This gets frustrating.

1. No one is telling you what we are taught to think, We tell you what we believe.
2. We do not believe ANYTHING of what you are saying
3. Ben politely asked you to stop using these straw men arguments (it is actually what you are taught to think, or you would not be making such erroneous accusations which are not true, you would actually listen to what we say) yet all you can do is again tell him he is wrong in what he actually believes..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well this pinpoints the difficulty in conversing at a productive level with you and others steeped in the new.modern.hyper grace elixir.

Yes, it is difficult Because we are not steeped in it.. You just think we are. because of your presupposed convictions. Not based on anything we say or do.

and again, it is getting quite old.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't understand what you're agreeing with. Points 3 and 4 are Irenaeus' descriptions of gnostic beliefs/behavior during the 2nd century. I bolded what things are similar to beliefs expressed by new.modern.hyper grace devotees today, which are indisputably believed and proclaimed here.

works based gospels. such as roman catholicism, believes in the death burial and ressurection of Christ.
Does that mean we should reject the cross. Because these false prophets and believers believe in it?

That is exactly what your doing. Just because a group may believe in something another groups says, does not make them like that group.
Gnostics believed they could sin all they want, because it did not matter, what they did in the body was meaningless. So they excused their sin and could please themselves all they want, because it did not matter, it is the spiritual that mattered, and the spirit can not sin.

Grace (hyper or not) teaches that we can not sin all we want, that would be a mockery to the grace of God. nor do we want to sin all we want (even at all) we want out of gratitude, to learn the ways of the father, the gnostics had no desire whatsoever to do this.

you can not compaier the two. Because they have one or two things you happen to be against. they are night and day apart in their belief system, Not even remotely identical.

 

[Grace777x70]

This quote from BenFTW says it all...

This is hardly a connection between God's grace and Gnosticism. Believers in Gnosticism believe that sin couldn't be imputed to them because they were inherently spirit. They didn't believe they had sin (1 John 1:9; unlike grace believers, who acknowledge their sin but know Jesus took care of it). Sin isn't imputed to us because it was given to Christ at the cross. That is the hyper-grace stance, not in agreement with Gnosticism. It glorifies Jesus Christ and not self.

Those adhering to Gnosticism found comfort/assurance in themselves just like the self-righteous legalistic gospel individuals do. Their assurance is found in themselves. It rather seems Gnosticism and Legalism have a likeness and it is pride. Looking to self as the full measure of assurance, as the means to why one is saved. Unlike those in agreement with "modern hyper-grace", knowing their salvation is not dependent upon themselves but the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The opposition you have against Hyper-Grace theology seems to be chalk full of straw man, and ignorance (respectfully). Every disagreement thus far and refuted continues to be one not posited by those who you would say fall under "new modern Hyper Grace" teaching. I suggest you read a book by a grace preacher so you can better understand what you seem to be so against.

At the moment, you aren't addressing what some might call the "Gospel of Grace" but some imagined gospel that contradicts scripture and grace preachers themselves. You're refuting something that isn't being presented and therefore are wasting your time and those reading. Its pointless, and only further buries people in ignorance to God's grace.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Points 3 and 4 of the very first post talk about license to sin.

Then it goes on to talk about "other abominations".

This gets frustrating.

1. No one is telling you what we are taught to think, We tell you what we believe.
2. We do not believe ANYTHING of what you are saying
3. Ben politely asked you to stop using these straw men arguments (it is actually what you are taught to think, or you would not be making such erroneous accusations which are not true, you would actually listen to what we say) yet all you can do is again tell him he is wrong in what he actually believes..

OK, well I try to avoid the topic with you, but since you've persisted, please answer this question. Can a person's behavior jeopardize their salvation?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

works based gospels. such as roman catholicism, believes in the death burial and ressurection of Christ.
Does that mean we should reject the cross. Because these false prophets and believers believe in it?

That is exactly what your doing. Just because a group may believe in something another groups says, does not make them like that group.

What you' and others are doing is rejecting association with gnostic beliefs that are identical with your beliefs by selecting gnostic beliefs that don't apply to you. That's a straw man because I never said those things apply to you.

Gnostics believed they could sin all they want, because it did not matter, what they did in the body was meaningless. So they excused their sin and could please themselves all they want, because it did not matter, it is the spiritual that mattered, and the spirit can not sin.

In terms of salvation, this is exactly what is taught by some here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you' and others are doing is rejecting association with gnostic beliefs that are identical with your beliefs by selecting gnostic beliefs that don't apply to you. That's a straw man because I never said those things apply to you.

And thats different, Should I call you roman catholic or eastern orthodox because you believe in the trinity and the cross? and say your believing in a false gospel like they do?

I fail to see why you do not see the point i made.

In terms of salvation, this is exactly what is taught by some here.

who? I keep seeing you make these accusations, but I have yet to see anyone teach it.

 

[FreeNChrist]

OK, well I try to avoid the topic with you, but since you've persisted, please answer this question. Can a person's behavior jeopardize their salvation?

I'm your huckleberry. Not a chance. Did being a sinner jeopardize getting saved? Nope. It is sinners that Jesus came for. That just made us His cup of tea.