The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead
Is it getting late for you? Only able to squeeze out one-liners? It looks like you almost fell asleep while pressing the 'O' key. OK, go get some rest and come back when you have something substantive to offer.
when you show that you know what Gnostics really taught I'll talk further. Not until. You're wasting my time
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
You can't, that's the point.
Ok, so you have be in the family of God before you can walk away from it.

Galatians 5 (NKJV) (text within the brackets [] are my comments)

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. [so they have been freed from the yoke of the the law, Paul warns not to go back, to be entangled with it again]2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. [physical circumcision means nothing]3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [Paul is making the point that if you believe you need to keep one aspect of the the law, you must keep all of it, which is impossible to keep]4 You have become estranged from Christ, [NASB uses severed-meaning cut off]you who attempt to be justified by law;you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

[Therefore, to fall from Grace you had to have been in Grace. In order to be cut off from Christ, You had to be in Christ]

[Thanks for helping me make my point]
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
Unsure of your identity?
Not sure who you really are? Read this list of Biblical truths that reveal who God made you to be.

I am complete in Him Who is the Head of all principality and power (Colossians 2:10).

I am alive with Christ (Ephesians 2:5).

I am free from the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2).

I am far from oppression, and fear does not come near me (Isaiah 54:14).

I am born of God, and the evil one does not touch me (1 John 5:18).

I am holy and without blame before Him in love (Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:16).

I have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16; Philippians 2:5).

I have the peace of God that passes all understanding (Philippians 4:7).

I have the Greater One living in me; greater is He Who is in me than he who is in the world (1 John 4:4).

I have received the gift of righteousness and reign as a king in life by Jesus Christ (Romans 5:17).

I have received the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Jesus, the eyes of my understanding being enlightened (Ephesians 1:17-18).

I have received the power of the Holy Spirit to lay hands on the sick and see them recover, to cast out demons, to speak with new tongues. I have power over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means harm me (Mark 16:17-18; Luke 10:17-19).

I have put off the old man and have put on the new man, which is renewed in the knowledge after the image of Him Who created me (Colossians 3:9-10).

I have given, and it is given to me; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, men give into my bosom (Luke 6:38).

I have no lack for my God supplies all of my need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:19).

I can quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one with my shield of faith (Ephesians 6:16).

I can do all things through Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:13).

I show forth the praises of God Who has called me out of darkness into His marvelous light (1 Peter 2:9).

I am God’s child for I am born again of the incorruptible seed of the Word of God, which lives and abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).

I am God’s workmanship, created in Christ unto good works (Ephesians 2:10).

I am a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

I am a spirit being alive to God (Romans 6:11;1 Thessalonians 5:23).

I am a believer, and the light of the Gospel shines in my mind (2 Corinthians 4:4).

I am a doer of the Word and blessed in my actions (James 1:22,25).

I am a joint-heir with Christ (Romans 8:17).

I am more than a conqueror through Him Who loves me (Romans 8:37).

I am an overcomer by the blood of the Lamb and the word of my testimony (Revelation 12:11).

I am a partaker of His divine nature (2 Peter 1:3-4).

I am an ambassador for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20).

I am part of a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people (1 Peter 2:9).

I am the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21).

I am the temple of the Holy Spirit; I am not my own (1 Corinthians 6:19).

I am the head and not the tail; I am above only and not beneath (Deuteronomy 28:13).

I am the light of the world (Matthew 5:14).

I am His elect, full of mercy, kindness, humility, and longsuffering (Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12).

I am forgiven of all my sins and washed in the Blood (Ephesians 1:7).

I am delivered from the power of darkness and translated into God’s kingdom (Colossians 1:13).

I am redeemed from the curse of sin, sickness, and poverty (Deuteronomy 28:15-68; Galatians 3:13).

I am firmly rooted, built up, established in my faith and overflowing with gratitude (Colossians 2:7).

I am called of God to be the voice of His praise (Psalm 66:8; 2 Timothy 1:9).

I am healed by the stripes of Jesus (Isaiah 53:5; 1 Peter 2:24).

I am raised up with Christ and seated in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 2:12).

I am greatly loved by God (Romans 1:7; Ephesians 2:4; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4).

I am strengthened with all might according to His glorious power (Colossians 1:11).

I am submitted to God, and the devil flees from me because I resist him in the Name of Jesus (James 4:7).

I press on toward the goal to win the prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward (Philippians 3:14).

For God has not given us a spirit of fear; but of power, love, and a sound mind (2 Timothy 1:7).

It is not I who live, but Christ lives in me (Galatians 2:20).
 
Last edited:
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
Surely you have read the Bible telling us to understand and be aware of who, and whose, we are? That is identity.
Yeah, but who we are is not what we are to focus on. Our identity can't transform us. Even what we identify with can't transform us. Following the one who can transform actually does transform us into his image. But we can't follow him if we're focusing on ourselves, whatever that identity is.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

I am so glad the book of Galatians is in the Bible because we can learn a lot from other people’s mistakes.
The Galatians lost their liberty in Christ by allowing themselves to be enslaved to the yoke of the law.

In their case the issue was circumcision, but for us it could be anything that puts a price tag on grace—church rules, confession of sins, the spiritual disciplines, whatever. I’m not against these things. I’m saying there is nothing we can do to add or improve upon Christ’s perfect work.

We stand by grace alone.

The Galatians had a different view. Some guys with long faces and long knives came preaching mixture and the Galatians bought it hook, line, and sinker. But does this mean the Galatians were now unsaved, under condemnation, and hell-bound? No. Falling from grace does not mean falling out of the kingdom.

“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” (Gal 5:4)

The NIV Bible says the Galatians alienated themselves from Christ. Other translations say they became estranged, separated, severed, and cut off. These are serious words with serious implications, but they do not imply condemnation.

Who cut them off? It wasn’t Christ.

Who did the separating? Not Jesus.

As always, he remains the thoroughly faithful husband who keeps us safe while promising that no one, not even ourselves in a moment of stupidity, can snatch us out of his hands.

Paul never tells the Galatians, “You are losing your salvation.” Instead, he says, “You are indulging the flesh” (Galatians 5:13). They were becoming carnal, biting and devouring one another in vicious arguments. The danger is not that God will destroy them, but that “you will be destroyed by each other” (Galatians 5:15).

Remove grace from any community and you will soon have quarrels, strife, bickering, manipulation, envy, hatred, and all the other works of the flesh that Paul lists in Galatians 5:19–21. But none of these things will send you to hell.

When Paul reminds the Galatians that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom,” he’s saying, “Those who belong to Christ shouldn’t act like those who don’t.”

If Christians were kicked out of the kingdom every time they walked after the flesh, heaven would be empty.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
Ok, so you have be in the family of God before you can walk away from it.

"They went out from among us, because, they were not part of us". Many are among us, but not all of those among us are part of us.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
Yeah, but who we are is not what we are to focus on. Our identity can't transform us. Even what we identify with can't transform us. Following the one who can transform actually does transform us into his image. But we can't follow him if we're focusing on ourselves, whatever that identity is.
Focus upon that list I just posted, and maybe you will understand how we seldom think of anything but Jesus.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
Yeah, but who we are is not what we are to focus on. Our identity can't transform us. Even what we identify with can't transform us. Following the one who can transform actually does transform us into his image. But we can't follow him if we're focusing on ourselves, whatever that identity is.
But, Who we are identified with, as Christians, can change us.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
yea....that's all well and good....but what does Iraeneus say about that?..that is very "neo-gnostic thinking"...do you have to always use actual scripture all the time?..sheesh...

Unsure of your identity?
Not sure who you really are? Read this list of Biblical truths that reveal who God made you to be.

I am complete in Him Who is the Head of all principality and power (Colossians 2:10).

I am alive with Christ (Ephesians 2:5).

I am free from the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2).

I am far from oppression, and fear does not come near me (Isaiah 54:14).

I am born of God, and the evil one does not touch me (1 John 5:18).

I am holy and without blame before Him in love (Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:16).

I have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16; Philippians 2:5).

I have the peace of God that passes all understanding (Philippians 4:7).

I have the Greater One living in me; greater is He Who is in me than he who is in the world (1 John 4:4).

I have received the gift of righteousness and reign as a king in life by Jesus Christ (Romans 5:17).

I have received the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Jesus, the eyes of my understanding being enlightened (Ephesians 1:17-18).

I have received the power of the Holy Spirit to lay hands on the sick and see them recover, to cast out demons, to speak with new tongues. I have power over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means harm me (Mark 16:17-18; Luke 10:17-19).

I have put off the old man and have put on the new man, which is renewed in the knowledge after the image of Him Who created me (Colossians 3:9-10).

I have given, and it is given to me; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, men give into my bosom (Luke 6:38).

I have no lack for my God supplies all of my need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:19).

I can quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one with my shield of faith (Ephesians 6:16).

I can do all things through Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:13).

I show forth the praises of God Who has called me out of darkness into His marvelous light (1 Peter 2:9).

I am God’s child for I am born again of the incorruptible seed of the Word of God, which lives and abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).

I am God’s workmanship, created in Christ unto good works (Ephesians 2:10).

I am a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

I am a spirit being alive to God (Romans 6:11;1 Thessalonians 5:23).

I am a believer, and the light of the Gospel shines in my mind (2 Corinthians 4:4).

I am a doer of the Word and blessed in my actions (James 1:22,25).

I am a joint-heir with Christ (Romans 8:17).

I am more than a conqueror through Him Who loves me (Romans 8:37).

I am an overcomer by the blood of the Lamb and the word of my testimony (Revelation 12:11).

I am a partaker of His divine nature (2 Peter 1:3-4).

I am an ambassador for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20).

I am part of a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people (1 Peter 2:9).

I am the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21).

I am the temple of the Holy Spirit; I am not my own (1 Corinthians 6:19).

I am the head and not the tail; I am above only and not beneath (Deuteronomy 28:13).

I am the light of the world (Matthew 5:14).

I am His elect, full of mercy, kindness, humility, and longsuffering (Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12).

I am forgiven of all my sins and washed in the Blood (Ephesians 1:7).

I am delivered from the power of darkness and translated into God’s kingdom (Colossians 1:13).

I am redeemed from the curse of sin, sickness, and poverty (Deuteronomy 28:15-68; Galatians 3:13).

I am firmly rooted, built up, established in my faith and overflowing with gratitude (Colossians 2:7).

I am called of God to be the voice of His praise (Psalm 66:8; 2 Timothy 1:9).

I am healed by the stripes of Jesus (Isaiah 53:5; 1 Peter 2:24).

I am raised up with Christ and seated in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 2:12).

I am greatly loved by God (Romans 1:7; Ephesians 2:4; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4).

I am strengthened with all might according to His glorious power (Colossians 1:11).

I am submitted to God, and the devil flees from me because I resist him in the Name of Jesus (James 4:7).

I press on toward the goal to win the prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward (Philippians 3:14).

For God has not given us a spirit of fear; but of power, love, and a sound mind (2 Timothy 1:7).

It is not I who live, but Christ lives in me (Galatians 2:20).
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Ok, so you have be in the family of God before you can walk away from it.

Galatians 5 (NKJV) (text within the brackets [] are my comments)

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. [so they have been freed from the yoke of the the law, Paul warns not to go back, to be entangled with it again]2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. [physical circumcision means nothing]3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [Paul is making the point that if you believe you need to keep one aspect of the the law, you must keep all of it, which is impossible to keep]4 You have become estranged from Christ, [NASB uses severed-meaning cut off]you who attempt to be justified by law;you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

[Therefore, to fall from Grace you had to have been in Grace. In order to be cut off from Christ, You had to be in Christ]

[Thanks for helping me make my point]
It means rendered useless. you are useless to Christ.

fallen from grace means doctrinally

thus you can be in Christ and yet useless to Him because your doctrine is wrong.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

I am so glad the book of Galatians is in the Bible because we can learn a lot from other people’s mistakes.
The Galatians lost their liberty in Christ by allowing themselves to be enslaved to the yoke of the law.

In their case the issue was circumcision, but for us it could be anything that puts a price tag on grace—church rules, confession of sins, the spiritual disciplines, whatever. I’m not against these things. I’m saying there is nothing we can do to add or improve upon Christ’s perfect work.

We stand by grace alone.

The Galatians had a different view. Some guys with long faces and long knives came preaching mixture and the Galatians bought it hook, line, and sinker. But does this mean the Galatians were now unsaved, under condemnation, and hell-bound? No. Falling from grace does not mean falling out of the kingdom.

“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” (Gal 5:4)

The NIV Bible says the Galatians alienated themselves from Christ. Other translations say they became estranged, separated, severed, and cut off. These are serious words with serious implications, but they do not imply condemnation.

Who cut them off? It wasn’t Christ.

Who did the separating? Not Jesus.

As always, he remains the thoroughly faithful husband who keeps us safe while promising that no one, not even ourselves in a moment of stupidity, can snatch us out of his hands.

Paul never tells the Galatians, “You are losing your salvation.” Instead, he says, “You are indulging the flesh” (Galatians 5:13). They were becoming carnal, biting and devouring one another in vicious arguments. The danger is not that God will destroy them, but that “you will be destroyed by each other” (Galatians 5:15).

Remove grace from any community and you will soon have quarrels, strife, bickering, manipulation, envy, hatred, and all the other works of the flesh that Paul lists in Galatians 5:19–21. But none of these things will send you to hell.

When Paul reminds the Galatians that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom,” he’s saying, “Those who belong to Christ shouldn’t act like those who don’t.”

If Christians were kicked out of the kingdom every time they walked after the flesh, heaven would be empty.
Wish you lived near me. My "weird" friend, Mike, is coming down to St. Pete in March to do a workshop on Galatians.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
That is because they constantly take that passage from 1 John 2:19 and place it on all who does not continue in the faith instead of apply to the only group being mentioned here; anti-christ.

These are those who tried to bring in lies to the truth, not those that fell away because of hardships and troubles !!!

As long as scripture keeps getting misapplied to involve people it is not talking about then the wrong understanding will continue to be seen.
I would agree here that these whom John is speaking leaving were not of the faith, but impostors. But in other passages it seems likely that warning is given to those of the faith not to leave it as I posted previously Gal 5:1-5 and Romans 11 would be another place.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
yea....that's all well and good....but what does Iraeneus say about that?..that is very "neo-gnostic thinking"...do you have to always use actual scripture all the time?..sheesh...
Sorry. I'll try to work on it.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,274
2,126
113
HeRoseFromTheDead, Has a valid point.. Our Identity doesnt transform, it's our initial transformation that gives us our (new) identity. Now that you know your identity you will want to walk accordingly!
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
HeRoseFromTheDead, Has a valid point.. Our Identity doesnt transform, it's our initial transformation that gives us our (new) identity. Now that you know your identity you will want to walk accordingly!
Whats your identity?
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
It means rendered useless. you are useless to Christ.

fallen from grace means doctrinally

thus you can be in Christ and yet useless to Him because your doctrine is wrong.
Ok then what does it mean to be severed from Christ?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

The problem is some are struggling with or don't even follow the milk (Jesus teachings), yet they want to force feed on the meat and thus are choking on the word instead of growing in it !!!
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
HeRoseFromTheDead, Has a valid point.. Our Identity doesnt transform, it's our initial transformation that gives us our (new) identity. Now that you know your identity you will want to walk accordingly!
Yes, I will agree with that.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
I would agree here that these whom John is speaking leaving were not of the faith, but impostors. But in other passages it seems likely that warning is given to those of the faith not to leave it as I posted previously Gal 5:1-5 and Romans 11 would be another place.
Yes and these warnings go all the way back to Jesus who gave the different groups on how the word is received in the "Sower and the Seed", and also mentioned in Matthew 24:10-13 of the many that will fall away here.

I am completely in agreement with you on this as a person can not depart, leave, fall away, or stop continuing in something they were not a part of to begin with. They would have to be in it first in order for this to happen, and it is not just leaving the doctrine as one has claimed.

For it clearly says "departs from the FAITH"..................