Common Misconceptions Of Hyper-Grace

[ladylynn]

There is a thread on parental forgiveness for those that are interested in that subject. Click below.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-forgiveness-rebuilding-veil-jesus-broke.html

Here is an excellent video to answer the question..is there a 2 - tier system for forgiveness...Those that have an interest in this subject can watch it. It'll bless you and make you fall deeper in love with the perfect sacrifice of our Lord!

[video=youtube;QS2mzHP1Cx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS2mzHP1Cx4[/video]

I'm always blessed when I hear this message by Prince. I sure hope you listen to it again Phil36 because those questions you asked just recently are clearly answered with scripture. How did you miss it!??

It is interesting about how the Bible mentions those who are going into the lake of fire 'first' are those who are FEARFUL and UNBELIEVING. We usually think of those other sins like murder and such but God's Word calls out these sins that we would call of lesser evil. God calls out these sins and those who do these sins go in the lake of fire first.

It is always encouraging for me to know how God's thoughts are always higher than mine and His ways are always higher than mine. The part about holiness for instance... we humans would say a really holy person would be all serious thinking of the miseries and sins in the world and how God's holiness is against such things.....(look like they are baptized in lemon juice)

But true holiness brings out the JOY of the Lord and that joy strengthens us believers to overcome the world because we are focusing on Christ that He already overcame the world and we are in Him and He loves us. We fight the good fight of faith from a place of victory, not defeat. Makes all the difference in the world in our daily lives as believers.

I was for sure fearful and being fearful meant I was not trusting Christ but my own worthiness so I was also unbelieving. No fruit can come from that sin even for the believer who is on their way to heaven but lives a life of fear. I've since repented and now believe He will take the burdens of the day and work them out for my good no matter what they are.

Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things we hope for, being the proof of things we do not see and the conviction of their reality (faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses)


Faith believing what is not seen yet today but is confident in the One who loves them to bring those things to pass in His time. Knowing He actually will and resting right now in Him is obedience. Casting our care upon Him for He cares for you.

 

[ember]

I do believe that a proper...ie scripturally and therefore spiritually sound grasp of GRACE ...God's grace (unmerited favor) actually accentuates our desperate need of grace because of our inability to create our own perfection...no matter how many times we 'repent, confess or run to the altar'

It is actually a misunderstanding...that is human 'reasoning', that continues to insist that grace means something other than what it does mean

It is also telling, IMO, that anyone should have to apologize for simply believing rather than contorting their way painfully along and making sure they have fulfilled their daily quota of self flagellation

If said person actually understood what they claim they do in fact understand, they would grab grace, thank God for it and take off running

 

[Magenta]

I was unaware of there being a daily quota for self flagellation.
Why is being made aware of one's sin portrayed in that light, any ways?
It just looks like more deception from any who refuse to acknowledge ongoing sin.

 

[DP]

I do believe that a proper...ie scripturally and therefore spiritually sound grasp of GRACE ...God's grace (unmerited favor) actually accentuates our desperate need of grace because of our inability to create our own perfection...no matter how many times we 'repent, confess or run to the altar'

It is actually a misunderstanding...that is human 'reasoning', that continues to insist that grace means something other than what it does mean

It is also telling, IMO, that anyone should have to apologize for simply believing rather than contorting their way painfully along and making sure they have fulfilled their daily quota of self flagellation

If said person actually understood what they claim they do in fact understand, they would grab grace, thank God for it and take off running

OK, the gloves are off.

We are ONLY saved by God's Grace through His Son Jesus Christ according to... our Faith. The law can't save us. Done with that point.

Included with that Grace are the commands of our Lord and His Apostles to do a 'walk' to keep from falling away from Him, so they taught about the need for an on-going relationship with Him. Galatians 5 is one of the strongest examples by Apostle Paul.

There are sins we as believers on Christ should never... have, like murder, thefts, rape, etc., things that will put us back under bondage to the law, because God has still put His laws into man's society that will put us in jail for those kind of sins. But that still does not mean the sinner can't be saved in Christ Jesus.

But it will influence ones on-going relationship with our Lord Jesus, which is WHY... He showed in Matt.7 many will come up to Him on the day of His return saying, "Lord, Lord...", and He will tell those to get away from Him, those who did iniquity, that He never KNEW them.

I hold that Christ's Millennium will allow fallen believers to work these things out then with our Lord Jesus, under a state of correction and... standing in judgment like Ezek.44 teaches for that time. As per Isaiah, that time will be a time of correction for many that have strayed.

So the question to the believer, is where... do they want to be when our Lord Jesus returns? outside the gates of the holy city with the wicked, or inside the gates with right to the tree of life? There will be a separation between those who remained faithful in their walk with Him, vs. those who think to go off on their own without a relationship with Him per the walk Paul taught. And that walk includes asking Him forgiveness when we mess up, keeping that relationship strong with Him.

 

[ember]

I was unaware of there being a daily quota for self flagellation.
Why is being made aware of one's sin portrayed in that light, any ways?
It just looks like more deception from any who refuse to acknowledge ongoing sin.

Well that was my point...sin is so deceptive

Grace plus anything is no longer grace

 

[PeterJens]

Well that was my point...sin is so deceptive

Grace plus anything is no longer grace

Let us expand on this. Sin is not worth taking seriously, it is a blemish just to be ignored. It is not a root cause of rebellion, to be worked through, and sorted out. I mean murder, theft, blasphemy, coveting, adultery, sexual immorality, lying, giving false testimony are just accidents which happen by mistake.

Oh no, what we are talking about is saying sorry because it makes you feel good rather than because the Spirit told you to do it.

It is this kind of simple junk that gets people lost in Hell without knowing why. It is hypocritical garbage.
If you sin you need to seriously sort it out.

 

[ember]

Why do folks insist on getting all steamed and defensive over remarks they attribute to others but in actual fact are simply their own hobby horse retorts fired off in an attempt to legitimize arguments that are actually NOT being made by those with whom they wish to have a spat?

Ben covered these shallow retorts in his op and others have responded in like mind

 

[BenFTW]

Why do folks insist on getting all steamed and defensive over remarks they attribute to others but in actual fact are simply their own hobby horse retorts fired off in an attempt to legitimize arguments that are actually NOT being made by those with whom they wish to have a spat?

Ben covered these shallow retorts in his op and others have responded in like mind

Exactly, that is one reason this thread is edifying because you can post a misconception of God's grace and then address it through scripture. Already a lot of the big ones have been presented and addressed but even if someone desires to do a repeat of one already addressed, please feel free to do so. It may be another angle taken on it that opens our eyes further.

 

[Grace777x70]

Is it Wrong to Ask God for Forgiveness?

Beware the grace Pharisees who jump on you if you dare to ask God for forgiveness. They will say you’re operating in unbelief and legalism.”
This claim is sometimes made against those who preach grace. Because we say God has forgiven all your sins, apparently it’s wrong to ask him to forgive you. Apparently asking God to give what he has already provided is an insulting sin.
But I don’t buy it. It’s true that God has forgiven you, but if asking helps you to receive, then by all means ask!

There is nothing wrong in coming to the throne of grace in your hour of need to receive mercy and find grace.

If you need forgiveness, God has an ample supply. It’s not wrong to ask. What’s wrong is telling people God won’t forgive them unless they first do things like repent or confess all their sins. What’s wrong is telling the poor and needy they’ve got to pay to dine at the table of the Lord’s abundance. What’s wrong is putting price tags on the gift of grace.

It’s not wrong to ask God for anything you need. He’s your Father and he cares for you. He wants you to present your requests to him (Php. 4:6). If you have made mistakes and are need of forgiveness, have the freedom to ask knowing that he will give you what you ask for.

But here’s something you may not appreciate: God will forgive you even if you don’t ask, even if you forget to ask. How do I know? Because he’s already done it.

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace. (Eph 1:7)

Perhaps you think you have to ask as in, “If I don’t ask, God won’t forgive me.” That’s like saying, “Christ didn’t carry all my sin,” which he did, or “Jesus needs to come and die again,” which he won’t, or “God needs my permission to forgive me,” which he doesn’t.

By all means have the freedom to repent, confess, ask, say sorry, or turn cartwheels if you wish, but do these things out of a sense of gratitude rather than obligation. Understand that you are not forgiven because you do the right things or ask in the proper manner. You are forgiven because your Father loves you and abounds in grace towards you.

It’s essential that you see this.

From God’s side, forgiveness is a done deal. There remain no more sacrifices for sin. But from our side sin may be a big problem indeed. Many are crippled by guilt and condemnation. Others remain slaves to sin and are incapable of making healthy choices. The solution is not to buy into a message of dead works—“Try harder! Turn from sin! Beg God to forgive you!” The remedy is to receive the grace that has been provided in Jesus Christ.

Why do you need to receive the gift of forgiveness if you are already forgiven? Because grace will change you. It will free you from sin’s brutal and condemning grip.

Unwanted grace is worthless. Leave God’s grace on the shelf and it won’t benefit you. This is why the New Testament writers exhort us to believe the good news. They’re basically saying, “Quit beating yourself up over sin and trying to make yourself clean. Trust Jesus and rest in his finished work.”

Receiving grace is simply a matter of agreeing with God. It’s thanking him that through Jesus “I have been cleansed from all unrighteousness, and all my sins have been taken away.” It’s giving him thanks in all circumstances because his grace abounds in all circumstances.

Believe it! We have a good, loving Father!...and a great salvation in our Lord!

 

[DP]

Why do folks insist on getting all steamed and defensive over remarks they attribute to others but in actual fact are simply their own hobby horse retorts fired off in an attempt to legitimize arguments that are actually NOT being made by those with whom they wish to have a spat?

Ben covered these shallow retorts in his op and others have responded in like mind

I don't see pointing you to what Scripture actually teaches as getting steamed up, or looking for a spat.

 

[PeterJens]

Thought life

I have found it interesting how out of control peoples thought lives are. Anger, lust, envy, jealousy, covetting etc.

Now a lot of things I do not do, because I have dealt with issues, or they are not issues for me.
Few actually are honest what they do, or how far they go.

It came to light because I used the word revenge. It triggered the idea of murder, fantasy, hatred is someone else.

I put a list of psychopathic tendencies and traits and surprisingly to me people confirmed they do these things.

So hyper-grace seems to be full of people overcome and defeated by a sinful thought life?
Is this true, or are you really mature spiritual people who have it really figured out and the purity echoes with you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thought life

I have found it interesting how out of control peoples thought lives are. Anger, lust, envy, jealousy, covetting etc.

Now a lot of things I do not do, because I have dealt with issues, or they are not issues for me.
Few actually are honest what they do, or how far they go.

It came to light because I used the word revenge. It triggered the idea of murder, fantasy, hatred is someone else.

I put a list of psychopathic tendencies and traits and surprisingly to me people confirmed they do these things.

So hyper-grace seems to be full of people overcome and defeated by a sinful thought life?
Is this true, or are you really mature spiritual people who have it really figured out and the purity echoes with you?

who is defeated?

I am only defeated if I reject grace, and have to hide my sin behind religion and good works. For those who are adopted by God, who were given the power to be called sons of God based on their true faith in him, there is no defeat..

there is no defeat in grace or hypergrace,, Because Christ already won the victroy.. I may lose some battles, but the victory, I share in with Christ.

 

[NayborBear]

I liken this "hyper grace" thingy, much like I picture how God instructed Gideon in how and whom to choose His Army. Only those who kneeled and lapped up the whole river, were chosen....Because, these people would FIGHT, IRREGARDLESS, as opposed to those who palmed the water into their hands. Carefully, picking out that which they deemed unfit to drink. THESE, God deemed as unfit in doing warfare AGAINST His enemy/ies. As they would only fight, when it seemed right to them to do so.

So, if ye THINK this war is not coming to flesh against flesh? Just turn on the T.V., and, keep cupping the water in yer hands, and separating out that which you may deem as being unfit for human/spiritual consumption!


Canon fodder we may be, but, at LEAST, we'll go down FIGHTING!!! And, sure you can take my gun/s away....FROM MY RIGOR MORTISED FINGERS!!

 

[Grandpa]

Thought life

I have found it interesting how out of control peoples thought lives are. Anger, lust, envy, jealousy, covetting etc.

Now a lot of things I do not do, because I have dealt with issues, or they are not issues for me.
Few actually are honest what they do, or how far they go.

It came to light because I used the word revenge. It triggered the idea of murder, fantasy, hatred is someone else.

I put a list of psychopathic tendencies and traits and surprisingly to me people confirmed they do these things.

So hyper-grace seems to be full of people overcome and defeated by a sinful thought life?
Is this true, or are you really mature spiritual people who have it really figured out and the purity echoes with you?

Its hard sometimes, to tell where these thoughts come from.

Do they strictly come from our own hearts and imaginings?

Or can certain images and feelings be placed on us spiritually?

Something I have wondered about. I know some thoughts I have do not come from me. I know some images do not come from me.

So where do they come from? Some from the enemy, some from the Lord. Some from myself. I suppose we won't know the extent of it till we are with the Lord.

 

[DP]

Thought life

I have found it interesting how out of control peoples thought lives are. Anger, lust, envy, jealousy, covetting etc.

Now a lot of things I do not do, because I have dealt with issues, or they are not issues for me.
Few actually are honest what they do, or how far they go.

It came to light because I used the word revenge. It triggered the idea of murder, fantasy, hatred is someone else.

I put a list of psychopathic tendencies and traits and surprisingly to me people confirmed they do these things.

So hyper-grace seems to be full of people overcome and defeated by a sinful thought life?
Is this true, or are you really mature spiritual people who have it really figured out and the purity echoes with you?

You almost talk like it's a sin... to be watchful of our selves, and that examining our own behavior is like a sin in itself! That kind of concept of not examining our sin is a philosophy of man, and is not of God and His Word.

 

[BenFTW]

If anyone has a good angle on this misconception I think it could be helpful.

Misconception: Hyper-grace theology confuses sanctification and justification.

Truth: A lot of the issues arise out of putting the cart before the horse.

PS: Hoping someone can provide a nice outline against this misconception.

 

[NayborBear]

Its hard sometimes, to tell where these thoughts come from.

Do they strictly come from our own hearts and imaginings?

Or can certain images and feelings be placed on us spiritually?

Something I have wondered about. I know some thoughts I have do not come from me. I know some images do not come from me.

So where do they come from? Some from the enemy, some from the Lord. Some from myself. I suppose we won't know the extent of it till we are with the Lord.

Far be it for me to say to you, that, is actually one thing, or, this, is actually something else. I can say, that the Holy Spirit can manipulate things in your mind/soul/spirit/flesh/inner man, to cause you to grow strong/er.

And????.......This can feel mighty strange, when such matters are in "implementation mode."

TEST THE SPIRITS!! Those that are of God, rather enjoy being tested. They don't mind a bit!!

Just beware, that just as soon, as you would like for God to DO IT ALL, for ya?

RIDE OVER, PARK IS CLOSED!

 

[DP]

Its hard sometimes, to tell where these thoughts come from.

Do they strictly come from our own hearts and imaginings?

Or can certain images and feelings be placed on us spiritually?

Something I have wondered about. I know some thoughts I have do not come from me. I know some images do not come from me.

So where do they come from? Some from the enemy, some from the Lord. Some from myself. I suppose we won't know the extent of it till we are with the Lord.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who believe on Christ Jesus and 'listen' to Him. He convicts us when we sin, and it will always pertain to God's laws He has already given that still stand, as Jesus did not nail all of God's laws to the cross, but only the ordinances in the law.

This is why Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1:8-11 that the law was not made for the righteous, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners. And that's a New Testament doctrine by the way.

So brethren in Christ Jesus have no excuse not being able to recognize sin in their lives. Do some really bad sins and the enforcers of the law will show you the hard way, putting you in jail or prison. Maybe that's what it takes to get some hard-headed folk's attention though, and show them what listening to the wolves in sheep's clothing deceives them into.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If anyone has a good angle on this misconception I think it could be helpful.

Misconception: Hyper-grace theology confuses sanctification and justification.

Truth: A lot of the issues arise out of putting the cart before the horse.

I would say it is legalism which confuses these too. They say hypergrace does? I would love to hear how..

 

[ember]

Exactly, that is one reason this thread is edifying because you can post a misconception of God's grace and then address it through scripture. Already a lot of the big ones have been presented and addressed but even if someone desires to do a repeat of one already addressed, please feel free to do so. It may be another angle taken on it that opens our eyes further.

Agreed

I pray some will recognize the circular pattern of thought process rather than the progression of walking into and in the Light.

I realize that statement might be interpreted as me thinking I think of myself as superior but that is not at all what I think

Rather, I wish all would walk in the love of Christ and in the freedom that we all long for

I see a great difficulty in interpreting scripture through the lens of our own experience. Scripture is not for private interpretation. Our experience is singular and in that regard will never bring us together nor will it contribute to growth