The Deceitfulness of New.Modern.Hyper Grace
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Stunnedbygrace - honestly you have not upset me. I do find it interesting how in these exchanges boundaries can be pushed to an extreme. It is a difficult subject, and thankyou for the interaction. I do really care about such issues and am saddened so many are imprisoned in silence to these warring emotions which the Lord came to still and resolve.
Have a nice day, Peter
Have a nice day, Peter
Ok guys. Is this your normal emotional life? This is what you guys think I am experiencing in my life but am in denial about it, a complete hypocrite.
I do not know quite how to put it. No, this is not me. Could I be like this, if the Lord had not saved me and taught me by His Spirit? Yes.
You are emotional children, babies in the Lord if these basic realities of our internal life you have not begun to tackle.
Do you see Jesus behaving like this? Do you see Paul or the apostles?
Now why do I know this? Because unless I knew myself, am honest with myself, question, analyse, have open discussions, poke, pry, I could not have survived my family and walked with the Lord. The Lord made me this way, and has drawn me throughout me life and in everything I have done. Have there been battles, failures and victories? Always.
But Jesus calls us to real purity, real change, real eternal life. How seriously do you take this? It would appear not very, and yet you claim to follow Jesus, the most pure, righteous perfect man whoever walked this earth.
I do not know quite how to put it. No, this is not me. Could I be like this, if the Lord had not saved me and taught me by His Spirit? Yes.
You are emotional children, babies in the Lord if these basic realities of our internal life you have not begun to tackle.
Do you see Jesus behaving like this? Do you see Paul or the apostles?
Now why do I know this? Because unless I knew myself, am honest with myself, question, analyse, have open discussions, poke, pry, I could not have survived my family and walked with the Lord. The Lord made me this way, and has drawn me throughout me life and in everything I have done. Have there been battles, failures and victories? Always.
But Jesus calls us to real purity, real change, real eternal life. How seriously do you take this? It would appear not very, and yet you claim to follow Jesus, the most pure, righteous perfect man whoever walked this earth.
Does a broken man cry in pain? Does one guilty to be destroyed, who knows their guilt and admits their failure say justice is not being done? Does one who declared their rights as just yet were shown empty stand up as if they will be listened to?
What I hear is not a group of contrite sinners caught in sin, not knowing how to change, but people acknowledging need but blasting on as if nothing needs to be different. After all it is not their fault and they cannot do anything to change so it is up to God to make things better.
Sounds like sinners dictating terms to God and refusing to listen. Your hearts and minds testify against you, and all you can do is accuse me to be as lost as you are. Where is the work of redemption in you? Are you just ships at sea without a captain or able to choose how you react, just driven by your passions within?
None of this is what following Jesus is about, it is actually the opposite.
What I hear is not a group of contrite sinners caught in sin, not knowing how to change, but people acknowledging need but blasting on as if nothing needs to be different. After all it is not their fault and they cannot do anything to change so it is up to God to make things better.
Sounds like sinners dictating terms to God and refusing to listen. Your hearts and minds testify against you, and all you can do is accuse me to be as lost as you are. Where is the work of redemption in you? Are you just ships at sea without a captain or able to choose how you react, just driven by your passions within?
None of this is what following Jesus is about, it is actually the opposite.
E
Thats because your so steep in pride and trying to hide your own sin, you are not hearing a word from anyone else.
No one is preaching Gods children will not do his will. We are preaching, if we set up our righteousness, alongside Gods perfect righteousness, We have and are failing to live up to Gods standard.
You trying to hide the fact that you have ever been angry at a brother (which Jesus himself said is murder) should prove to you how wrong you are. But sadly, you can not see your sin, you are blind to it, thus you will never understand until you repent.
No one is preaching Gods children will not do his will. We are preaching, if we set up our righteousness, alongside Gods perfect righteousness, We have and are failing to live up to Gods standard.
You trying to hide the fact that you have ever been angry at a brother (which Jesus himself said is murder) should prove to you how wrong you are. But sadly, you can not see your sin, you are blind to it, thus you will never understand until you repent.
Luke 18:13-14
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
If there is any good in anyone it is because of the Lord Jesus and its a gift.
If there is any obedience in anyone it is because of the Lord Jesus and its a gift.
If there is any righteousness in anyone it is because of the Lord Jesus and its a gift.
I could go on and on and on. But I think you understand.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
If there is any good in anyone it is because of the Lord Jesus and its a gift.
If there is any obedience in anyone it is because of the Lord Jesus and its a gift.
If there is any righteousness in anyone it is because of the Lord Jesus and its a gift.
I could go on and on and on. But I think you understand.
Let me make this simple. Someone confesses to thoughts of murder of people daily.
They declare such thinking is sinful and defiles you.
A group chime in this is funny and amusing, because it is all so true.
That is living in the world and of the world. I do not live like this, I walk in the Spirit.
These words testify against you, you have no conscience or understanding. You have admitted this thought life is the same as going up to an innocent and shooting them. You should be executed, by electric chair, or lethal injection.
It is not something that should be in a mature christians life, anytime, anywhere.
Now trying to turn this into something that I have failed in shows how lost you all are. This is no joke.
This is complete moral bankcruptacy. I do imagine many walk like this into hell itself wondering what could be wrong in their relationship with God.
Is this the level of capitulation we call real spiritual reality in the church? Unless you repent, your lampstand will be stripped away.
They declare such thinking is sinful and defiles you.
A group chime in this is funny and amusing, because it is all so true.
That is living in the world and of the world. I do not live like this, I walk in the Spirit.
These words testify against you, you have no conscience or understanding. You have admitted this thought life is the same as going up to an innocent and shooting them. You should be executed, by electric chair, or lethal injection.
It is not something that should be in a mature christians life, anytime, anywhere.
Now trying to turn this into something that I have failed in shows how lost you all are. This is no joke.
This is complete moral bankcruptacy. I do imagine many walk like this into hell itself wondering what could be wrong in their relationship with God.
Is this the level of capitulation we call real spiritual reality in the church? Unless you repent, your lampstand will be stripped away.
E
Let me make this simple.
If you get mad, Jesus said it is the same as murder
James said we can keep the whole law. Yet if we stumble in just one little point, we are found guilty of the whole law.
Call it murder, Anger, A little white lie, A moment of pride, A sinful thought, whatever you want to call it. you a sinner.
People like you who want to explain it away, and make yourself look good. and be proud of it, (refuse to admit this is you also) are what gives Christianity a bad name, and mocks the death of Christ.
If you get mad, Jesus said it is the same as murder
James said we can keep the whole law. Yet if we stumble in just one little point, we are found guilty of the whole law.
Call it murder, Anger, A little white lie, A moment of pride, A sinful thought, whatever you want to call it. you a sinner.
People like you who want to explain it away, and make yourself look good. and be proud of it, (refuse to admit this is you also) are what gives Christianity a bad name, and mocks the death of Christ.
Grandpa. This publican recognises he is a sinner and is repentant. I am being told both sinning is acceptable and a joke, we are all caught in it, slaves to it, and we just accept Jesus forgives us without repenting or even admiting we need to change.
This is Korahs rebellion claiming the right to stand before the temple with holy coals, to desecrate the offering.
The Lords answer was to bring them up and stand alongside Moses and Aaron. Then they separated them, fire burnt them up from the Lords temple and their houses were swallowed whole into the earth.
Do not test the Lord, for the Lord will bring judgement. You cannot mock the Almighty. You have time to repent and seek the Lords ways, but the time is short.
This is Korahs rebellion claiming the right to stand before the temple with holy coals, to desecrate the offering.
The Lords answer was to bring them up and stand alongside Moses and Aaron. Then they separated them, fire burnt them up from the Lords temple and their houses were swallowed whole into the earth.
Do not test the Lord, for the Lord will bring judgement. You cannot mock the Almighty. You have time to repent and seek the Lords ways, but the time is short.
So lost. I am a sinner saved by grace but I walk in righteousness through Christ.
The whole discussion has been walking in grace and love empowers you to know real righteousness.
It is obviously a lie in your lives, which testifies you do not know Christ. Worse still you are not even interested in humbling yourselves and seeking His ways. I am told if I come to you with sin, and you refuse to repent of it, I am to treat you like those who are not saved.
So unsaved EG welcome to your world.
The whole discussion has been walking in grace and love empowers you to know real righteousness.
It is obviously a lie in your lives, which testifies you do not know Christ. Worse still you are not even interested in humbling yourselves and seeking His ways. I am told if I come to you with sin, and you refuse to repent of it, I am to treat you like those who are not saved.
So unsaved EG welcome to your world.
If the Lord Jesus doesn't give me Righteousness as His Gift then I will not be righteous.
If the Lord Jesus doesn't give me Holiness as His Gift then I will not be holy.
If I am able to stand before the Holy Temple without being burned it will be because the Lord Jesus caused it to be so.
Until you undersand these basic principles you can't even know what repentance is.
If the Lord Jesus doesn't give me Holiness as His Gift then I will not be holy.
If I am able to stand before the Holy Temple without being burned it will be because the Lord Jesus caused it to be so.
Until you undersand these basic principles you can't even know what repentance is.
E
You do not even know my world.
My world says I must repent first, until then I can not have saving faith, all I have is religion. and maybe a mere belief, but even that is fake, because I am still carnal. sold under sin (even if I look religious, because my works are filthy rags, and my good deeds are meaningless)
so please do not talk about my world when you do not even know what my world is..
Until you realise that very law you claim you are saved by STILL CONDEMNS YOU ON A DAILY BASIS apart from the saving grace of Jesus Christ,
You will never understand what true repentance is..
K
This is one problem we run into in understand scripture, and that is people don't even bother with the context......
Getting mad about something and having hatred for somebody has completely two different meanings, they are not one and the same.
The bible says we can get angry (and it not be a sin), it only becomes a sin if you don't deal with it and put it away but instead stew on it tell turns to rage and seeks revenge for what was done to you !!!
Hatred for your brother being the same as murder, as the context here is Jesus was saying here if you wish to see bad things come on the one you hate and even wish them dead. Then your anger has grown beyond just being mad and turned into wanting vengeance, thus makes you guilty of murder.
Nowhere does the bible say getting mad or angry is the same as murder, you have to read that into the scripture and go by a false context to get that.
Everybody has wrongful thoughts at times, they would lie if they say they don't, but it is how you deal with them on if they become sin or not !!!
Getting mad about something and having hatred for somebody has completely two different meanings, they are not one and the same.
The bible says we can get angry (and it not be a sin), it only becomes a sin if you don't deal with it and put it away but instead stew on it tell turns to rage and seeks revenge for what was done to you !!!
Hatred for your brother being the same as murder, as the context here is Jesus was saying here if you wish to see bad things come on the one you hate and even wish them dead. Then your anger has grown beyond just being mad and turned into wanting vengeance, thus makes you guilty of murder.
Nowhere does the bible say getting mad or angry is the same as murder, you have to read that into the scripture and go by a false context to get that.
Everybody has wrongful thoughts at times, they would lie if they say they don't, but it is how you deal with them on if they become sin or not !!!
K
First I don't anybody is disagreeing with Jesus Righteousness and Holiness being imputed to us, but what we have a problem with is the fact that some speak as though this Righteousness and Holiness is only something that takes place inside of us.
That is a false understanding as His Righteousness and Holiness will teach and guide us to walk the same on the outside, meaning how we act, talk, and treat others will reflect Christ abiding in us.
Which is why it says in God's Word if we can not see this fruit of the Spirit in others then they are not born again, and thus not His !!!
When a person refuses that guidance and the chastisement of the Lord to correct their sinful ways to His righteousness, then it states these become illegitimate and "not sons."
Repentance is a change of mind to stop walking in our old sinful selves and instead put on and walk in His righteousness !!!
I agree. What amazes me is not the random thoughts or reactions we have but is how many do not see dwelling on the wrong things leads to sinful actions. It is not the dwelling that is sinful but the action that is the fruit. So the dwelling becomes the unclean act.
It is like talking to a brainwashed zombies who assume I believe a set of ideas when I do not. But God help them, they need help. The more time I spend here the more holes in their life approach appear, which does have real consequences. Churches do fall and collapse because of this lack of reality. When the words do not match the actions, sin rips it all apart.
It is like talking to a brainwashed zombies who assume I believe a set of ideas when I do not. But God help them, they need help. The more time I spend here the more holes in their life approach appear, which does have real consequences. Churches do fall and collapse because of this lack of reality. When the words do not match the actions, sin rips it all apart.