How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

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K

KennethC

Guest
#441
#441
Assurance of salvation is a guarantee for those who remain abiding in Christ, as that assurance is in Christ.

When a person stops abiding in Christ then that assurance is not there anymore, that is the issue people can not understand because they want to continue to lean on their own understanding instead of what the Word of God says.

The assurance of salvation is only while abiding in Christ and walking by/in the Spirit !!!

A person who is walking according to the flesh is not abiding in Christ or walking by the Spirit, and the bible gives multiple examples of those who depart from, do not continue, and fall away from the faith in Christ.

These are not a hypothetical or unrealistic situations that can not happen, if so it would not be stated in God's word that they do and will happen !!!
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#442
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#442
We are definitely to show outwardly what we are in our new creation in Christ. We do not do "holy" things to become holy. We do not do righteous deeds to become righteous. Doing these good deeds or actions are simply a "fruit" of our union with Christ.

As Peter says..

1 Peter 1:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

This is why we need to hear the gospel of the grace of Christ everyday so that we "become outwardly who we already are in Christ now"
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#443
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#443
Hi Kenneth,

I understand what you are saying, but it is a Justification issue. I don't see anywhere in scripture where you can lose that justification, because it is not yours to lose in the first place.

However, it does tie in closely with sanctification. if you do not walk the walk in obedience to the word and say that you no longer abide in Christ, then I would say that that person was never justified in the first place.

which leads us nicely back to sanctification... where we have a part to play. this is where both legalists and hyper grace go of the rails on either side.
 
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K

KennethC

Guest
#444
#444
phil36 said:
All I can say is thats their loss of comfort in assurance.

Assurance of salvation is a different debate (its a justification area) than what actually is being discussed and that is of hyper grace..which is mainly a sanctification issue and is where people have went wrong in their reaction against legalism... legalism and hyper grace are both extremes and both in error. (I realise that they do intertwine etc).
Click to expand...

E.G. constantly lies on me which is why I have him on ignore........

I am not a legalist nor is he right that I don't believe in assurance of salvation.

The problem that E.G. has with me is that I speak on the assurance of salvation in the manner of how it is placed in the Word of God.

Jesus, Paul, James, and John all show it clear that the assurance comes from our walk in the faith, as our deeds will be reflective of the faith we have in Jesus.

If we walk around with hatred toward others then the Truth is not in us...........Apostle John showed this as well as a number of other things that said if you are acting this way then eternal life does not abide in you.

Apostle James said a hearer only but not a doer is deceived.......

Apostle Paul said to examine ourselves (means our actions) to make sure we are of the faith...........

Some want to separate the walk from the faith itself which can not be done, but thus by doing so places a dangerous road that can branch off the narrow path and lead to the broad ways of destruction.

Do you think a person who always has constant hatred toward others is saved in Christ ???? John gives us the answer as he says no, for if they were of God they would love because God is love !!!
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#445
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#445
I always find the assurance debate futile. If you are saved, certain to go to be with the Lord from the beginning of time, why do you need assurance, it will not change the inevitable.
Equally if you are lost, doomed to destruction, any reassurance is a lie, and can be used to make things worse.

If we knew who the weeds were and were not we would get very upset and confused. This is why it is irrelevant. What matters is progress and transformation. If people were saved they would understand what I am saying. My only conviction is those who distract from reality are not sent by the Lord. The Lords messengers honour Him and righteousness.

I would suggest those who desire certainty when their consciences tell them there are issues they need to address, once addressed the Lords peace will return to their hearts. It is not a difficult equation of conviction, repentance and obedience.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#446
Jan 18, 2011
12,327
6,694
113
#446
KennethC said:
Assurance of salvation is a guarantee for those who remain abiding in Christ, as that assurance is in Christ.

When a person stops abiding in Christ then that assurance is not there anymore, that is the issue people can not understand because they want to continue to lean on their own understanding instead of what the Word of God says.

The assurance of salvation is only while abiding in Christ and walking by/in the Spirit !!!

A person who is walking according to the flesh is not abiding in Christ or walking by the Spirit, and the bible gives multiple examples of those who depart from, do not continue, and fall away from the faith in Christ.

These are not a hypothetical or unrealistic situations that can not happen, if so it would not be stated in God's word that they do and will happen !!!
Click to expand...
so you have to get up every day, dot every I cross every t, etc.. to maintain right standing before God. um, this is 100% works Salvationism , not to mention the never entering into joy because you are never REALLY sure if You are REALLY saved. this, ken, is what I was referring to earlier. really off-base personal theology.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#447
#447
phil36 said:
Hi Kenneth,

I understand what you are saying, but it is a Justification issue. I don't see anywhere in scripture where you can lose that justification, because it is not yours to lose in the first place.

However, it does tie in closely with sanctification. if you do not walk the walk in obedience to the word and say that you no longer abide in Christ, then I would say that that person was never justified in the first place.

which leads us nicely back to sanctification... where we have a part to play. this is where both legalists and hyper grace go of the rails on either side.
Click to expand...

The bible speaks of those who depart from the faith in Christ, and it states that only if they are restored will they be saved at the time of glorification (Christ's return).

Apostle Paul speaks on salvation in Christ in the terms of running a race, he states it is an ongoing process, not one that is already completed. Paul says we must complete the race and keep the faith to receive the promise !!!

The assurance of salvation is only there when we are abiding in Christ, standing firm in the faith, keeping with sound doctrine, and above all else walking in love !!!


Without love the faith we would have is a dead faith with no power to save through Jesus, only the truth faith that is abounding in love has power to save in Jesus...........
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#448
#448
phil36 said:
All I can say is thats their loss of comfort in assurance.

Assurance of salvation is a different debate (its a justification area) than what actually is being discussed and that is of hyper grace..which is mainly a sanctification issue and is where people have went wrong in their reaction against legalism... legalism and hyper grace are both extremes and both in error. (I realise that they do intertwine etc).
Click to expand...
Gods grace IS extreme. It's not to be avoided, but embraced!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#449
#449
gb9 said:
so you have to get up every day, dot every I cross every t, etc.. to maintain right standing before God. um, this is 100% works Salvationism , not to mention the never entering into joy because you are never REALLY sure if You are REALLY saved. this, ken, is what I was referring to earlier. really off-base personal theology.
Click to expand...
This again is where you are wrong as usual because I am very joyful in the standing I have in Christ, because if it weren't for Him I would not have learned to put away a number of sinful behaviors I once had.

I thank Him everyday for the growth and maturity He gives me, and the strength He has supplied to me to overcome some of the most trying times in my life.

You act as those who speak on the works of the faith as not having any joy, and you do this because you think we are doing it to maintain or earn something. That is completely not true, we do it because we love our Lord and trust in Him to do as He said, and if we are not perfect at doing it all the time He will continue to help us to overcome and get to the point we can.

We do not walk around with a defeated mindset, we count it all joy through Him we can accomplish what He leads us to do !!!
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#450
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#450
gb9 said:
so you have to get up every day, dot every I cross every t, etc.. to maintain right standing before God. um, this is 100% works Salvationism , not to mention the never entering into joy because you are never REALLY sure if You are REALLY saved. this, ken, is what I was referring to earlier. really off-base personal theology.
Click to expand...
GOD's enduring grace through the covenant takes that insecurity away from us.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#451
#451
PeterJens said:
I always find the assurance debate futile. If you are saved, certain to go to be with the Lord from the beginning of time, why do you need assurance, it will not change the inevitable.
Equally if you are lost, doomed to destruction, any reassurance is a lie, and can be used to make things worse.

If we knew who the weeds were and were not we would get very upset and confused. This is why it is irrelevant. What matters is progress and transformation. If people were saved they would understand what I am saying. My only conviction is those who distract from reality are not sent by the Lord. The Lords messengers honour Him and righteousness.

I would suggest those who desire certainty when their consciences tell them there are issues they need to address, once addressed the Lords peace will return to their hearts. It is not a difficult equation of conviction, repentance and obedience.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't be futile though because assurance of eternal life is mentioned all throughout the NT, and Paul gives the majority of the scriptures speaking on this assurance.

Apostle Paul even states in the "hope of eternal life" form a couple of times, and shows that Romans 2:7 by patient continuance in doing good we seek for eternal life !!!

Apostle John in 1 John 2-4 speaks on the Christian walk and shows how you are walking determines if Christ/Truth and eternal life is abiding in you or not !!!
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#453
#453
phil36 said:
I totally agree.... :) and I think you will all christians believing that :)
Click to expand...
Let me help you out. Legalsm isn't an extreme, it's just totally wrong. There is no Christianity with legalism. Whereas Grace is extreme, and is everything that is right. There is no Christianity without grace.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#454
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#454
It's impossible not to be a Christian and at least make mental assent to grace.....perhaps the difference is in what does this grace in Christ really entail?..which of course means different things to different people..to those that believe you can lose your salvation....they view scripture through a different "lens"...then those that are called OSAS ers...it's funny I did not hear that term until I came on CC..

This causes the same endless...fruitless conversations as both have different "lens" of seeing scripture....each of us say that we are using the words of God...and of course our all time favorite one is...balance....we need balance..there is no balance in the true grace on God..it is scandalous and offensive to some religious mindsets....always has been and always will be..it's the nature of the beast..Jesus encountered it constantly....

Some people are not on here to learn from each other...they are here to attack a belief that is different from theirs....and if you don't agree with them....you are a heretic or false teacher....you are of satan or whatever derogatory statement they can come up with..

Most of these "discussions" are completely useless which is why I cut and paste teaching so that others coming here can see a grace-based view of scriptures and then allow the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to them..

Most of my posts are not for the ones arguing against the so-called grace message ( which it is not a message..it's the reality of the Person of Christ in our lives )..it's for the ones that are wanting to grow in the knowledge and grace of our Lord Jesus. I trust the Holy Spirit in them to reveal Jesus and the things of God to them ...He is faithful and can be trusted!
 
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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#455
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#455
FreeNChrist said:
Let me help you out. Legalsm isn't an extreme, it's just totally wrong. There is no Christianity with legalism. Whereas Grace is extreme, and is everything that is right. There is no Christianity without grace.
Click to expand...

Ohh, I agree I would say extremely wrong...and all christians bask in God's grace no matter what you want to call it amen amen.. yet the errors of legalism and the ''Hyper grace movement are extremely wrong?

Christians have always believed that... (there has been exceptions) :) :)


so I can't see how you have heled me out freeNchrist???
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#456
#456
phil36 said:
Ohh, I agree I would say extremely wrong...and all christians bask in God's grace no matter what you want to call it amen amen.. yet the errors of legalism and the ''Hyper grace movement are extremely wrong?

Christians have always believed that... (there has been exceptions) :) :)


so I can't see how you have heled me out freeNchrist???
Click to expand...
.........*sigh
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#458
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#458
How to Recognize the Hyper-Grace Gospel

The hyper-grace gospel declares that God’s love for you is unconditional and His grace is superabounding. It’s the how much mores that Jesus spoke of and the grace upon grace that John wrote of.

The hyper-grace gospel is easy to recognize for it is nothing more than boasting about Jesus—who He is and what He has done and what you can now do because of what He has done. If the message you’re hearing causes you to fix your eyes on Jesus, and moves you to shout for joy and give thanksgiving and praise for all He has done, chances are you’re hearing the hyper-grace gospel.

While a mixed-grace gospel is recognized by the presence of carrots and sticks, the hyper-grace gospel is marked by invitations. Here’s one:

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” (Matt. 11:28)

Here’s another:

“I want to come in and be with you.” (Rev. 3:20)

A mixed-grace gospel drives people with the law, but the hyper-grace gospel draws them with love. This is how Martin Luther distinguished the two messages:

A lawdriver insists with threats and penalties; a preacher of grace lures and incites with divine goodness and compassion shown to us; for He wants no unwilling works and reluctant services, He wants joyful and delightful services of God.

In a quest for holiness a mixed-grace preacher may preach a little law, a little self-help, or a little pop psychology, but it’s all just a flesh trip. In contrast, a hyper-grace preacher preaches Christ alone. Whatever your need, whether it’s salvation or sanctification, your supply is found in the One who promises to meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus (Php. 4:19).

It is essential that you learn how to distinguish the hyper-grace gospel from the many mixed-grace messages that may distract you from it. To help you do this, I have prepared a table showing 20 differences between the mixed- and hyper-grace gospels that you can print out and keep in your Bible.

The hyper-grace gospel is simple. You don’t need to read Hebrew or Greek to get it. Nor do you need to go to seminary or Bible school. To paraphrase Joseph Prince, the hyper-grace gospel is so simple it takes theologians to complicate it.

The hyper-grace gospel is the revelation of Jesus.

It is the announcement that He is the beginning and the end, the first word and the last. It is the confident assurance that He who has begun a good work in you will carry it on unto completion. It is the happy revelation that in Christ, your searching is over and you have found your eternal resting place. In Him, you are already home.

Jesus is the hyper-grace gospel!
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#459
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#459
Grace777x70 said:
How to Recognize the Hyper-Grace Gospel

The hyper-grace gospel declares that God’s love for you is unconditional and His grace is superabounding. It’s the how much mores that Jesus spoke of and the grace upon grace that John wrote of.

The hyper-grace gospel is easy to recognize for it is nothing more than boasting about Jesus—who He is and what He has done and what you can now do because of what He has done. If the message you’re hearing causes you to fix your eyes on Jesus, and moves you to shout for joy and give thanksgiving and praise for all He has done, chances are you’re hearing the hyper-grace gospel.

While a mixed-grace gospel is recognized by the presence of carrots and sticks, the hyper-grace gospel is marked by invitations. Here’s one:

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” (Matt. 11:28)

Here’s another:

“I want to come in and be with you.” (Rev. 3:20)

A mixed-grace gospel drives people with the law, but the hyper-grace gospel draws them with love. This is how Martin Luther distinguished the two messages:

A lawdriver insists with threats and penalties; a preacher of grace lures and incites with divine goodness and compassion shown to us; for He wants no unwilling works and reluctant services, He wants joyful and delightful services of God.

In a quest for holiness a mixed-grace preacher may preach a little law, a little self-help, or a little pop psychology, but it’s all just a flesh trip. In contrast, a hyper-grace preacher preaches Christ alone. Whatever your need, whether it’s salvation or sanctification, your supply is found in the One who promises to meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus (Php. 4:19).

It is essential that you learn how to distinguish the hyper-grace gospel from the many mixed-grace messages that may distract you from it. To help you do this, I have prepared a table showing 20 differences between the mixed- and hyper-grace gospels that you can print out and keep in your Bible.

The hyper-grace gospel is simple. You don’t need to read Hebrew or Greek to get it. Nor do you need to go to seminary or Bible school. To paraphrase Joseph Prince, the hyper-grace gospel is so simple it takes theologians to complicate it.

The hyper-grace gospel is the revelation of Jesus.

It is the announcement that He is the beginning and the end, the first word and the last. It is the confident assurance that He who has begun a good work in you will carry it on unto completion. It is the happy revelation that in Christ, your searching is over and you have found your eternal resting place. In Him, you are already home.

Jesus is the hyper-grace gospel!
Click to expand...
That is very good!!!
 
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