How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Perhaps what I have posted in my own OP will help some of you who may be at a loss in understanding the question or point put forth.

Many folks attempt to use Paul's letters in order to debunk obedience being necessary, even though we live in grace. Perhaps these folks will explain the following from the Epistles:


1Ti 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The law is NOT made for the righteous man, ratehr for the lawless and disobedient. Now by virture of the content of the quote and its meaning in proper regard, those who are righteous are not lawless nor are they disobedient.. Now being not lawless nor disobedient cannot be interpreted as anything other than what it states.

Righteous people, family in Christ, are obedient and they are lawful. This in absolutely NO manner says these people are "under the law," as those lacking in education of the Word would say. Please learn this, for your eternity does depend on knowing this in the heart, soul and mind.


why would they use just paul. They could also use John and the rest of the NT.

The lawless man is not saved The righteous man is saved. The law is not for those who are saved, they have had the law fullfilled in them through Christ.

I you read paul carefully, you see obedience is a result of salvation.

You on the other hand, make it a prerequisite. Which makes it a gospel of works. Good luck with that.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen!..obedience is a natural by product of the life of Christ in us....we love walking with our Lord!
remember, the legalist do not believe this, They think Obedience is necessary, or a pre-requisite to earn salvation. not a natural byproduct of being saved and empowered by God..
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I know...I wonder if they know that is what they are really saying?...they have been told the difference many, many times..but they still want to hold onto it for some strange reason..why not trust in Christ..His life will lead to obedience as a by product?..I don't get it...

remember, the legalist do not believe this, They think Obedience is necessary, or a pre-requisite to earn salvation. not a natural byproduct of being saved and empowered by God..
 
Nov 22, 2015
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“Because of your new identity in Christ, being yourself and expressing Christ are one and the same. God has arranged it so that our new self and our union with His Spirit cause us to want what He wants.

God has the market cornered on true fulfillment, and He has installed within us an intense and never-ending desire to find fulfillment through expressing His life.

Christ living through you is not a feeling. It’s not an emotional experience that you pursue. Having Christ live through you is really about knowing who you are and being yourself.

Since Christ is your life, your source of true fulfillment, you’ll only be content when you are expressing Him. As you express Him, you also express who God has made you to be.”
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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I know...I wonder if they know that is what they are really saying?...they have been told the difference many, many times..but they still want to hold onto it for some strange reason..why not trust in Christ..His life will lead to obedience as a by product?..I don't get it...
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
remember, the legalist do not believe this, They think Obedience is necessary, or a pre-requisite to earn salvation. not a natural byproduct of being saved and empowered by God..
Romans 8:31-34
[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Ezekiel 36:25-28

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.


Gods Work. And its a gift.
 
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KennethC

Guest
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:20

This verse means Paul is saying anything that is part of his ambitions or expectations are now dead. His whole motivation and dedication is to Jesus and following His lead.

Only a nutcase would say this actually means Jesus possesses someone like a demon, and it is Jesus in control.
If you think this is how Jesus works through His people you belong to the wrong Kingdom, because the Lord is about communion choosing fellowship, servant hood and connection.

Jesus saw what the Father was doing and did it. He obeyed the Fathers command and the Lord confirmed His approval of His son. We are called to walk with Him, filled with love truth and power as independent loving beings who chose to worship the Father and His Son, having fellowship with His Spirit within.

This in what you have just said is one of the reasons I dislike a number of these now day doctrines.......

They take away free will, choice, and talk in a way that makes us puppets on strings...........Nowhere does the bible (God's Word) take away free will or choice !!!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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We become obedient to the faith.. believing in Jesus..
I got to admire this deception.

Jesus said "If you obey my commands you love me."

The truth is hyper-grace do not agree. But it is more political to admit you obey believing in Jesus.
Funnily Jesus never commanded anyone to believe in Him, it is if you believe you will gain eternal life.

Now if people walk righteously through the inner man then amen, but this to me is just words or theology.
The key question is the standard is walk in righteousness to follow Jesus.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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and we are back again to...mis-representation ...here is a little teaching that may help you..again..

But for now I want to focus on obedience because too many of us have reduced the relationship that God desires to a set of rules. This can happen when we read, out of context, scriptures like this one:

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. (Joh 15:10)

Ouch! That looks like Jesus is preaching conditional love. Only he isn’t. Read the preceding verse:

As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. (Joh 15:9)

How does the Father love the Son? Un-conditionally! Before Jesus had done a blessed thing God said, “This is my beloved Son” (Mat 3:17).

See that? says Jesus. Do you see how my Father loves me? That’s how I love you. Jesus is preaching unconditional love. That’s good news! His love is a rock-solid fact you can build on. But you won’t have a rock-solid life unless you receive it. Hence the exhortation that follows:

Remain in my love. Abide, dwell, stay permanently in my love. Sink your roots deep and let nothing move you from my love. Don’t let the insecurity mob try and sell you my love. Look to the cross – you already have my love. Everything else will fail except my love for you. My love is the one constant that will hold your world together if you receive it, so receive it. Bask in it, bathe in it, swim in it, stay in it. (Joh 15:9, Paul’s paraphrase)

That’s good news, no? Come on – it’s great news! It’s the best, blessed news in the universe! It’s the news a loveless world most needs to hear. Perhaps you’ve heard it before but you need to preach this good news to yourself every single day. God loves me with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns! The cross proves he would rather die than live without me. And now that my Beloved is mine and I am his, he will never let me go!

Then, when you are secure in the foundation of verse 9, you can read verse 10, which I paraphrase like this: “Trusting me to the point of heeding what I say is a sure-fire sign you are remaining in my love.”

Do you see the distinction? It’s not about obedience vs. disobedience, but trust vs. distrust.

When you know the love of God you will trust and obey him naturally. But if you are not secure in his love any attempt to obey him will be unnatural and fruitless. Your relationship will have all the love and trust of a forced marriage.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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We are impure vessels washed clean, who from the heart desire to follow Jesus.

How do you show you are truly pure and washed, walk to the end of your life in faithfulness.

We are sinners imputed righteous, washed clean by redemption, and continual transformed by sanctification.
Our goal is to become like Christ through obedience to His Spirit at work in our hearts.

Though we have liberty of expression we are constrained by love, as expressed through the commands of God.

Obedience leads to righteousness, not of ourselves but Christ who works within us.

Hyper-grace would attempt to take away repentance and being aware of success and failure, in the hope of freeing people from self condemnation, rather than teaching them to view themselves as God views them in their faith.
acts 10, took away repentance.(gentile ie saved by grace a gift) if you would like to underline the part that say repent before etc.
history, shows your trying to preach like a non christian jew.(returning to law) ie using acts 2 as a template. (no, gentiles at acts 2) history again , come in and asks again context context context. etc

again acts 2 no gentile had been saved yet as acts 10 is about 10- 18 year later.

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2
 
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KennethC

Guest
and we are back again to...mis-representation ...here is a little teaching that may help you..again..

But for now I want to focus on obedience because too many of us have reduced the relationship that God desires to a set of rules. This can happen when we read, out of context, scriptures like this one:

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. (Joh 15:10)

Ouch! That looks like Jesus is preaching conditional love. Only he isn’t. Read the preceding verse:

As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. (Joh 15:9)

How does the Father love the Son? Un-conditionally! Before Jesus had done a blessed thing God said, “This is my beloved Son” (Mat 3:17).

See that? says Jesus. Do you see how my Father loves me? That’s how I love you. Jesus is preaching unconditional love. That’s good news! His love is a rock-solid fact you can build on. But you won’t have a rock-solid life unless you receive it. Hence the exhortation that follows:

Remain in my love. Abide, dwell, stay permanently in my love. Sink your roots deep and let nothing move you from my love. Don’t let the insecurity mob try and sell you my love. Look to the cross – you already have my love. Everything else will fail except my love for you. My love is the one constant that will hold your world together if you receive it, so receive it. Bask in it, bathe in it, swim in it, stay in it. (Joh 15:9, Paul’s paraphrase)

That’s good news, no? Come on – it’s great news! It’s the best, blessed news in the universe! It’s the news a loveless world most needs to hear. Perhaps you’ve heard it before but you need to preach this good news to yourself every single day. God loves me with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns! The cross proves he would rather die than live without me. And now that my Beloved is mine and I am his, he will never let me go!

Then, when you are secure in the foundation of verse 9, you can read verse 10, which I paraphrase like this: “Trusting me to the point of heeding what I say is a sure-fire sign you are remaining in my love.”

Do you see the distinction? It’s not about obedience vs. disobedience, but trust vs. distrust.

When you know the love of God you will trust and obey him naturally. But if you are not secure in his love any attempt to obey him will be unnatural and fruitless. Your relationship will have all the love and trust of a forced marriage.

Nobody is speaking against God's unconditional love toward us, that would be you miss-represented what others have said !!!

Lord Jesus said in both verses 9 and 10 "remain", because even though God's love is unconditional people can still reject His love and grace and thus not remain in Him.

This is where it seems to me hyper-grace teachers ignore or leave off, because they constantly spout "He will never leave us nor forsake us", but I rarely or never hear them speak on those who reject Him later in life.

Those who reject Him no matter when that rejection takes place will all lead to the same outcome, no eternal life !!!
 
Jan 27, 2013
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when was jesus talking to a gentile. born under the law of moses would mean jewish. not christian. ie christian is a believer in jesus christ, that he died , ............................ and now is back in heaven,etc and his apostles never got the holy spirit till pentecoste. so there must have been a reason, for going back to heaven, or he would have gave them the holy spirit before he went back.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I realize that is your religious views on the eternal security of the believer....you don't believe in it......I believe in Christ's word to me..I don't believe He is a liar....for me not to believe what He says..is calling Him a liar and it is unbelief on my part..so sorry..not playing your game.....that's ok....you are allowed to believe whatever you want..

here is a great scripture to live by...

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.



Nobody is speaking against God's unconditional love toward us, that would be you miss-represented what others have said !!!

Lord Jesus said in both verses 9 and 10 "remain", because even though God's love is unconditional people can still reject His love and grace and thus not remain in Him.

This is where it seems to me hyper-grace teachers ignore or leave off, because they constantly spout "He will never leave us nor forsake us", but I rarely or never hear them speak on those who reject Him later in life.

Those who reject Him no matter when that rejection takes place will all lead to the same outcome, no eternal life !!!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I realize that is your religious views on the eternal security of the believer....you don't believe in it......I believe in Christ's word to me..I don't believe He is a liar....for me not to believe what He says..is calling Him a liar and it is unbelief on my part..so sorry..not playing your game.....that's ok....you are allowed to believe whatever you want..
I realize that is your religious views on the eternal security of the believer....you believe unbelievers are saved who once believed......I believe in Christ's word to me..I don't believe He is a liar....for me not to believe what He says..is calling Him a liar and it is unbelief on my part..so sorry..not playing your game.....that's ok....you are allowed to believe whatever you want..

He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
John 15:2
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Jesus appears to be saying one thing, I save my own.
You know you are mine if you do what I have commanded.

It is not difficult to know when God is working in you, as you respond in love to His words and message.

What is a surprise is when believers claim it is so hard to have communion with Jesus when they are one with the Holy Spirit in their hearts, have this intimate relationship, travel to the 3rd heaven, speak with angels, yet doubt whether Jesus has saved them. I would suggest sin is so embedded in their lives they know the reality in the heart is far from what appears on the surface and continually their conscience is reminding them things are very wrong.

How do you silence the inner voice that says sort things out, when your heart says no I cannot and will not, but I want to believe in God, how can I resolve this torment? The answer is simple, repent and call out to Jesus.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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here is a grace--based teaching on the finished work oof Christ concerning this so-called " cut off " the branches..

What Happens to Unfruitful Branches?

Jesus said, “if you love me, you will keep my commandments” (Jn 14:15, NASB). In the hands of a religious person this becomes a conditional statement: You have to keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love. The problem with that, however, is the commands of Jesus are impossible to keep.

As we saw in our last post, Jesus said anyone who keeps His commands, “will do what I have been doing and even greater things.” Well Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead. Can you? On your own it’s impossible, but that’s okay because you know what? Jesus has a plan. In the very next verse He begins to tell us what it is:
“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, who will stay with you forever.” (Jn 14:16)

Who is the Helper? He’s the Holy Spirit, the One who empowers us to show and tell the gospel of the kingdom (Rms 15:19). (Note that the Holy Spirit doesn’t come and go. Jesus said He will “be with you forever”!) Jesus then tells the disciples that on the day that the Holy Spirit is given,

“… you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.” (Jn 14:20)

This is the most awesome, incredible thing in the world! This is the mystery that Paul sought to make known to the Gentiles – Christ is in you! And you’re in Him! Do you need a picture to help you see this? Then look at the picture on the right…
Jesus said He is the true vine and we are the branches.



Look at the picture and draw a mental circle around the vine. Do you see any branches that are not part of the vine? The vine is bigger than any branch but there’s no branch that is not also vine. Touch any branch and you are touching the vine. This is how Hudson Taylor describes it:

“Here, I feel, is the secret: not asking how I am to get sap out of the Vine into myself, but remembering that Jesus is the Vine – the root, stem, branches, twigs, leaves, flowers, fruit all indeed… I have not got to make myself a branch. The Lord Jesus tells me I am a branch. I am part of him and I have just to believe it and act upon it.” (Quoted in The Normal Christian Life, pp.56-7)

Now Jesus knows that you can’t bear fruit – “no branch can bear fruit by itself” (Jn 15:4) – but He plans to bear His fruit through us. What’s our part in this? He wants us to abide in Him, which means to dwell or stay put. It means don’t run off and try to do your own thing in your own strength.

What’s His part? He plans to live His life through us and go on healing the sick and delivering the oppressed and doing all the other heaven-on-earth things He did when He was here in the flesh (Mk 16:17-18).

Are you a branch with no fruit?

What happens to unfruitful branches? Jesus said the branches that don’t bear fruit are “lifted up” (Jn 15:2). They are not cut off – that is a bad translation that would’ve made no sense to a Mediterranean listener!

A viticulturalist would never throw away a branch for that would be like amputating part of the vine. (If you’re thinking of suckers, see my note in the comments below.) Unfruitful branches are lifted out of the dirt and re-dressed so they can be nourished by the sun. Sticking with that metaphor, the reason why some Christians are barren is that they’re facedown in the dirt and not looking at the Son.

They’re busy, distracted, stressed, and have wandered from their protos agape, their primary love. When believers lose sight of Christ’s love they tend to become religious, just like the Ephesians. The next thing you know, they’re thinking that they have do stuff like obey His commandments to prove their love or earn His.

What is the remedy for unfruitful branches? God is. He is the Gardener who does the lifting up. He is not there to slash and burn but to prune and lift. As you begin to bear fruit it will be for His glory, not yours.

If you’ve been distracted doing the dead works of religion, just stop and come back to your first love which is His love. His love is like food for us. We are energized by it. I might tell myself that I am writing these posts because of my love for Him, but in truth, it’s His love for me that compels me to tell others the good news. I would not love Him except that He has first loved me (1 Jn 4:19).

God believes in you!

When Jesus said, “if you love me, you will keep my commandments,” He was not making a threat but a promise! He was saying, “If you love me you will do the works and greater works that I have done because I’m the one who’s going to do them through you. Trust me! Believe in me! Abide in me!”

Why does Jesus say we will do greater works? Because 2000 years ago there was only one Christ, but now there are millions of Little Christs. Back then He was just a tender shoot (Is 53:2), but now He’s a mighty vine with branches reaching into every place.

Back then God lived in just one man, but now He lives in millions of men, women and children all around the world and He wants out! What are the greater works? They are the works of Jesus done millions of times over, every day, all over the world by ordinary branches like you and me.

Aren’t you amazed that God operates this way – through people? It’s like God is saying, “I believe in you. I have confidence that you will come to rest in my love and allow me to reveal myself to you and through you.”

Carnal religion says it’s all about you and your faith so you’d better perform, but the gospel of grace declares it’s about Him and His faith so rest!

Paul understood this which is why he said, “the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me” (Gal 2:20).

Branches can not bear fruit but vines can and do so naturally, without any effort. As a branch you carry the nature of the True Vine in you and He will bear His fruit through you. He promised! Do you believe Him?

At this point you probably want me to tell you what to do. “What’s the takeaway? What must I do?” We Christians are so hung up on working for God that we don’t know what to do with Jesus when He says, “just abide.” Okay, here’s something you can do.

Write this down. The next time you’re faced with a problem or trial, take a moment to let Jesus love on you. Allow the Lifter of your head to turn your gaze from the dirt back to Himself and then bask in His love. He is already shining on you. He has already been gracious to you and blessed you and given you His peace.

Receive it!

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.” (Jn 15:9)
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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and we are back again to...mis-representation ...here is a little teaching that may help you..again..

But for now I want to focus on obedience because too many of us have reduced the relationship that God desires to a set of rules. This can happen when we read, out of context, scriptures like this one:

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. (Joh 15:10)

Ouch! That looks like Jesus is preaching conditional love. Only he isn’t. Read the preceding verse:

As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. (Joh 15:9)

How does the Father love the Son? Un-conditionally! Before Jesus had done a blessed thing God said, “This is my beloved Son” (Mat 3:17).

See that? says Jesus. Do you see how my Father loves me? That’s how I love you. Jesus is preaching unconditional love. That’s good news! His love is a rock-solid fact you can build on. But you won’t have a rock-solid life unless you receive it. Hence the exhortation that follows:

Remain in my love. Abide, dwell, stay permanently in my love. Sink your roots deep and let nothing move you from my love. Don’t let the insecurity mob try and sell you my love. Look to the cross – you already have my love. Everything else will fail except my love for you. My love is the one constant that will hold your world together if you receive it, so receive it. Bask in it, bathe in it, swim in it, stay in it. (Joh 15:9, Paul’s paraphrase)

That’s good news, no? Come on – it’s great news! It’s the best, blessed news in the universe! It’s the news a loveless world most needs to hear. Perhaps you’ve heard it before but you need to preach this good news to yourself every single day. God loves me with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns! The cross proves he would rather die than live without me. And now that my Beloved is mine and I am his, he will never let me go!

Then, when you are secure in the foundation of verse 9, you can read verse 10, which I paraphrase like this: “Trusting me to the point of heeding what I say is a sure-fire sign you are remaining in my love.”

Do you see the distinction? It’s not about obedience vs. disobedience, but trust vs. distrust.

When you know the love of God you will trust and obey him naturally. But if you are not secure in his love any attempt to obey him will be unnatural and fruitless. Your relationship will have all the love and trust of a forced marriage.
Well in this
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. (John15:10)

What do you make of the whole "If you obey my commands" part? Does that not imply some choice on our part?

Now John 15:9 [SUP]9 [/SUP]“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.

Does not the "Now remain in my love" part sound also like a request? This also implies a choice on our part.

Now I agree with you so much on exactly what you're saying, but in BOTH your examples here I still see choice on our part, don't get me wrong I also feel that the only way we can do what He's asking is if the Spirit is in us, and that is also what leads us to WANT to do these things. I also honestly don't think it's possible to turn from them once we are regenerated by His power, but this text is implying we do still choose.

His free love is completely unconditional and unearned, but these verses are still implying a choice in my understanding of them, and one more time I personally can't see how anyone could ever turn from His unconditional love, as in I personally don't see it as possible, but even if one did it would be their choice NOT Gods. They would have chosen to turn away from Him, are you saying He wouldn't respect our free will and choice, or just once we truly have it we just couldn't choose to turn? I am actually inclined to agree with the latter, but on a technical level if I choose right now I didn't want to follow Jesus anymore, and wanted to go to hell then He would absolutely grant my request, or do you think I'd be dragged into heaven against my will? I can't say it enough that I do not feel it possible to turn from His love once we've felt it, but to clear up exactly what you're saying I ask. Thanks.
 
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Jan 27, 2013
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Jesus appears to be saying one thing, I save my own.
You know you are mine if you do what I have commanded.

It is not difficult to know when God is working in you, as you respond in love to His words and message.

What is a surprise is when believers claim it is so hard to have communion with Jesus when they are one with the Holy Spirit in their hearts, have this intimate relationship, travel to the 3rd heaven, speak with angels, yet doubt whether Jesus has saved them. I would suggest sin is so embedded in their lives they know the reality in the heart is far from what appears on the surface and continually their conscience is reminding them things are very wrong.

How do you silence the inner voice that says sort things out, when your heart says no I cannot and will not, but I want to believe in God, how can I resolve this torment? The answer is simple, repent and call out to Jesus.
have you a bible verse for repent.

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

said here to believe, not repent.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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If one is truly born again and sealed with the Holy Spirit...they will not want to go away from the Lord..it's in our nature..we have His nature now which is life.

We already activated our free will and we freely choose to be with Him...our new nature is to want to be with Him...we are a new creation in Christ now....we have His desires and life in us....it's wonderful!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Jimbone..maybe this might help as far as the "if" part.....

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" we use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder......:)
 
Jan 27, 2013
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he gave you a way to the rhema,(holy spirit), if your rooted in the logos, more that the rhema, then how can you contact to god, ie you think you already know, saying look follow me i know ware we are going. because it said here in the bible. etc

Ask, and It Will Be Given
7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! Matthew 7: Judging Others

so asking for the correct things is a must, not what we think that is needed, but what god knows that is needed

the rhema is a must. if your going to ask for the correct things.