Uh..... That book you deride was only written 6 years ago. That's less than 2,200 days ago.
The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace
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Uh..... That book you deride was only written 6 years ago. That's less than 2,200 days ago.
Hyper-gracers
I find it shocking that time and again hyper-gracers say we do not believe this or that, you go to preachers and sources and that is 100% what they do believe. This is called lying, deception. It is a mark of the enemy. It is not a mild oh not a problem, it is a salvation issue.
A tree has roots and goes to those roots to define its meaning. As a christian you cannot condemn temples, altars, sacrifices of animals, ceremonies, celebrations, carvings, ornate decorations, priests, special clothing because all of this are part of Gods law and worship by Israel, which we are inheritors of. Now this goes against my intellectual nature, but God is the Lord, and this is His dealings with man. You cannot condemn righteousness and the law, because again God gave these things to Israel as their guide and measure of behaviour.
So any faith position that condemns any of this, is condemning itself to be not following Yaweh or Jesus.
The Lord knows us, very very well, and put this all in place so that we might never forget what we are really like and how different we are from Him.
For these realities alone hyper-grace is dead.
I find it shocking that time and again hyper-gracers say we do not believe this or that, you go to preachers and sources and that is 100% what they do believe. This is called lying, deception. It is a mark of the enemy. It is not a mild oh not a problem, it is a salvation issue.
A tree has roots and goes to those roots to define its meaning. As a christian you cannot condemn temples, altars, sacrifices of animals, ceremonies, celebrations, carvings, ornate decorations, priests, special clothing because all of this are part of Gods law and worship by Israel, which we are inheritors of. Now this goes against my intellectual nature, but God is the Lord, and this is His dealings with man. You cannot condemn righteousness and the law, because again God gave these things to Israel as their guide and measure of behaviour.
So any faith position that condemns any of this, is condemning itself to be not following Yaweh or Jesus.
The Lord knows us, very very well, and put this all in place so that we might never forget what we are really like and how different we are from Him.
For these realities alone hyper-grace is dead.
It's too late. The deception has been fully exposed. The glaring red hot spotlight is shining on the deception.
We know what you folks are doing. You're twisting 1 John 1 to try to make it look like John was addressing unbelieving gnostics (or unbelievers) in the church. There is no evidence for that. Joseph Prince came up with that idea. Find me evidence of that teaching before Prince's book.
The context of 1 John 1 shows that John was addressing believers (his little children) to follow the spiritual truths the apostles learned from Jesus, and not succumb to the anti-christ doctrines of the 'gnostics' who had left the church.
It's really quite amazing how you folks spout 'truth' without any evidence. Not scriptural, not historical, not grammatical, not contextual. Nothing.
The term "Hyper-Gracers" is a new label that is kinda cool in that...it would be so awesome if all true CHRIST followers were to get so excited over Him that the world would begin to see that Christians are not as dull, stupid, clannish and boring as the world thinks we are. Rare is the day when we see Christians truely exuberant and filled with His Holy Spirit that we can no longer just warm a pew during designated worship services. IT's about time we showed excitement and energy, being in one accord while praising and worshiping JESUS CHRIST.
Amen!..well said...people can talk about "doctrine" all day...but do they ever talk about Jesus?..That knowing He is our life! Do they lead you to Him..or to our own works?
Man--made religion no matter how good in "appearance " it is .....it pales in comparison to knowing and trusting is Jesus only.
Man--made religion no matter how good in "appearance " it is .....it pales in comparison to knowing and trusting is Jesus only.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
Prince started preaching in the 90's. Here is a quote from Princes book Destined to reign
It all began in 1997, when I was on vacation with my wife, Wendy… I distinctly heard the voice of the Lord on the inside. It wasn’t a witness of the Spirit. It was a voice, and I heard God say clearly to me: “Son, you are not preaching grace.”I said, “What do You mean, Lord? That’s a low blow. That’s a real low blow!” I added, “I’m a preacher of grace. I have been a grace preacher for years, and like most preachers, I preach that we are saved by grace!”
So his ideas are really old.
JGIG - I have to say, I am not going to read all the stuff you write to come to the basic point I am right.
You like Ryan Rufus. Now I can gloss up the message in lots of fluff, but when push comes to shove, either sin is the problem in the world or it is not.
If you think the problem is faith in Jesus, goodbye. There is nothing else to say. You are an empty wind bag.
Most people have no clue who Jesus is or what he represents, and still they sin. Sin happens in the farthest jungles of the world to the most sophisticated cities, still it is not related to Jesus.
If again you hold law is the problem with world you are saying you are an anarchist. That is what people who believe like this are called. Or a biblical term is lawless. Again goodbye.
Do you condemn righteous living as evil? Yes. Again goodbye.
If you lived in the times of Moses you would have been thrown out as an unbeliever. If you were a prophet, you would have been stoned to death as a false prophet.
There is a simple set of rules to approach God and His holy throne.
1. Righteousness
2. Respect for His ways
3. Acceptance of His command
Now in Jesus we have His righteousness, which bears fruit in our righteous walk.
But you deny all three propositions by denying the first in believing we can never walk righteously.
One thing you have to remember is there is no conversation until you accept Gods terms.
D.I.Y. holiness
Practical holiness is a term to beware of as it often comes hiding a fishhook. Much of it is pure mixture, as the following soundbites illustrate:
Holiness preaching that emphasizes what you must do is carnal Christianity. Make no mistake, it comes straight out of the old covenant. Heed this sort of teaching and you will exalt the flesh at the expense of grace. And it won’t make you holy.
There are at least four ways to determine whether the holiness message you’re listening to reflects the condemning covenant of the law or the new and liberating covenant of grace:
Old covenant holiness is based on who you are (a bit of a reprobate) and is sold as a list of things you must do; new covenant holiness is based on who Christ is (our holiness – 1 Cor 1:30) and what He has done (sanctified you – Heb 2:11, Rom 11:16)
.
Old covenant holiness emphasizes sacrifices you are expected to make; new covenant holiness emphasizes the perfectly perfect sacrifice of the Lamb, by which you were “perfected forever” (Heb 10:14).
Old covenant holiness is sold as a process of increasing sanctification – something “we grow into” as we become more like Christ; new covenant holiness is presented as a done deal (Heb 10:10) in our new creation and we walk out who we already our in Christ now.
Old covenant holiness comes with a big stick – “the Lord will condemn you if you don’t deliver”; new covenant holiness has exhortations but no sticks because there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1).
Ok...how do we walk out this holiness stuff then?
To be holy is to partake of His wholeness; it is to stop acting broken (because in Him we are not broken) and to allow Him to express His whole and beautiful life through us.
The challenge is that being holy is a new experience for us. As sinners, holiness was totally alien to us. That old lifestyle was characterized by brokenness and hurt. Now that we are in Him we have to learn to walk in our new and God-given identity.
The wrong way to approach this is to think of yourself as a flawed sinner trying to become holy. That’s not who you are and that’s not how it works. Instead, see yourself as a toddler learning to walk. Just as you wouldn’t spank an infant if they stumbled and fell, neither will your heavenly Father spank you. He doesn’t condemn you when you fall; He encourages you to get up and walk!
He has given you everything you need for life and godliness. In Christ you lack nothing. You just need to work out who you already are and what He has already given you. This is the adventure of holy living.
Practical holiness is a term to beware of as it often comes hiding a fishhook. Much of it is pure mixture, as the following soundbites illustrate:
- “Following Christ is a lifestyle.” (True.) “We’ve got to keep His commands to be His disciples.” (Nope – that’s backwards. That’s putting the fruit before the tree.)
- “Find out what pleases the Lord.” (Okay!) “Keeping His instructions pleases Him.” (No it does not – that’s faithless, law-based living that nullifies grace and inflames sin – read Romans 7. Jesus pleases the Lord. Trust Him.)
- “If you sow to the flesh you will reap destruction.” (Yep). “So we have to be earnest in getting people to change their behavior.” (But that’s sowing to the flesh! You’re setting them up for failure.)
Holiness preaching that emphasizes what you must do is carnal Christianity. Make no mistake, it comes straight out of the old covenant. Heed this sort of teaching and you will exalt the flesh at the expense of grace. And it won’t make you holy.
There are at least four ways to determine whether the holiness message you’re listening to reflects the condemning covenant of the law or the new and liberating covenant of grace:
Old covenant holiness is based on who you are (a bit of a reprobate) and is sold as a list of things you must do; new covenant holiness is based on who Christ is (our holiness – 1 Cor 1:30) and what He has done (sanctified you – Heb 2:11, Rom 11:16)
.
Old covenant holiness emphasizes sacrifices you are expected to make; new covenant holiness emphasizes the perfectly perfect sacrifice of the Lamb, by which you were “perfected forever” (Heb 10:14).
Old covenant holiness is sold as a process of increasing sanctification – something “we grow into” as we become more like Christ; new covenant holiness is presented as a done deal (Heb 10:10) in our new creation and we walk out who we already our in Christ now.
Old covenant holiness comes with a big stick – “the Lord will condemn you if you don’t deliver”; new covenant holiness has exhortations but no sticks because there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1).
Ok...how do we walk out this holiness stuff then?
To be holy is to partake of His wholeness; it is to stop acting broken (because in Him we are not broken) and to allow Him to express His whole and beautiful life through us.
The challenge is that being holy is a new experience for us. As sinners, holiness was totally alien to us. That old lifestyle was characterized by brokenness and hurt. Now that we are in Him we have to learn to walk in our new and God-given identity.
The wrong way to approach this is to think of yourself as a flawed sinner trying to become holy. That’s not who you are and that’s not how it works. Instead, see yourself as a toddler learning to walk. Just as you wouldn’t spank an infant if they stumbled and fell, neither will your heavenly Father spank you. He doesn’t condemn you when you fall; He encourages you to get up and walk!
He has given you everything you need for life and godliness. In Christ you lack nothing. You just need to work out who you already are and what He has already given you. This is the adventure of holy living.
.
This illustrates the false dichotomy of grace/legalism taught by new.modern.hyper grace. Any doing is considered to be legalism. Grace then becomes a state of doing nothing and simply imagining who we are in Christ.
But the teachings of Jesus and the apostles are full of admonitions to do things. Not for justification, but for sanctification and establishing ourselves in the faith. For example:
This illustrates the false dichotomy of grace/legalism taught by new.modern.hyper grace. Any doing is considered to be legalism. Grace then becomes a state of doing nothing and simply imagining who we are in Christ.
But the teachings of Jesus and the apostles are full of admonitions to do things. Not for justification, but for sanctification and establishing ourselves in the faith. For example:
The saying [is] trustworthy, and I want you to insist concerning these [things], so that those who have believed in God may be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and beneficial for people. Titus 3:8
K
KennethC
Guest
You can not talk about Jesus without discussing His doctrine, because the Word of God says if we are following anything other than what Jesus taught it is a false gospel and we would be following a different Jesus with no power to save.
Doctrine of Christ is very important to follow, and it is only these bad now day man doctrines that tell you it isn't.
They say that because their leaders are lead by the spirit of the world (anti-christ) and not by the Holy Spirit, they want to keep people blind to the truth !!!
Your humility is, well, indicative.
Yes. Sin is the problem.
Faith in Christ is the solution.
That is the message of Grace:
- Who Jesus Christ is
- What He came to do
- What that actually accomplished, and
- Who those who believe in Christ are in Him
Since you don't actually read what I write, you have made a false assumption about what I think.
And then called me an 'empty wind bag' based on your false assumption
.Sin is part of the human condition; we are all born into Adam.
But since you don't read what I write here, you resort (again) to name-calling, this time, 'anarchist' and 'lawless'.
Um, no.
But you don't read what I write, so you don't know that.
I'm a Gentile, not bound to the covenant of Israel, so, no.
For teaching righteousness is by faith? Huh. Better let Abraham know.
And all this time I thought it's our Perfect, Permanent High Priest through Whom we may approach God's Throne:
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (from Heb. 4)
But you don't read my stuff, so how can you say what I do or do not believe?
Here's what I believe regarding access to God, righteousness, and fruit (if you choose to read it):
- Righteousness, apart from the Law, is a gift from God. God does not take what's already inside us to make us righteous, He gives us His Righteousness in Christ: "21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." (from Rom. 3)
- Because I am in Christ, I have access to the Father and His Throne: "6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (from Jn. 14) Also Hebrews 4:14-16 above.
- Because I have put my faith in and believe in Christ, I accept the command of God relayed in 1 Jn. 3:23 - "And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us."
- Because I am in Christ, and am led by His Spirit, He produces His Fruit in me which I bear. Training by our Father God produces a harvest of righteousness. I'm content to let God and the reader judge whether or not that's the case in me from what they see here from me (those who actually read what I post).
These are God's terms:
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. (from 1 Jn. 3)
I'm good, thanks, according to the standards you've written above
.So glad we've cleared that up!
-JGIG
Which way do you guys want to call it? Let us know, so that we know from which side of your mouthes you are speaking.
I see it as being consistent to what HeRose has been saying all along. Can you show us where HeRose said 1 John 1 was NOT being addressed to believers? Thank you.