The Lie of Parental Forgiveness: Rebuilding the Veil Jesus Broke

[Grace777x70]

Personally I love to run to my Father and talk about everything... as I am sure all believers in the true grace of Christ do.

I know that in initially I have struggled with this 1 john 1:9 thing as well. For me it was part of my religious upbringing and wanting to "get right" because I was told this is the way it is....ask for forgiveness in order to get that forgiveness which in reality is already ours in Christ.

The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use. ...what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character..

I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him...how what I did was wrong... sometimes I use the word sin...sometimes I don't...I think that is irrelevant...I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son..my Lord is my life..my righteousness,.. Jesus Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins....I confess what God says about me...I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him...

You know ...He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me...and I just sit there in His presence and weep...sometimes I can't move a muscle.. He is so mighty in power yet His love is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.


To me.. all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me..most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.

For example.. If I steal something.. that is a sin.. but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. It is unbelief in the goodness and faithfulness of our Lord toward us.

This truth applies to all areas of our lives. This is something that the Lord is showing me now at this stage in my life with Him.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus has reconciled us already. It's done. That's why He is now seated at the right hand of the Father.

One sacrifice, for all time.

Exactly. There were no chairs in the Temple, for good reason, the priests work was never finished. But THIS Priest, Christ, sat down...which pictorially signifies what He Himself proclaimed from the cross..."it is finished". Meaning that the finished work of God in Christ had set in motion the complete enactment of God's intent for the restoration of mankind and creation.

By His once for all sacrifice He has accomplished what the blood of bulls and goats could not. He is our propitiation, who takes away our sins and reconciles us to God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Exactly. There were no chairs in the Temple, for good reason, the priests work was never finished. But THIS Priest, Christ, sat down...which pictorially signifies what He Himself proclaimed from the cross..."it is finished". Meaning that the finished work of God in Christ had set in motion the complete enactment of God's intent for the restoration of mankind and creation.

By His once for all sacrifice He has accomplished what the blood of bulls and goats could not. He is our propitiation, who takes away our sins and reconciles us to God.

What do you think the mercy seat was?

 

[FreeNChrist]

What do you think the mercy seat was?

LOL. Well, it wasn't for the priests to sit on.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

LOL. Well, it wasn't for the priests to sit on.

I know. It was a shadow of the reality of where Christ is now sitting to make atonement for sin.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I know. It was a shadow of the reality of where Christ is now sitting to make atonement for sin.

It wasn't a chair in the Temple for the priest to sit in. So...........get a life would ya.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It wasn't a chair in the Temple for the priest to sit in. So...........get a life would ya.

No high priest could sit in it because it wasn't for them. The blood was applied to it in anticipation of the true sacrifice sitting on the true throne of mercy in heaven with his blood. It was a pattern of the heavenly things.

 

[crossnote]

And this leads to ...Myth 2: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Confession

“Hyper-grace preachers say it’s wrong to confess sins. They say confession is a form of unbelief.” Actually, every hyper-grace preacher believes in the power of confession. We say things like, “confession is good for you,” and “confession is healthy.”

But what is confession?

Like the word repentance, confession is a word that has been mangled in the machinery of manmade religion. Instead of bringing healing to the hurting and life to the dead, confession is seen as the cost of admission into the house of grace. “You wanna be clean? Then ‘fess up you miserable sinner! Tell God your dirty little secrets.”

But that’s not what confession is.

To confess literally means to agree with or say the same thing as another. Biblical confession is agreeing with God. It’s verbalizing faith in His goodness and acknowledging your dependence upon Him (Rom. 10:9–10). It’s saying, “God, I believe You are faithful and true and will do all that You promised.”

But some people have a different definition of confession. They think confession is something you must do to make yourself clean, righteous, and forgiven. “I have to review all my sins to receive forgiveness.” This is a dead work.

Confessing-to-be-forgiven is like washing with dirty water. No matter how hard you scrub you won’t make yourself clean.

If anyone is interested they can click on the link below for the rest in order tog et the proper understanding of what is being said..

Myth 2: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Confession – Escape to Reality

Funny, Paul didn't tell the Corinthians to remind this guy who he was in Christ...

1 Corinthians 5:1-5 KJVS
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. [2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Rather the result was restoration through repentance...

2 Corinthians 7:8-12 KJVS
[8] For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. [9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. [12] Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.

This cockamaney teaching that confession of our sins to God is unscriptural and those that are the pusher-men of it will be held accountable to God...and just 'confessing who you are in Christ' won't work on that Day.

 

[oldthennew]

preach it Brother Crossnote,
hugs & 's...

 

[Grace777x70]

Good one...so that is all about church discipline for that particular guy as the Corinthians were boasting about what he had done...(.I still don't quite get the sleeping with his father's wife.. must have been a step-mother deal..)... kinda like people claiming they are under grace and that means they can sin all they want....they actually boast about it... they can sin but it will bring consequences...." no bout a doubt it"

So in reality this scripture has nothing to do with confessing sins for a believer " in order " to receive forgiveness..which is what the topic was about.. church discipline is a completely different topic but a good one for sure!

Funny, Paul didn't tell the Corinthians to remind this guy who he was in Christ...

1 Corinthians 5:1-5 KJVS
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. [2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Rather the result was restoration through repentance...

2 Corinthians 7:8-12 KJVS
[8] For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. [9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. [12] Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.

This cockamaney teaching that confession of our sins to God is unscriptural and those that are the pusher-men of it will be held accountable to God...and just 'confessing who you are in Christ' won't work on that Day.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Reconciliation has been made and it is through God's Son Jesus Christ and the issue of sin has been dealt with having received remission through the blood of Jesus Christ. Sin doesn't break fellowship or communion with God because it has been dealt with by the blood of Jesus.[/B] The very issue of alienation was due to sin and that is precisely why Christ went to the cross. Did Jesus fail in His mission? Of course not, and that is why we may have boldness to enter into the holiest, to enter into God's presence without fear or judgement. Praise Jesus!

New.modern.hyper grace believers must have no faith if they are afraid to approach GOD to seek his bountiful forgiveness.

It seems like the only way they have confidence to approach GOD is if they have no awareness of sin.

That is the opposite of grace!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

From the OP....

Reconciliation has been made and it is through God's Son Jesus Christ and the issue of sin has been dealt with having received remission through the blood of Jesus Christ. Sin doesn't break fellowship or communion with God because it has been dealt with by the blood of Jesus. The very issue of alienation was due to sin and that is precisely why Christ went to the cross. Did Jesus fail in His mission? Of course not, and that is why we may have boldness to enter into the holiest, to enter into God's presence without fear or judgement. Praise Jesus!

It is those who wilfully sin after receiving the knowledge of the Truth that have failed because they did not remain faithful. And if you think you can still be living in unrepentant sin and still be "in Christ" think again!

Hebrews 7:26
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

 

[Gr8grace]

And this leads to ...Myth 2: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Confession

“Hyper-grace preachers say it’s wrong to confess sins. They say confession is a form of unbelief.” Actually, every hyper-grace preacher believes in the power of confession. We say things like, “confession is good for you,” and “confession is healthy.”

But what is confession?

Like the word repentance, confession is a word that has been mangled in the machinery of manmade religion. Instead of bringing healing to the hurting and life to the dead, confession is seen as the cost of admission into the house of grace. “You wanna be clean? Then ‘fess up you miserable sinner! Tell God your dirty little secrets.”

But that’s not what confession is.

To confess literally means to agree with or say the same thing as another. Biblical confession is agreeing with God. It’s verbalizing faith in His goodness and acknowledging your dependence upon Him (Rom. 10:9–10). It’s saying, “God, I believe You are faithful and true and will do all that You promised.”

But some people have a different definition of confession. They think confession is something you must do to make yourself clean, righteous, and forgiven. “I have to review all my sins to receive forgiveness.” This is a dead work.

Confessing-to-be-forgiven is like washing with dirty water. No matter how hard you scrub you won’t make yourself clean.

If anyone is interested they can click on the link below for the rest in order tog et the proper understanding of what is being said..

Myth 2: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Confession – Escape to Reality

WHat is the definition of confession? Name or site,acknowledge or agree with.

Jesus Christ paid for all sin and judgement is gone for the believer. But He did not put a stop to all sin. We still have sin and will always have sin until we die.

Sin or human good/grieve or quench the Spirit takes us out of His plan for our lives.

We HAVE to understand when and where we veered from His Plan and get back into His plan..........ANd we acknowledge this or confess this to God and get back into His plan for our lives.

His plan for the believer is to live in the realm of being filled and walking in the Spirit. If we are living in the realm of sin or in the realm of our own human good , we need to recognize it, name and site where we left that plan and get back into it.

It is often called rebound, and it is critical for the believer to do it. Not for forgiveness of sins, but for the purpose to get back into His plan for our daily lives.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen!..walk in agreement with the Lord! Well said!

Sin is deceitful! Sin causes destruction where ever it shows up!Sin separates ourselves from God in our minds and alienates us through it's ( sin's ) deceitfulness from the true life that is in Him! Thank God for the blood of Jesus that frees us from sin!!!

WHat is the definition of confession? Name or site,acknowledge or agree with.

Jesus Christ paid for all sin and judgement is gone for the believer. But He did not put a stop to all sin. We still have sin and will always have sin until we die.

Sin or human good/grieve or quench the Spirit takes us out of His plan for our lives.

We HAVE to understand when and where we veered from His Plan and get back into His plan..........ANd we acknowledge this or confess this to God and get back into His plan for our lives.

His plan for the believer is to live in the realm of being filled and walking in the Spirit. If we are living in the realm of sin or in the realm of our own human good , we need to recognize it, name and site where we left that plan and get back into it.

It is often called rebound, and it is critical for the believer to do it. Not for forgiveness of sins, but for the purpose to get back into His plan for our daily lives.

 

[oldthennew]

how it must grieve our Saviour when so many deny the Work of our High Priest...

as it is written, For if, when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
the simplicity of this is, Christ's death reconciles us to God, but through His Life as our High Priest,
we shall be saved by His Life, for He EVER LIVES to MAKE INTERCESSION for us.......

 

[crossnote]

Good one...so that is all about church discipline for that particular guy as the Corinthians were boasting about what he had done...(.I still don't quite get the sleeping with his father's wife.. must have been a step-mother deal..)... kinda like people claiming they are under grace and that means they can sin all they want....they actually boast about it... they can sin but it will bring consequences...." no bout a doubt it"

So in reality this scripture has nothing to do with confessing sins for a believer " in order " to receive forgiveness..which is what the topic was about.. church discipline is a completely different topic but a good one for sure!

You noticed Paul didn't tell the Corinthians merely to remind this brother who he was in Christ! But to hand him over to satan.

 

[Gr8grace]

Personally I love to run to my Father and talk about everything... as I am sure all believers in the true grace of Christ do.

I know that in initially I have struggled with this 1 john 1:9 thing as well. For me it was part of my religious upbringing and wanting to "get right" because I was told this is the way it is....ask for forgiveness in order to get that forgiveness which in reality is already ours in Christ.

The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use. ...what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character..

I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him...how what I did was wrong... sometimes I use the word sin...sometimes I don't...I think that is irrelevant...I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son..my Lord is my life..my righteousness,.. Jesus Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins....I confess what God says about me...I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him...

You know ...He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me...and I just sit there in His presence and weep...sometimes I can't move a muscle.. He is so mighty in power yet His love is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.


To me.. all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me..most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.

For example.. If I steal something.. that is a sin.. but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. It is unbelief in the goodness and faithfulness of our Lord toward us.

This truth applies to all areas of our lives. This is something that the Lord is showing me now at this stage in my life with Him.

Grace 777, we are pretty much always on the same page. lets hash this out a bit.

I believe we have to confess our sins to God. Sin and human good takes us out of the plan of God. And we need to get back into his plan..........1 John 1:9 is how the believer returns to the plan(prodigal son.) A side note to this is the older son....He was stuck in human good, or his own self righteousness and he never named and sited it or acknowledged it.

Both are sons, both were out of the plan of God for their daily lives.......one recognized it and returned. Not for salvation, but for getting back into the Fathers plan for their lives.

From some of the stuff I have read you don't believe we have to?...Am I reading this wrong?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You noticed Paul didn't tell the Corinthians merely to remind this brother who he was in Christ! But to hand him over to satan.

Perhaps he didn't realize or "imagine" his true "identity" in Christ? LOL!

 

[PeterJens]

Then we're all done. Every last one of us.

For what sins do you commit that aren't willful?

The Lord defines sins that are done unknowingly. He talks about sacrifices for sins which were done, but only later understood as sin. These could be described as not willful.

There is also the situation of seduction, where when not involved it is obvious what is going on but you get sucked into a situation. Affairs often start this way, with two people who have needs but they are not resolved but find support in each other. This can lead to inappropriate feelings etc. I have seen this is at least 2 marriages.

David and Bethsheba is also a possible example.

I think in families often there are conflicts that can continue beyond the point they should, where relationships break.

It is often not the one act, but a continual taking of positions which in the end can lead to a broken relationship.
People talk about grace, the mercy of the Lord to overlook these issues, until finally they come to breaking point.

One concept is sin is left until it comes to its ultimate conclusion.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here is what the false prophet spirit working in many deceivers is trying to raise back up.....

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/118708-do-not-build-again-meant-destroyed.html