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FreeNChrist
Guest
What I don't get is your unique understanding of the nature of God that seems contrary to the position of the RCC. Is that one of the RCC teachings that you alluded to not sharing with them?
The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace
- Thread starter HeRoseFromTheDead
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What I don't get is your unique understanding of the nature of God that seems contrary to the position of the RCC. Is that one of the RCC teachings that you alluded to not sharing with them?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Faith does not live and die, you either have it or you do not.
I do not believe in salvation apart from faith.
II do not believe faith can be lost. No one has every proven to me how a person who had faith in a living God who NEVER LET THEM DOWN, could ever lose faith completely to the point they lost all faith..
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
How do you know this. were you there? You can not prove any of this, period.
and your going to judge me based on this??
So pauls and johns and james witness to what the gnostics believed is irrevelant and meaningless. You would rather listen to what some man who came after them, who was not inspired by God says? and not the apostles themselves. who give us plently of information about what the gostics believed.
This makes utterly no sense.
You might as well. Your judging our gospel based on what a gnostic believed, and not on what the bible says..
and we do not even believe as they do, they rejected salvation by faith. We do not..
Hebrews makes pretty clear that some do indeed deny the faith. Things cannot be proven to those who don't want to hear what the bible plainly says.
I listened to Dr. Brown's talk about the gnostic view put forth here. He said Gnosticism was just starting back then when John wrote his epistle ( and the ret of the writings too ) and it became full blown by a 100 years later.
I reflected on that and all heresy has it's roots in truth. It is just a perversion of the truth.
The apostles were preaching that our inner man..our new creation in Christ was circumcised from our flesh. Paul called it the circumcision of Christ..of the flesh and of the heart.
Basically it's 2 sides of the same coin. This "apparent" schism from the body gives rise to all sorts of thoughts and in the unregenerate man - strange stuff can come out of that.
This is where it could "appear" to be somewhat in line with what the gnostics taught but it isn't....the teaching of the new creation in Christ has it's roots based on the finished work of Jesus...that the old man was crucified when Christ was crucified...and that now we have a new inner man of the heart created in righteousness and holiness.
So, people say this is gnostic teaching....It's kinda the same principal as people calling grace believers that we are saying it's ok to sin all we want. Paul was accused of the same thing. My point is we can always tell what is being preached by the opposition that comes against it....this truth was preached back in the apostles day..
This also explains John's scriptures....the new man in Christ..where Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit live..cannot sin..not once or 1,000 times...it's nature is of God .
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
I reflected on that and all heresy has it's roots in truth. It is just a perversion of the truth.
The apostles were preaching that our inner man..our new creation in Christ was circumcised from our flesh. Paul called it the circumcision of Christ..of the flesh and of the heart.
Basically it's 2 sides of the same coin. This "apparent" schism from the body gives rise to all sorts of thoughts and in the unregenerate man - strange stuff can come out of that.
This is where it could "appear" to be somewhat in line with what the gnostics taught but it isn't....the teaching of the new creation in Christ has it's roots based on the finished work of Jesus...that the old man was crucified when Christ was crucified...and that now we have a new inner man of the heart created in righteousness and holiness.
So, people say this is gnostic teaching....It's kinda the same principal as people calling grace believers that we are saying it's ok to sin all we want. Paul was accused of the same thing. My point is we can always tell what is being preached by the opposition that comes against it....this truth was preached back in the apostles day..
This also explains John's scriptures....the new man in Christ..where Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit live..cannot sin..not once or 1,000 times...it's nature is of God .
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
John plainly says that those who walk away fro God were never saved.
The bible can not contradict. Your belief makes it contradict.
so as you said.
"Things cannot be proven to those who don't want to hear what the bible plainly says"
No he didn't. He simply said they left because they weren't following the same doctrine.
There are some here who clearly believe that salvation is through grace apart from faith. Look at posts 2 and 3 of this thread.
I really don't see much difference in simply acknowledging that we have sinned and acknowledging that we have sinned and humbly saying we are sorry (forgiveness) within that acknowledgment. . . Why acknowledge it at all if you are not sorry that you did the wrong? If you are already forgiven why acknowledge anything at all? I apologize and I am not arguing for argument sake - I really don't see any difference . . . .
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FreeNChrist
Guest
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FreeNChrist
Guest
1 Cor 11:27-31
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
KJV
And there's how the Hyper-Grace philosophy of man falls flat... on its face, for Biblical repentance involves examining OURSELVES involving sin, and not just about discerning what Jesus did on the cross.
This applies to something I posted elsewhere. The old covenant priests were commanded to cleanse themselves while they worked so that they didn't die. Handling sacrifices for sin and walking on the earth defiled them even though they were holy. For this reason, they were commanded to cleanse themselves with water in the brass basin by the altar.
Thou shalt also make a laver [of] brass, and his foot [also of] brass, to wash [withal]: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein. For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat: When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD: So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, [even] to him and to his seed throughout their generations. Exodus 30:18-21
Likewise, in our service to GOD, we become defiled by the world or sin, and must continually be cleansed by the spirit, lest we die.
How this relates to your post is that approaching GOD in an unclean condition is just doing dead works.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
No, not "likewise" at all. That has nothing to do with us, but rather with Our high Priest, Jesus. Who is "holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever." Heb. 7
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, He said they left because they were never of us, If they were of us they would have stayed.
Where do you get this stuff??
What you hear won't cleanse you of failure to recognize when you sin and thinking you don't need to repent. Oh, excuse me, that word repent really is not in your vocabulary based on men's Hyper-Grace doctrines, is it?
No wonder so much sin is allowed to come right into Christ's Churches today. Apostle Paul would NEVER have put up with that kind of attitude in the Churches in his day:
2 Cor 12:21
21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.
KJV
1 Tim 5:20
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
KJV
I would also add that the sons of Aaron who offered "strange fire" =strange doctrine before the Lord, were consumed and devoured by the Lords fire. Those who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying in this.
Jeremiah 5:14
Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
Revelation 11:5
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
If you can't distinguish the difference in these verses about examining oneself like it says, then you are denying what that Scripture states, and I certainly cannot help you out of the brainwashing you've been manipulated into by men.
1 Cor 11:27-31
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
KJV
And that would be ...Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance
Hyper-grace preachers say there’s no need for repentance. They dismiss repentance as unbelief.” Actually, hyper-grace preachers are for repentance, not against it. We say things like “repentance is essential” and “repentance is to be our lifestyle.” We are for repentance, for without it no one can receive the grace of God.
But what is repentance?
Repentance is one of those words that means different things to different people. Those with a performance-oriented mindset typically interpret repentance as turning from sin. It’s something you do (turn) as a result of something you’ve done (sinned). It’s fixing what you broke. It’s atoning for your mistakes. It’s sewing fig leaves to hide your shame.
In contrast, faith-based repentance is always done in response to something God has done. It’s the change of heart and mind that happens when you encounter His grace.
A mixed-grace gospel will define repentance in terms of a prescribed set of behaviors (e.g., turning from sin) and emotions (e.g., sorrow and grief). But insisting on the proper way to repent is tantamount to putting people under law.
The fruit of repentance may take 101 different forms—don’t limit God—but repentance itself is simply a change of mind. It’s what the word literally means.
To see what believers in the grace of Christ really say about repentance..you can click the below link..it'll bless you.
Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance – Escape to Reality
Hyper-grace preachers say there’s no need for repentance. They dismiss repentance as unbelief.” Actually, hyper-grace preachers are for repentance, not against it. We say things like “repentance is essential” and “repentance is to be our lifestyle.” We are for repentance, for without it no one can receive the grace of God.
But what is repentance?
Repentance is one of those words that means different things to different people. Those with a performance-oriented mindset typically interpret repentance as turning from sin. It’s something you do (turn) as a result of something you’ve done (sinned). It’s fixing what you broke. It’s atoning for your mistakes. It’s sewing fig leaves to hide your shame.
In contrast, faith-based repentance is always done in response to something God has done. It’s the change of heart and mind that happens when you encounter His grace.
A mixed-grace gospel will define repentance in terms of a prescribed set of behaviors (e.g., turning from sin) and emotions (e.g., sorrow and grief). But insisting on the proper way to repent is tantamount to putting people under law.
The fruit of repentance may take 101 different forms—don’t limit God—but repentance itself is simply a change of mind. It’s what the word literally means.
To see what believers in the grace of Christ really say about repentance..you can click the below link..it'll bless you.
Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance – Escape to Reality