Is This a Hyper-Grace Doctrine of Men FORUM?
- Thread starter DP
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It's because the enemy is coming in like a flood. I think they should start a Joseph Prince cult following forum to keep all the spam out of this one. 
You would fall under his concern for this forum too, as you continue to make threads on hyper-grace as well. lol
I've made what.. maybe 3 threads total on hyper grace. Yer buddy makes at least that many every day!
Last edited:
Ephesians 4:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
This might help to explain what is really going on.....the Holy Spirit in you will lead you into the goodness of our Lord Jesus and in His finished work on our behalf. .because of His great love for us! He is awesome and mighty to save!
[video=vimeo;11804054]https://vimeo.com/11804054[/video]
[video=vimeo;11804054]https://vimeo.com/11804054[/video]
Shouldn't that cause you to yell, "Hallelujah!"? The Gospel is being shared, rejoice.
Amen!,...if we ever get tired of hearing about Jesus and His love and grace for us...we are in deep trouble!.....we are preaching obedience to the faith!!!
Romans 16:25-27 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past,
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
[SUP]27 [/SUP] to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.
Romans 16:25-27 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past,
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
[SUP]27 [/SUP] to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.
Shouldn't that cause you to yell, "Hallelujah!"? The Gospel is being shared, rejoice.
That's sad. Only one person? It makes me realize I am not speaking about Grace enough.
Thanks for the encouragement. Here is some of Joseph Prince on why we hook ourselves when we concentrate on sin.
The Key To Effortless Victorious Living
People are afraid to preach the gospel of grace because they think that if they preach grace, believers will go out and sin. They seem to have more confidence in man’s flesh to keep the law than in the power of the cross. Yet, it is not grace that stirs up sin, it is the law. (Rom.7:7, 8)
Don’t forget that after Israel boasted to God, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do,” (Ex.19:8) they broke the very first commandment and made a golden calf at the foot of Mount Sinai. Have you ever read, “the strength of sin is the law”? (1 Cor.15:56) The more you try to keep the law and not sin, the worse it becomes. For example, if I tell you not to think of a purple dinosaur right now, what is the first thing that pops into your head?
Come on, I told you not to think of a purple dinosaur. Get that picture of the purple dinosaur out of your head! (Say, are you thinking of Barney?)
The more you try not to see a purple dinosaur, the more your mind is occupied with that silly purple dinosaur. You see, you cannot help it. The harder you try, the more you will see that purple dinosaur. In the same way, the more you put yourself under the law — the more you try not to sin — the more conscious you will be of sin.
Imagine a man who knows that he has a problem with lust. When he gets up in the morning, he tells the Lord, “Lord, give me victory today. Help me not to lust after women. I do not want to lust, so help me not to lust today. I will not lust. I will not lust. I will not...”
But the moment he steps out of his apartment and sees someone walking by in a skirt, what do you think would be his first thought? It would be a lustful thought! The more he tries not to lust, the more his mind is occupied with lust. In fact, anything in a skirt would trigger his mind to lust, even if the person walking by in a “skirt” is a Scotsman in a kilt!
Imagine another scenario where a lady says to herself, “I really can’t stand that colleague. She always seems to say things to me that make me so angry. But since I am a Christian, I will do my best to love her. I will obey the law. I will love her. I will love her as myself. I will...” Even as she drives to work, this lady thinks to herself, “I will not be angry with her when I see her. I will love her.”
But guess what? The moment she steps into her office, the colleague that she is trying to love greets her with a bright and chirpy “Good morning!” Instantly, instead of love, she feels anger and irritation — “It’s the way she says ‘good morning’. It’s so pretentious! She’s such a hypocrite! I hate her!” And the more she tries to like her colleague, the worse it becomes. Have you been there before?
Let’s take another Christian who has a problem with lust and anger. But this Christian believes in grace, so when he wakes up, he tells the Lord, “Lord, I am not even going to try today. I know that I cannot overcome this on my own. Lord, I rest in You. You live the victorious life for me. I cannot overcome lust by my own strength. I cannot love that colleague by my own strength. My eyes are on You. Even though I cannot, I know that You can. Thank You for Your grace. I will just be cool."
Then, he leaves his home and goes to work. As he is driving to work, he sees a huge billboard showing a woman in a bikini. And when he feels tempted to lust, he says, “Thank You Father, I am the righteousness of God in Christ. I know that You are here with me. I have not lost Your presence. Even when I fail, You are with me. Thank You for Your grace.” The temptation comes and the temptation goes. He is at rest. He does not pull over to the side of the road and lament, “Oh God, why is this happening again? Please forgive me, Lord!” because he knows that the more he confesses and focuses on his weakness, the worse it becomes.
By the way, do you know what people, who believe in confessing their sins in order to be forgiven, usually do? Many a time, they say to themselves, “I will save my confessions for tonight. In the meantime, since I am already guilty of lust, let me watch this raunchy movie and indulge in this men’s magazine. I will compile these sins and confess them all at the end of the day.”
You see, people who are living under guilt and condemnation are doomed to repeat their sins. They think that since fellowship with God has already been broken, they might as well go all the way and indulge their weaknesses before they reconcile themselves with God.
On the other hand, believers under grace know that they are always righteous and that fellowship with God is never broken. Even when they fail, they know that Jesus is still with them. They know that righteousness is a gift and that the Holy Spirit is present to convict them of their righteousness in Christ. The more they believe that they are righteous, the more they experience true victory over sin. My friend, we’ve established this before: Right believing always produces right living.
Let’s come back to the Christian who believes in grace. Now, when he steps into the office, he is greeted by the colleague he dislikes. This colleague chirps a shrill “Good morning!” right into his ears. Even though he is irritated and feels anger rising within him, he is able to give thanks: “Lord, thank You for loving me even when I feel like this.” Instead of saying, “God, forgive me for being such a failure,” he is able to rise above his feelings of anger and irritation, and catch a fresh revelation of God’s unconditional love for him.
Instead of feeling irritated and angry with himself for being irritated and angry with his colleague, he overflows with God’s grace and is empowered with a supernatural ability to love even the most unlikable colleague. Can you see the difference between those who believe in God’s grace and forgiveness, and those who try to overcome sin by their own efforts? Those who depend on God’s grace see His power flowing in their lives!
My friend, every once in a while, you will be tempted to sin. But while the law only stirs up your flesh to be more aware of sin, grace gives you the power to be effortlessly victorious over sin. That is why Apostle Paul said, “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” (Rom.6:14) When you put yourself under the law, the moment you are tempted, you condemn yourself, and in that state of guilt and condemnation, you are more likely to follow through with that temptation and sin.
However, when you put yourself under the grace of God, the moment you are tempted, you receive a fresh dose of His grace and His forgiveness. You see yourself righteous and this gives you the power to rise above the temptation.
Awake to righteousness and sin not. (1 Cor.15:34) When you believe that you are righteous even when you sin, your thoughts and actions will come in alignment with your believing. In contrast, believers who do not know that they are righteous even when they sin will remain in their cycle of sin.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, probably the first pastor ever to build a mega-church in London, the Metropolitan Tabernacle, was a famous and respected preacher in the early 1900s. He was known as the “prince of preachers”, and regardless of which denomination they belonged to, many ministers and theologians respected and still respect Spurgeon. This is what Spurgeon had to say about grace:
No doctrine is so calculated to preserve a man from sin as the doctrine of the grace of God. Those who have called it “a licentious doctrine” did not know anything at all about it. Poor ignorant things, they little knew that their own vile stuff was the most licentious doctrine under heaven. If they knew the grace of God in truth, they would soon see that there was no preservative from lying like a knowledge that we are elect of God from the foundation of the world. There is nothing like a belief in my eternal perseverance, and the immutability of my Father’s affection, which can keep me near to Him from a motive of simple gratitude.
Nothing makes a man so virtuous as belief of the truth. A lying doctrine will soon beget a lying practice. A man cannot have an erroneous belief without by-and-by having an erroneous life. I believe the one thing naturally begets the other. Of all men, those have the most disinterested piety, the sublimest reverence, the most ardent devotion, who believe that they are saved by grace, without works, through faith, and that not of themselves, it is the gift of God. Christians should take heed, and see that it always is so, lest by any means Christ should be crucified afresh, and put to an open shame.
Isn’t that beautiful? Spurgeon was saying that if your behavior is wrong, it is because there is something wrong with your beliefs. The grace of God is the power to preserve you from sin.
Right believing leads to right living. Believe that you are righteous because of the blood of Jesus, and the result of believing this will be righteous thoughts and actions.
If your behavior is wrong, it is because there is something wrong with your beliefs.
The Key To Effortless Victorious Living
People are afraid to preach the gospel of grace because they think that if they preach grace, believers will go out and sin. They seem to have more confidence in man’s flesh to keep the law than in the power of the cross. Yet, it is not grace that stirs up sin, it is the law. (Rom.7:7, 8)
Don’t forget that after Israel boasted to God, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do,” (Ex.19:8) they broke the very first commandment and made a golden calf at the foot of Mount Sinai. Have you ever read, “the strength of sin is the law”? (1 Cor.15:56) The more you try to keep the law and not sin, the worse it becomes. For example, if I tell you not to think of a purple dinosaur right now, what is the first thing that pops into your head?
Come on, I told you not to think of a purple dinosaur. Get that picture of the purple dinosaur out of your head! (Say, are you thinking of Barney?)
The more you try not to see a purple dinosaur, the more your mind is occupied with that silly purple dinosaur. You see, you cannot help it. The harder you try, the more you will see that purple dinosaur. In the same way, the more you put yourself under the law — the more you try not to sin — the more conscious you will be of sin.
Imagine a man who knows that he has a problem with lust. When he gets up in the morning, he tells the Lord, “Lord, give me victory today. Help me not to lust after women. I do not want to lust, so help me not to lust today. I will not lust. I will not lust. I will not...”
But the moment he steps out of his apartment and sees someone walking by in a skirt, what do you think would be his first thought? It would be a lustful thought! The more he tries not to lust, the more his mind is occupied with lust. In fact, anything in a skirt would trigger his mind to lust, even if the person walking by in a “skirt” is a Scotsman in a kilt!
Imagine another scenario where a lady says to herself, “I really can’t stand that colleague. She always seems to say things to me that make me so angry. But since I am a Christian, I will do my best to love her. I will obey the law. I will love her. I will love her as myself. I will...” Even as she drives to work, this lady thinks to herself, “I will not be angry with her when I see her. I will love her.”
But guess what? The moment she steps into her office, the colleague that she is trying to love greets her with a bright and chirpy “Good morning!” Instantly, instead of love, she feels anger and irritation — “It’s the way she says ‘good morning’. It’s so pretentious! She’s such a hypocrite! I hate her!” And the more she tries to like her colleague, the worse it becomes. Have you been there before?
Let’s take another Christian who has a problem with lust and anger. But this Christian believes in grace, so when he wakes up, he tells the Lord, “Lord, I am not even going to try today. I know that I cannot overcome this on my own. Lord, I rest in You. You live the victorious life for me. I cannot overcome lust by my own strength. I cannot love that colleague by my own strength. My eyes are on You. Even though I cannot, I know that You can. Thank You for Your grace. I will just be cool."
Then, he leaves his home and goes to work. As he is driving to work, he sees a huge billboard showing a woman in a bikini. And when he feels tempted to lust, he says, “Thank You Father, I am the righteousness of God in Christ. I know that You are here with me. I have not lost Your presence. Even when I fail, You are with me. Thank You for Your grace.” The temptation comes and the temptation goes. He is at rest. He does not pull over to the side of the road and lament, “Oh God, why is this happening again? Please forgive me, Lord!” because he knows that the more he confesses and focuses on his weakness, the worse it becomes.
By the way, do you know what people, who believe in confessing their sins in order to be forgiven, usually do? Many a time, they say to themselves, “I will save my confessions for tonight. In the meantime, since I am already guilty of lust, let me watch this raunchy movie and indulge in this men’s magazine. I will compile these sins and confess them all at the end of the day.”
You see, people who are living under guilt and condemnation are doomed to repeat their sins. They think that since fellowship with God has already been broken, they might as well go all the way and indulge their weaknesses before they reconcile themselves with God.
On the other hand, believers under grace know that they are always righteous and that fellowship with God is never broken. Even when they fail, they know that Jesus is still with them. They know that righteousness is a gift and that the Holy Spirit is present to convict them of their righteousness in Christ. The more they believe that they are righteous, the more they experience true victory over sin. My friend, we’ve established this before: Right believing always produces right living.
Let’s come back to the Christian who believes in grace. Now, when he steps into the office, he is greeted by the colleague he dislikes. This colleague chirps a shrill “Good morning!” right into his ears. Even though he is irritated and feels anger rising within him, he is able to give thanks: “Lord, thank You for loving me even when I feel like this.” Instead of saying, “God, forgive me for being such a failure,” he is able to rise above his feelings of anger and irritation, and catch a fresh revelation of God’s unconditional love for him.
Instead of feeling irritated and angry with himself for being irritated and angry with his colleague, he overflows with God’s grace and is empowered with a supernatural ability to love even the most unlikable colleague. Can you see the difference between those who believe in God’s grace and forgiveness, and those who try to overcome sin by their own efforts? Those who depend on God’s grace see His power flowing in their lives!
My friend, every once in a while, you will be tempted to sin. But while the law only stirs up your flesh to be more aware of sin, grace gives you the power to be effortlessly victorious over sin. That is why Apostle Paul said, “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” (Rom.6:14) When you put yourself under the law, the moment you are tempted, you condemn yourself, and in that state of guilt and condemnation, you are more likely to follow through with that temptation and sin.
However, when you put yourself under the grace of God, the moment you are tempted, you receive a fresh dose of His grace and His forgiveness. You see yourself righteous and this gives you the power to rise above the temptation.
Awake to righteousness and sin not. (1 Cor.15:34) When you believe that you are righteous even when you sin, your thoughts and actions will come in alignment with your believing. In contrast, believers who do not know that they are righteous even when they sin will remain in their cycle of sin.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, probably the first pastor ever to build a mega-church in London, the Metropolitan Tabernacle, was a famous and respected preacher in the early 1900s. He was known as the “prince of preachers”, and regardless of which denomination they belonged to, many ministers and theologians respected and still respect Spurgeon. This is what Spurgeon had to say about grace:
No doctrine is so calculated to preserve a man from sin as the doctrine of the grace of God. Those who have called it “a licentious doctrine” did not know anything at all about it. Poor ignorant things, they little knew that their own vile stuff was the most licentious doctrine under heaven. If they knew the grace of God in truth, they would soon see that there was no preservative from lying like a knowledge that we are elect of God from the foundation of the world. There is nothing like a belief in my eternal perseverance, and the immutability of my Father’s affection, which can keep me near to Him from a motive of simple gratitude.
Nothing makes a man so virtuous as belief of the truth. A lying doctrine will soon beget a lying practice. A man cannot have an erroneous belief without by-and-by having an erroneous life. I believe the one thing naturally begets the other. Of all men, those have the most disinterested piety, the sublimest reverence, the most ardent devotion, who believe that they are saved by grace, without works, through faith, and that not of themselves, it is the gift of God. Christians should take heed, and see that it always is so, lest by any means Christ should be crucified afresh, and put to an open shame.
Isn’t that beautiful? Spurgeon was saying that if your behavior is wrong, it is because there is something wrong with your beliefs. The grace of God is the power to preserve you from sin.
Right believing leads to right living. Believe that you are righteous because of the blood of Jesus, and the result of believing this will be righteous thoughts and actions.
If your behavior is wrong, it is because there is something wrong with your beliefs.
C
coby
Guest
LOL..that made me laugh..what was the outcome?..are women allowed to wear pants or is the fire of God's wrath coming down upon the "disobedient"?
The reason Mr. prince and his followers can't cease from sin is because they have not been truly born again of the Holy Spirit. You cannot believe yourself to be righteous no matter how much thought you take about God's grace. Believing yourself to be righteous when you are not is nothing more than delusional, as is shown by proclaiming yourself to be something when your sinful actions prove otherwise. This believing yourself to be righteous is nothing more than a self proclaimed self-righteousness, and shows the error in Mr Princes thinking.
You cannot give new birth to yourself no matter how much wishful thinking you do. You are either born again of the Holy Spirit, or you are not. Those who are born again of the Holy Spirit will be able to cease from sin, those who cannot cease from sin are called cursed children in scripture. This was in response to post #15.
You cannot give new birth to yourself no matter how much wishful thinking you do. You are either born again of the Holy Spirit, or you are not. Those who are born again of the Holy Spirit will be able to cease from sin, those who cannot cease from sin are called cursed children in scripture. This was in response to post #15.
Last edited: