How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

[PeterJens]

His strawman has been used for months, has been thoroughly refuted, and is useless. That is why it is a strawman.

When you use an argument you think supports your theories, and it is has been proven to be a faulty argument it is time to move on.

EG, EG, EG how many times do I need to explain to you. You obviously have some serious issues in your life.

Grace7x77 today gave an example of someone hating their brother. His example was 100% gnostic example.
It could not be plainer. But as you follow the same belief system, you are as blind as he is, and see no problems at all and we are the evil people.

The problem with such positions, is we will not convince each other the other is right, because these are deeply entrenched views. You, grace7x77 and FreeNChrist demonstrate all the brainwashed characteristics of a stuck mode of thought and unable to see anothers point of view.

Until you can come into my shoes and say, I see what you mean, there is no actual real communication. Now I can 100% understand what you are saying and emotionally why you cannot understand why I am not just automatically coming to your side.

But I am not a self condemned legalist wrapped with guilt and fear.

I am a victorious, rejoicing follower of Jesus, walking in righteousness given to me by Jesus. So I find in puzzeling your propositions and concepts.

What makes me laugh out loud is when you suggest I am a deluded hypocrite. A hypocrite has to be actually in sin, but you have been unable to show me this, so it is just slander, jealousy and contention. Funnily this is what you accuse me of, but I have no desire to go where you are, and can see the error of your theology and fruit.

 

[phil36]

Why is this person still here? he is a heretic and leading people straight to hell..

Being born again is just the starting of salvation?? WHAT???????????????????????????????????????????????????

If sin is what makes me dead, The penalty of sin must be removed for me to be made alive (born again)

That is the DEFENITION of BEING SAVED!!

I read him to mean that...salvation includes Justification being made right ----sanctification--walking that out-- and glorification ... if thats what he actually means he's right.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No it is not clear.

What is clear is yuo have some major issue and would rather discuss words of men, and not words of God to support your theories. And they are useless arguments.

Again, as I said before, Should I call you catholic, or say you are a heretic because you have catholic beliefs, even if your not catholic?

That would be a redundant ridiculous argument on my part. even though it is based on facts. it means nothing.

What is erroneous about your reasonings is that Irenaeus in Against Heresies contrasted gnostic beliefs with Church beliefs, so that we can know the difference, and know which is right. You are choosing to side with the gnostics. That is your right.

 

[Grace777x70]

again they have that big "IF"...you do this...IF you do that..IF you do what I think you need to do in order to maintain being born again..it's ridiculous...it is a works based religious mindset.....this is an example of "agreeing mentally " with Eph 2:8-9 but not in reality.....

Why is this person still here? he is a heretic and leading people straight to hell..

Being born again is just the starting of salvation?? WHAT???????????????????????????????????????????????????

If sin is what makes me dead, The penalty of sin must be removed for me to be made alive (born again)

That is the DEFENITION of BEING SAVED!!

 

[PeterJens]

Brainwashing

There is one simple way you can brainwash any individual. You take away all there reference points in life and replace them with only approved material. You condemn conscience or their past to determine what is good or bad.

Once you have someone like this, it is almost impossible to get through to them, because facts no longer matter, they only have one focus on everything. After years life often finally breaks through, work or things they actually care about, and their reference points shift back to what as humans we regard as normal.

Once identified you know what to expect from the washing machine.

Grace7x77 certainly appears to be 100% down this road.
EG certainly is, though he sometimes has glimers.
FreeNChrist sounds like he is bound up as well.

If you talk to JW's or Mormons you get the same run around.

If have read of guys who came out of these groups and it takes years to see the single track nature of reinterpreting everything to fit one train of thought.

One way to check that you have not become likewise indoctrinated is to take every concept and think of all the different ways it could be interpreted. Once you have understood them and know you freely chose a position it is your position and not brainwashing.

 

[skylove7]

EG, EG, EG how many times do I need to explain to you. You obviously have some serious issues in your life.

Grace7x77 today gave an example of someone hating their brother. His example was 100% gnostic example.
It could not be plainer. But as you follow the same belief system, you are as blind as he is, and see no problems at all and we are the evil people.

The problem with such positions, is we will not convince each other the other is right, because these are deeply entrenched views. You, grace7x77 and FreeNChrist demonstrate all the brainwashed characteristics of a stuck mode of thought and unable to see anothers point of view.

Until you can come into my shoes and say, I see what you mean, there is no actual real communication. Now I can 100% understand what you are saying and emotionally why you cannot understand why I am not just automatically coming to your side.

But I am not a self condemned legalist wrapped with guilt and fear.

I am a victorious, rejoicing follower of Jesus, walking in righteousness given to me by Jesus. So I find in puzzeling your propositions and concepts.

What makes me laugh out loud is when you suggest I am a deluded hypocrite. A hypocrite has to be actually in sin, but you have been unable to show me this, so it is just slander, jealousy and contention. Funnily this is what you accuse me of, but I have no desire to go where you are, and can see the error of your theology and fruit.

Brother dont bring Grace


Remorse!
Is the key.....

 

[phil36]

again they have that big "IF"...you do this...IF you do that..IF you do what I think you need to do in order to maintain being born again..it's ridiculous...it is a works based religious mindset.....this is an example of "agreeing mentally " with Eph 2:8-9 but not in reality.....

You a very mistaken grace777x70 'if' positional statemenst can be very true indeed

IF i eat to much food I will gain weight.

IF i drive my car over the speed limit and IF I get caught I will face the force of the law.

IF i confess my sin, God is faithful to forgive

 

[PeterJens]

Why is this person still here? he is a heretic and leading people straight to hell..

This is the fruit of hitting Hyper-grace brainwashed guys. The illusion is there is a conversation going on, but the lights are on but no one is at home.

An example is grace7x77 admitted we have built in responses to life, yet earlier he was in full denial about this reality and it had nothing to do with the gospel it was just humanistic philosophy.

The problem of polarisation is we become the enemy and whatever the enemy say you must disagree.

It gets wearing but that is why Praise in the Spirit helps and knowing who you are, staying grounded.

 

[KennethC]

I read him to mean that...salvation includes Justification being made right ----sanctification--walking that out-- and glorification ... if thats what he actually means he's right.

Yes it all goes together...........

The reason we end up with these many useless debates that goes nowhere and keeps having straw-man arguments and false accusations thrown around is because people want to pick apart the salvation in Christ and separate everything.

We can not do and we will not want to do that if we are abiding in our Lord !!!

 

[PeterJens]

Brother dont bring Grace
Remorse!
Is the key.....

Being honest at this level too many emotions and feelings. Dealing with people this far gone does your head in.
But glory to God, He is victorious in His glorious love to us in giving His son.

I know I am a miserable sinner saved by His love for me, and that cross is all I boast in for nothing in me is worthy more than that. I hope I can bring glory to His name by contributing, my heart certainly rejoices and I have learnt much in the Spirit.

So let us be encouraged to follow Jesus deeper into the Kingdom of His love.

 

[gb9]

o.k, I have thinking about this for a while, and I ask everyone to please consider this question: does Jesus save or, think about this please, or does Jesus provide a opportunity to be saved. seems to me this is at the heart of the these conversations.

 

[KennethC]

You a very mistaken grace777x70 'if' positional statemenst can be very true indeed

IF i eat to much food I will gain weight.

IF i drive my car over the speed limit and IF I get caught I will face the force of the law.

IF i confess my sin, God is faithful to forgive

Yes we are told in the Word of God to stand firm in sound doctrine, and not to be drawn away with itching ears doctrines that say soothing things seeming it is right when it really isn't.

God's love for us is not all soothing words as He gives tough love examples as well......

God's chastisement for one is not for destruction, it is always for correction and restoration. Destruction only comes to those if they continue to be disobedient and not follow Him.

What happens if we refuse that correction and continue to do our own thing ???

I have seen people who have spent a number of years believing that later turned away and stopped believing, what about their outcome ???

I can not go with the teaching that well because they were once in the faith then they are still saved even though they are not now. I can't because the bible does not say that, it actually says the opposite for one who does not continue in the faith !!!

 

[KennethC]

o.k, I have thinking about this for a while, and I ask everyone to please consider this question: does Jesus save or, think about this please, or does Jesus provide a opportunity to be saved. seems to me this is at the heart of the these conversations.

You are right when you said "heart" !!!

A person can have all the book knowledge, head knowledge, go to years of Seminary school or bible college. Yet all that will mean nothing if their heart does not belong to God.

A personal intimate relationship with the Lord and Savior Jesus is what we are to have, as believing in Him is a matter of the heart, mind, and soul.

People's demeanor, attitude, and what they do will be reflective of having this relationship with the Lord.

The whole talk that seems to come of those who act like obeying His teachings is impossible still who are suppose to be born again does not sit right with me.

We have the Holy Spirit (Christ) abiding in us directing and helping us, strengthening us where we are weak, and thus confirming us to His image meaning obeying His ways will come easier and easier as we grown and mature in the faith.

We do not remain idle in the faith !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, EG, EG how many times do I need to explain to you. You obviously have some serious issues in your life.

Grace7x77 today gave an example of someone hating their brother. His example was 100% gnostic example.
It could not be plainer. But as you follow the same belief system, you are as blind as he is, and see no problems at all and we are the evil people.

The problem with such positions, is we will not convince each other the other is right, because these are deeply entrenched views. You, grace7x77 and FreeNChrist demonstrate all the brainwashed characteristics of a stuck mode of thought and unable to see anothers point of view.

Until you can come into my shoes and say, I see what you mean, there is no actual real communication. Now I can 100% understand what you are saying and emotionally why you cannot understand why I am not just automatically coming to your side.

But I am not a self condemned legalist wrapped with guilt and fear.

I am a victorious, rejoicing follower of Jesus, walking in righteousness given to me by Jesus. So I find in puzzeling your propositions and concepts.

What makes me laugh out loud is when you suggest I am a deluded hypocrite. A hypocrite has to be actually in sin, but you have been unable to show me this, so it is just slander, jealousy and contention. Funnily this is what you accuse me of, but I have no desire to go where you are, and can see the error of your theology and fruit.

Again, I will not respond to gnostic crap anymore. Jesus said in the end times, Brother will hate brother. Brothers hate brothers all the time, that is not a gnostic tradition or Gnostic only trait. You just proved my point, Lets stick to the word to get our beliefs, not words of men..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I read him to mean that...salvation includes Justification being made right ----sanctification--walking that out-- and glorification ... if thats what he actually means he's right.

Oh?

So what does that have to do with one must be COMPLETELY SAVED, before they can be said to be borm again?

I am either alive to Christ (Born again) or dead because of sin.

there is no inbetween.

That is the whol eissue with legalism, it rejects the salvation of Christ, and inserts salvation of self.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes it all goes together...........

The reason we end up with these many useless debates that goes nowhere and keeps having straw-man arguments and false accusations thrown around is because people want to pick apart the salvation in Christ and separate everything.

We can not do and we will not want to do that if we are abiding in our Lord !!!

No thats not the problem

The problem is pride, Men refusing to get out of the way and save them, The pride that leads to licentiousness, and legalism, which if one looks at reality, are one in the sae, the only differnce is one plays religion, and the other plays the world..

The problem is people want to keep saving themselves. Reject the fact God cam eto save them, And fail to realise. Salvation, eternal life, Justification are all terms used to denote God has restored the fellowship to mankind destroyed by the sin of Adam, And made us alive in him,

Bt this restoration does not mean man is perfect in this life a process of growing in Christ and being more like him (called sanctification) must take place. and is an ongoing thing until one is glorified at the resurrection.

People like you try to mix gthe two together, when it is not what God meant it to me..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

o.k, I have thinking about this for a while, and I ask everyone to please consider this question: does Jesus save or, think about this please, or does Jesus provide a opportunity to be saved. seems to me this is at the heart of the these conversations.

You could be right,

There are those of us who say Jesus saves completely

then those of us who says jesus gives us the opportunity to be saved, But that salvation is not assured..

But sadly there is a third group. Who say Jesus saves, Whether I repent or not. all I have to do is believe.. I do not have to repent..

so as I think of it, your only partially right.

 

[phil36]

Oh?

So what does that have to do with one must be COMPLETELY SAVED, before they can be said to be borm again?

I am either alive to Christ (Born again) or dead because of sin.

there is no inbetween.

That is the whol eissue with legalism, it rejects the salvation of Christ, and inserts salvation of self.

Mmmm we are COMPLETELY saved.. Thats not legalism once born again you cannot be 'born again'. of course..sanctification plays the major role here oh what is tht again? its not a one time event like justification or glorification.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes we are told in the Word of God to stand firm in sound doctrine, and not to be drawn away with itching ears doctrines that say soothing things seeming it is right when it really isn't.

God's love for us is not all soothing words as He gives tough love examples as well......

God's chastisement for one is not for destruction, it is always for correction and restoration. Destruction only comes to those if they continue to be disobedient and not follow Him.

What happens if we refuse that correction and continue to do our own thing ???

I have seen people who have spent a number of years believing that later turned away and stopped believing, what about their outcome ???

I can not go with the teaching that well because they were once in the faith then they are still saved even though they are not now. I can't because the bible does not say that, it actually says the opposite for one who does not continue in the faith !!!

Thats the problem with trying to relate God into human terms. My father does not know my heart, Nor does he know me in a way that he can institute chastening in a way I will respond. He hopes I will respond, but there is no guarantee.

God is an all knowing God. He not only knows exactly what it will take for a child of his to respond (or else) he can inflict chastening that akes my dads chastening look like a walk in the park..

For those of us who have experienced it, We understand this, and realize, No one would EVER CONTINUE IN SIN WHEN GOD IS CHASTENING THEM..

But since you making God human, You can not comprehend that, And thus states the issue,, Our view of who and what God is are not the same.. thats why we can not agree.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mmmm we are COMPLETELY saved.. Thats not legalism once born again you cannot be 'born again'. of course..sanctification plays the major role here oh what is tht again? its not a one time event like justification or glorification.

well Ken, nor Peter believe we are completely saved, They believe salvation (justification) is not a one time event, but an ongoing process..

and herin lies the issue.