The Lie of Parental Forgiveness: Rebuilding the Veil Jesus Broke

Grace777x70 · Jan 17, 2016

Yes.. obviously he ( just that one particular man was dealt with in this manner ) wasn't getting the truth and he had to be dealt with.

I also noticed that Paul told all the other people in Corinth that were having sex with the temple prostitutes and there was divisions, jealousy, and strife, amongst themselves..taking each other to court...getting drunk at communion..eating all the food at their love-feasts ( gatherings for communion ) so that there was no food left over for the poor people..

to all these "rascals"..Paul said this..

1 Cor 1:3 - you have been sanctified in Christ

verse 5 - that in everything you were enriched in Him

verse 8 - Jesus will confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

1 cor 2;16 - you have the mind of Christ

1 cor 3:23 - that you belong to Christ and Christ belongs to God

1 Corinthians 6:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Then there is this that we do in order to make our faith "effective"

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
Again as I said..Paul was talking about church discipline for that ONE particular guy...and has nothing to do with "confessing IN ORDER to get forgiveness of sins"

Church discipline is a different subject...but a necessary one too. But that is for elders in the body of Christ to do under the total guidance of the Holy Spirit....hand people over to satan for the destruction of his flesh ..but he himself is still saved in his spirit.

crossnote said:

Grace777x70 · Jan 17, 2016

I have never thought of it as I have to confess sins in order to be forgiven...but I always do acknowledge when I do wrong..I just automatically when I do wrong I go to my Father and talk everything to Him as I have said in the post you have quoted from me.

Altho where we may differ perhaps is that I don't believe 1 John 1:9 is needed by the believer FOR forgiveness in order to be cleansed of all unrighteousness..I did that when I came to Jesus...but I most certainly acknowledge wrong for sure every time......

Gr8grace said:

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jan 17, 2016

crossnote said:

When thou art gathered together with mine spirit, handest over that man to satan, who will gently tell him that he doth have a confused identity.

Gr8grace · Jan 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

The way I read 1 John 1:9 is for on-going sanctification in this life. Not for our position in Christ.

Sin and human good drags us away from the reality of our position in Christ. 1 John 1:9 just brings us back into the reality of our position.

It's washing our feet, we are in this world and we WILL touch it at times........name it and site, carry on.

"and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" is God cleansing us from all unknown sins and the human good that we may unknowingly been involved in.

Grace777x70 · Jan 17, 2016

As far as knowing God's plan for my life ..that is a daily working out and trying to get the voice of the Lord on every subject...and there are many things that can get in the way of that.

One thing the Lord showed me that I needed to be careful of in my life were these 5 areas to be watchful of..these 5 areas would be the greatest opposition in my walk with Him.

1) Believing and receiving the grace of God freely given to me through the finished work of my Lord Jesus Christ on the cross and in His resurrection

2) Being established in the gift of righteousness

3) Praying in the spirit

4) The seemingly overwhelming urge from both inside and outside forces to create Ishmaels. That I was to wait upon the Lord to show me the a) the what b) the when and c) the way of His will by depending on the Holy Spirit inside of me to lead me.

5) Acting on those "rhema" words. - through the direction of the Holy Spirit.

Gr8grace said:

Grace777x70 · Jan 17, 2016

Ok..that's cool...

I think this scripture is good in these kinds of areas..

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

Gr8grace said:

PeterJens · Jan 17, 2016

Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
John 8:34

Jesus is saying is we sin, sin has a hold on us. It is through confession and repentance that we find grace and forgiveness is Jesus.

It is acknowledges christian will sin.

Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
Gal 6:1

If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.
Matt 18:15

If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Matt 18:17

There is obviously an acceptance of failure and restoration. Grace works through the difference between stumbling and full on rebellion.

If you held one sin, known or not known destroyed the relationship you would potentially be going in and out of salvation constantly which is what the hyper-grace crowd accuse everyone else is doing.

Equally is you say behaviour is irrelevant there is no righteousness or walking in the kingdom only do as you want.
In any process of sanctification and growing revelation there will be points of failure and stumbling. How far this goes is a test of the faith of the individual over the actual hold sin has on them.

Jesus in effect is saying sin enslaves you, so until you repent it has a hold on your behaviour. In the longer term is will destroy your relationship. It is this step OSAS people refute and hate, and call a lie. Oddly I hold all the promises to God in my life so why am I called a liar? If we are called, there is nothing that will separate from Jesus, so why do I need a doctrine to declare this, what purpose does it serve? Maybe in a way, I do actually follow OSAS, but not as people understand it.

Gr8grace · Jan 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

#1 is key.........If we don't have this and BELIEVE it, we go nowhere in the Christian way of life. We will forever be "stuck" on salvation and never get past it. Every verse in the bible will be about salvation or the loss of it.

It is why these forums can't go very far in the manifold wisdom of God...........we are "stuck" on salvation.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jan 17, 2016

Gr8grace said:

I agree with everything you said except the human good part. Christ is human, and good is good; there is no law against what is good. I think what you meant was carnal works.

Grace777x70 · Jan 17, 2016

Amen brother!...in #1 BELIEVE is paramount...and to me the "receiving" can be the hard part to grasp as well....I think we need to be great "receivers" of all that Jesus bought and paid for with His life and blood. How can we hear unless it is preached?

Gr8grace said:

Gr8grace · Jan 17, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

No, I meant human good.

PeterJens · Jan 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

I remember you quoting the idea of carnal legalism before the cross, and grace after the cross.

How in your mind could Christ forgive sins in His ministry?
Jesus went around saying "Your sins are forgiven". He compared this to healing, and said which is harder? Take up your mat and walk.

Now the cross is to eternal sacrifice for sins through which we all gain forgiveness, but I wonder how in your theology you square this idea?

Now in the old testament, sacrifices washed the people offering clean from sin, as the Lord stated, but only to that point in time. There were continual sacrifices for the whole nation to work through the debt of sin born by all. This is not a picture I see of value in your theology, though it was instituted by God.

Now this matters because you always want to make a distinction about sin and how we stand before Christ, and seem to down play sin in the believers life. By the way a long quoting of verses does not answer a specific question like this.

PeterJens · Jan 17, 2016

Gr8grace said:

Are you calling good acts do by man evil?

I raise this question because it is for me a warning sign of fanaticism and corruption. The other sign is denial of conscience to identify when someone has done something wrong. Some religious people go so far to say the conscience opposes God and should be repressed. Again this is a warning sign of serious problems.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jan 17, 2016

Gr8grace said:

Bizarre. Humans are made in GOD's image. Anything that humans do that is not sin is good.

Gr8grace · Jan 17, 2016

PeterJens said:

Yes, I am Peter. Yes I am.

Sorry Brother, but if we don't understand that our good deeds done in the flesh are counted as wood,hay,stubble,evil,dung,menstrual rags to God.............we have serious problems.

New American Standard Bible
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

The evil is human good. It doesn't take solid food(meat/ advanced bible doctrine) to discern that stealing is bad and not stealing is good.

But it takes meat and advanced bible doctrine to discern whether we are feeding the poor through the Spirit or feeding the poor through our own human good.

Grace777x70 · Jan 17, 2016

Very true..but it is such a subtle thing..this self-effort in the flesh....it is massively deceptive.... as this quote that FreeNChrist showed us..talks about.

You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose. T

he flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God. “Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."

Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ

Gr8grace said:

Gr8grace · Jan 17, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

New American Standard Bible
And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

New American Standard Bible
as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

King James Bible
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jan 17, 2016

Gr8grace said:

This is just a gnostic idea that there is special knowledge to be had by those who have the secret decoder ring. Completely unbiblical.

But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, mercy, graciousness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

[the gnostics] run us [Christians] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed.

PeterJens · Jan 17, 2016

Gr8grace said:

For me there is an important distinction. Goodness in terms of righteousness, or purity, or justification is flawed before the Lord. But good deeds are good no matter who does them or why they are done.

Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
Matt 6:1

Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward.
Matt 10:41

Now the difference Jesus is making here is in terms of a reward not one deed is evil and the other acceptable.
As soon as you start judging good deeds as evil you have corrupted righteousness and lost the understanding of what sin actually is.

Gr8grace · Jan 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Very true..but it is such a subtle thing..this self-effort in the flesh....it is massively deceptive.... as this quote that FreeNChrist showed us..talks about.

You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose. T

he flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God. “Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."

Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ

He has it figured out doesn't he Grace 777? I like this guy.

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