What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

VCO · Jan 13, 2016

The songs of Past, will give you great insight into how the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ, used to be TAUGHT:

[video=youtube;U9R5bQhxnTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9R5bQhxnTM[/video]

Goodnewsman · Jan 14, 2016

can you please tell me how you came to the conclusion that I'm having difficulty defining "how I know I'm born again?"

I am amazed at how many of you on this thread don't believe you can lose your salvation but as soon as somebody doesn't believe in unconditional eternal security you start questioning there salvation. (AMAZING)

YOU SAY JUDAS WAS SAVED? BUT JESUS SAID HE WAS

here is the replacement of Judas
Acts 1:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell,

sir, how do you "fall" from something if you never was apart of it? he fell by transgression.

Jesus said Judas was LOST in book of John
John 17:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

if Judas was not saved how could he have "fallen" (acts 1)

if Judas wasn't saved there is no reason to believe the any of the others were

are you telling me Jesus gave Judas the Holy Ghost to cast out devil and heal the sick and he never was saved?

Jesus gave Judas the power to lay hands on the sick and see them recover.........but he wasn't saved?

Judas travelled farther than any other disciple to be a disciple.......but he wasn't saved?

Judas cast out devils (see matthew 10:1)........but he wasn't saved?

mark 3:23 says satan cannot cast out satan........if Judas wasn't saved, how did he cast out devils?

wow! who am I to believe? I think i'll stick with Jesus on this this one

VCO said:

I noticed that you had difficulty, remembering and defining "How you know you are Born Again"; something every single Born Again Christian should be able to do EASILY. Why do I say that, because those kind of memories should remain FRESH in our minds every time we worship. I frequently have tears flowing in Church, as we sing certain songs, remembering HOW HE SAVED ME. But there is more to it than that:

Do you hunger and thirst for more understanding in His word, or are you content with what you think you know?
Do you mourn when you hear someone denying Jesus?
Do you Love all the brethren, or only those from your denomination?
Does HE SPEAK TO YOUR HEART, as you read HIS WORD?
Do you desire do SERVE HIM, purely out of LOVE for HIM?
Do you LOVE JESUS more than anyone else, including your spouse?
Do you LONG to go home to be with Jesus in Heaven?
Do you sense a born again Christian near you (spirit ministering to spirit) before you ever talk to him or her?
Do you ever wake up finding you human spirit is already singing gospel songs in your heart?
Do you KNOW you really have a serious inner and very personal, LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ?

Here is what it says in 1 John:

1 John 2:3-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

AND may I point out, JUDAS NEVER WAS SAVED, he followed Jesus for financial gain, and an important position in the Kingdom. Following Jesus for any reason other than LOVE FOR HIM, is of no value to GOD, and does not equate to Salvation. When Judas figured out that Jesus was NOT going set up His Kingdom at that time, Judas sold Jesus for a few pieces of Silver, so as not to leave empty handed. Remember Judas carried the purse for the Disciples, his focus always was on the money. NOTICE, that in Young's Literal Translation, it calls Judas the Son of the Destruction. That is because Judas was the ONLY ONE that came through the Broad Gate that leads to Destruction and NOT through the NARROW GATE that leads to genuine Salvation. ONLY those who come through that NARROW GATE are Saved and will be Called to Heaven when our Bridegroom sends the Archangel to Call Us out.

John 17:12 (YLT)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] when I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in Thy name; those whom Thou hast given to me I did guard, and none of them was destroyed, except the son of the destruction, that the Writing may be fulfilled.

LOOK at what happens when we do ABIDE IN HIM, HE is the ONE that holds on to our Salvation, HE is the ONE Who brings us to FULL Maturity, continually molding us to be more and more like HIM. Therefore what YOU call walking away from abiding in HIM, only VALIDATES that you NEVER REALLY WERE IN HIM.

1 John 2:19 (GW)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They left us. However, they were never really part of us. If they had been, they would have stayed with us. But by leaving they made it clear that none of them were part of us.

John 15:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

Jude 1:24-25 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
NOT ONE PERSON ON THE BROAD ROAD IS REALLY SAVED (BORN AGAIN), AND NOT ONE PERSON ON THE NARROW ROAD WILL WALK AWAY FROM CHRIST WHO IS IN THEIR HEARTS CONTROLLING THEIR LIVES.

Philippians 1:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

John 10:28-30 (NKJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. {Not even SELF.}
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and My Father are one."No, your theology does not square with what the Scriptures actually say.

The problem, is the majority of Churches no longer teach the GOSPEL the way it was taught when I was growing up in the Bible Belt of America. The way it was taught, for all the centuries before, is there is NO TURNING BACK, if you truly made that decision to FOLLOW JESUS. Now, in this world of ENTERTAIN ME congregations, fewer and fewer actually make that total surrender to JESUS. I am sorry, but that easy believism gospel, is a FALSE GOSPEL, that does not SAVE, and ushers their followers onto the BROAD ROAD that leads to Destruction, that is why they appear to walk away from Jesus. THEY ENTERED THE WRONG GATE.

REMEMBER: Jesus is the Potter, we are but only the clay. It JESUS who is continually molding us, if we really were saved in the first place.

<strong>[video=youtube;55eESzdyPoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55eESzdyPoY[/video]

fredoheaven · Jan 14, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

Hi sir Goodnewsman,

Just jumping in because I still need to cope up with the thread and a simple maybe a personal question. Don't you really believe in the eternal security of the believers?

Thanks,

Grace777x70 · Jan 14, 2016

How does one get saved or born-again without Jesus dying on the cross and being resurrected? How do we as Christians die on the cross with Christ and then be raised up from the dead with Christ..before He actually doses it?....How do we get a new heart and a new creation in our inner man?..How do we get sealed with the Holy Spirit after we believed?

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

.your reasoning for Judas being saved like a Christian before Christ even dies on the cross is unfounded by any stretch of the imagination by scripture. I understand the need to believe that if one thinks he can undo Jesus' work for us and lose one's salvation bought by the precious blood of Jesus.....

Goodnewsman;2440969 [SIZE=4 said:

VCO · Jan 14, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

Once again, the SCRIPTURE says he LOST his position as a "sent one" (Apostle), he NEVER had SALVATION.

NOW, think this through. Born Again is when the Holy Spirit enters the heart of the Believer.
When did the Holy Spirit ENTER the Disciples, before or after Judas hung himself?

Disciples means: learners or students.

Apostles means: sent ones

Now did the 12 choose HIM, or did HE choose them?

John 6:70-71 (NKJV)
[SUP]70 [/SUP] Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"
[SUP]71 [/SUP] He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

So why would Jesus choose one that HE new was controlled by the Devil?

Judas always was lost from the time Christ chose him on.

John 17:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] While I was with them, I was protecting them by Your name that You have given Me. I guarded them and not one of them is lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture may be fulfilled.

Matthew 26:56 (HCSB)
[SUP]56 [/SUP] But all this has happened so that the prophetic Scriptures would be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted Him and ran away.

Matthew 26:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The Son of Man will go just as it is written about Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”

Why do we doubt if you were truly born again? Because we believe what that Bible Says, and you teach contradictions. I have pointed out SEVERAL, but it does not seem to bother you that (for example) that JESUS says He gave them Eternal Life and they would NEVER perish, which your theology definitely contradicts. We believe the Holy Spirit gives us spiritual understanding of the Scriptures, while you seem to believe something else.

As I was about to say about Mat. 10:1, you claimed it said Judas was SAVED, and JUDAS did Miracles; I do not see that anywhere in that verse. Only that he was one of the 12 chosen learners, who were sent out two by two on a mission. I know modern day Charismatics like think they possess powers to do miracles. but WHO was doing the MIRACLES THAT THE APOSTLES DID?

Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.

OH MY, it was not the apostles possessing the wielding the POWER, like a famous false prophet supposedly does on TV when he waves his cape and people fall down. IT ALWAYS WAS THE LORD WORKING THE SIGN GIFTS THROUGH THEM TO CONFIRM THE WORD.

SO since JUDAS did not live to receive the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, HE CERTAINLY WAS NEVER BORN AGAIN. DID Judas do miracles? It does not say, but I highly doubt it, because CHRIST sent them out in pairs, and therefore it could have been Simon the Zealot doing the miracles when he was paired with JUDAS. Since it was the LORD DOING THOSE MIRACLES, couldn't he have done some through Judas. Sure, HE used Balaam's donkey didn't he:

Numbers 22:28 (RSV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Then the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?"

Oh, just so you know, that donkey was not saved either.

Grace777x70 · Jan 14, 2016

Good one...the donkey was not saved...lol..that made me laugh brother..thanks!

seed_time_harvest · Jan 14, 2016

Very good back and forth and very informative.

Goodnewsman said:

VCO said:

Grace777x70 · Jan 14, 2016

Are you not concerned about that donkey not being saved?....

seed_time_harvest said:

VCO · Jan 14, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

The lack of this:

Acts 13:52 (ASV)
[SUP]52 [/SUP] And the disciples were filled with joy with the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 3:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but honor the Messiah as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.

Goodnewsman · Jan 15, 2016

I don't believe in unconditional eternal security. No sir. Do you?

Goodnewsman · Jan 15, 2016

I'm n ky preaching a revival with very little internet service. Lord willing I will be to the land of the living Monday and look forward to answering your questions. I would ask for prayer but since you dont even think I'm saved, I doubt you will. LOL

VCO · Jan 15, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

Ephesians 2:4-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

2 Corinthians 12:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Colossians 1:22 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But now He has reconciled you by His physical body through His death, to present you holy, faultless, and blameless before Him—

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

fredoheaven · Jan 15, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

Hi,

15 Bible Passages – a must eliminate if eternal life or salvation can be lost discontinued or delayed even momentarily.

1. I am a fellow heir (Eph. 3:6).
2. I am rich because of Christ (2 Cor. 8:9; Rev. 2:9).
3. I am blessed with every spiritual blessing (Eph. 1:3).
4. I have obtained an inheritance (Eph. 1:11, 14; Heb. 1:14; 9:15; 1 Pet. 1:4).
5. I have been appointed to obtain salvation (1 Thess. 5:9; Heb. 1:14).
6. I am His inheritance (Eph. 1:18).
7. I am a partaker of His promise in Christ by the gospel (Eph. 3:6).
8. I am a new creature (creation) in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:10; 4:24; Col. 3:10).
9. I have been renewed by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).
10. I am accepted and highly favored in the Beloved One (Eph. 1:6; cf. Matt. 3:17).
11. I have been seated in heavenly places with Christ (Eph. 2:6).
12. I am to the praise of His glory (Eph. 1:6, 12).
13. I am light in the Lord (Eph. 5:8).
14. I am a child of light (Eph. 5:8; 1 Thess. 5:5).
15. I am a "peculiar person," even God's special, purchased possession (Titus 2:14; 1 Pet. 2:9).

God bless,

fredoheaven · Jan 15, 2016

Goodnewsman said:

Question is, who gather these fruitless branches and burn them? The one who gathers these fruitless branches is not God but men, thus this is not in reference to salvation but fruit-bearing and testimony.

The simple answer to the book of John 15 together with I John 5 as contrasted with 2 John though the word "abide" or "abideth" was reference to lies in the difference of "in me (Christ) and "in the doctrine of Christ". Things that are different are not the same.

God bless

VCO · Jan 15, 2016

fredoheaven said:

Here is another verse that the theology of losing our salvation would eliminate:

Galatians 1:6-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ ⌊and are turning⌋ to a different gospel—
[SUP]7 [/SUP] not that there is another ⌊gospel⌋, but there are some who are troubling you and want to change the good news about the Messiah.

VCO · Jan 16, 2016

VCO said:

How about these:

1 Corinthians 6:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Mark 9:40-41 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For he who is not against us is for us.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.

1 Peter 1:8-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] You love Him, though you have not seen Him. And though not seeing Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with inexpressible and glorious joy,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] because you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that would come to you searched and carefully investigated.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] They inquired into what time or what circumstances the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating when He testified in advance to the messianic sufferings and the glories that would follow.

Here is the primary problem, with the false Theology that teaches one can lose his Salvation. Salvation is NOT something that can be EARNED or KEPT by works, because GRACE IS A FREE GIFT UNEARNED. IF YOU HAVE SALVATION, the Holy Spirit poured the GOD'S LOVE directly into your Heart, Rom. 5:5. IF GOD'S LOVE IS IN YOUR HEART, it is HIS LOVE that will KEEP you LOVING HIM, and genuine LOVE for GOD is an ongoing desire and striving to OBEY HIM. NO, IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE DO OUT OF OUR STRENGTH. IT IS CHRIST IN US THAT KEEPS US ON THE RIGHT PATH, CONTINUALLY MATURING SPIRITUALLY AS WE BECOME MORE AND MORE LIKE HIM. STOP TRYING TO DO IT YOURSELF, AND TRUST HIM TO DO IT THROUGH YOU, AND YOU WILL NOT STUMBLE.

Galatians 2:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

A Theology that teaches you can lose your Salvation IS NOT TEACHING PEOPLE TO TRUST IN CHRIST, they are teaching them to trust in self and the their works performed out of their own strength.

DP · Jan 17, 2016

So our Lord Jesus lied when He showed how there will be foolish virgins that didn't have a spare vessel of the Oil in preparation for His coming? (Matt.25)

Apostle Paul lied in 2 Cor.11 too huh, when he warned about listening to those with another gospel and heeding another spirit?

Many brethren already are not strong enough spiritually today to withstand the coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem in the last days to work miracles and wonders on earth they will think only God could do, and thus their leaders that have misled them will guide their whole congregations to accept that coming false one as our Lord Jesus, when it will NOT be our true Lord Jesus, but an imposter (Matt.24:23-26; 2 Cor.11; 2 Thess.2:4; Rev.13:11 forward).

VCO · Jan 17, 2016

DP said:

NO, you do not understand. Claiming to be a Christian, joining Church, and attending Services regularly; DOES NOT MAKE YOU A GENUINE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. Receiving the HOLY SPIRIT IN YOUR HEART, having HIM POUR GOD's LOVE directly into your heart (Rom. 5:5), which will produce a DESIRE to show LOVE for HIM by surrendering control of your life to JESUS as MASTER (which is what the word LORD means); IS WHAT MAKES YOU A REAL CHRISTIAN.

In this day and age, an easy believism FALSE GOSPEL has been spreading like Wild Fire. It says if you acknowledge who JESUS is, you are CHRISTIAN. That is a lie, and even the 2000 demons in the demoniacs at Gadara believed that much, and bowed to Him, calling Him "Son of the Most High GOD". The foolish virgins were NEVER Born Again, the Oil in the lamps is symbolism for the HOLY SPIRIT, which they had NONE; PLUS He said:

Matthew 25:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!’ ☜

(That is a reference to the inner personal LOVE relationship with Jesus as LORD, that happens the moment the HOLY SPIRIT comes into your heart. AND JESUS PROMISED THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WOULD NEVER LEAVE US, once He comes into our hearts.)

Here is what the BIBLE says a genuine Christian is:

John 3:3-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly,
I say to you, unless one is born again, ☜
he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and
that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ☜
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' ☜

1 Peter 3:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, ☜ with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love ☜ has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, ☜ continue to live in Him,

Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess ☜ (professing is NOT a CONFESSION) with your mouth
Jesus as Lord, ☜ (Lord means Master)
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Matthew 22:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "For many ☜ are called, but few ☜ are chosen."

All of those on the Broad Road to Destruction, think they are Christians, but they are not, only those who entered the Narrow Gate of submitting to His Lordship after being BORN AGAIN are real Christians.

Matthew 7:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many☜ who enter through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few ☜ who find it.

Matthew 7:20-23 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' ☜ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many☜ will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; ☜ (That inner personal LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ that comes when the Holy Spirit pours GOD'S LOVE into our hearts, birthing our human spirit into Eternal life.) depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, ☜ (born again) you will keep My commands.

1 John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands,
is a liar, ☜ and the truth is not in him.

fredoheaven · Jan 17, 2016

VCO said:

Verily, Verily!

God bless,

Goodnewsman · Jan 18, 2016

can a person backslide? if so, do backsliders still go to heaven if they don't repent?

What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

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