Grace is not a message - it's a person - Jesus

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Nov 22, 2015
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#21
There is absolutely no difference between grace and truth..they are both the same thing...and yes..God is only love...He IS love..

God IS love and His justice and wrath is a manifestation of His love. Obviously people have not been reading nor listening to what has been said about the love and grace of God.

It's impossible to have truth and not have grace.....post ##4 talks about that.


Well it's not "God is love, or God is grace", that they attack I think, and I really don't see them as "attacks" either. First those are attributes of God no question, and on a level we can't even comprehend, I think the opposition comes when it's suggested that God is ONLY love, or ONLY grace. He has more than those attributes, He is also Holy, and here's the big one, just. God is not ONLY just love alone, He is also justice and a level we can't understand either. That mean no sin goes unpunished, so how does an infinitely just, and infinitely merciful and loving God not contradict Himself? That is the question Jesus and the cross answers, that is why people seem to "attack" when you say or suggest God is love (as in only) and Jesus is grace (as in only). To me Jesus is also truth, I honestly feel when you look up truth in the dictionary it should have Jesus as the definition, but He is still so much more than that as well. I want to know ALL of God that I can, not just the parts that I feel are the best.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#22
There is absolutely no difference between grace and truth..they are both the same thing...and yes..God is only love...He IS love..

God IS love and His justice and wrath is a manifestation of His love. Obviously people have not been reading nor listening to what has been said about the love and grace of God.

It's impossible to have truth and not have grace.....post ##4 talks about that.
To be honest I didn't leave this comment to disagree with any point being made in the OP, just was suggesting a possible reason for the "attacks" you were talking about. Sorry if it came across like a disagreement with the points you made up there.
 
C

Complete_In_Him

Guest
#23
I didn't watch the vid, (why am I so happy right now). I did read most of the thread. God is love, we know this, because the scripture says this. And, we know Jesus is the way and the truth and the life, for the same reason. Grace was given birth in eternity, it was the way, through the faith of God the Father, to the faith of the Son, to promise eternal life. Eternal life was created, it's a gift, Christ received this gift as a promise, first (faith to Faith, God is faithful).

And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#24
No problem..I understand...forgive me if I have mis--judged the post then...

..if you are so inclined when you have a chance to watch the video.. I'd be interested in your comments.

This video actually addresses people that hold "grace" as a message only and to remind them that it is all about Jesus!

Bless you and I hope you have a great day!

To be honest I didn't leave this comment to disagree with any point being made in the OP, just was suggesting a possible reason for the "attacks" you were talking about. Sorry if it came across like a disagreement with the points you made up there.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#25
Here is one guys' take on grace and Jesus..

Is Grace a Person?

People sometimes ask me, “Why do you say grace is another name for Jesus?” or “Why do you say grace is a Person?”

Grace isn’t a bunch of rules for you to keep. And grace is not God’s lubricant for greasing the cogs of self effort. Grace is a Person living his life through you. Living under grace is like being married, only more so. It’s the adventure of life shared with Christ. (p.2)

Of course, I am not the only one who says grace is a Person. Many others have, including Joseph Prince:

Grace is not a theology. It is not a subject matter. It is not a doctrine. It is a person, and his name is Jesus. That’s the reason the Lord wants you to receive the abundance of grace, for to have the abundance of grace is to have the abundance of Jesus. (Destined to Reign, p.24)

Prince says that the law is impersonal and was given (suggesting an arms-length transaction), while grace and truth is personal and came when Jesus came (John 1:17).

That sounds good to me, but some people find this weird.
“You make it sound like there’s a fourth member of the Trinity called Grace.”

We’re simply saying that God gives us his grace through his Son. Jesus came full of grace from the One who sits on the throne of grace. He is the personification of the Father’s grace. No Jesus, no grace. Know Jesus, know grace.

“But isn’t it weird to say grace has a personality?”

Maybe, but it’s not without Biblical basis. In Romans Paul describes sin as having a personality. He says sin is a noun (not a verb) characterized by desires and an agenda. In fact, everything the Bible says about sin is true of Satan. Both sin and Satan seek to devour us (Gen 4:7, 1 Pet 5:8) and kill us (Rom 7:11, John 8:44), and both have been defeated by Jesus (Heb 9:26, John 12:31).

Just as sin is synonymous with Satan, grace is synonymous with Jesus. Here are eighteen reasons why.

Why is grace another name for Jesus?


  1. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus (Acts 20:24 2 Th 1:8).
  2. We are saved by grace (Eph 2:5); we are saved by Jesus (2 Tim 1:9).
  3. We are justified by grace (Rom 3:24); we are justified by Jesus (Rom 4:25).
  4. Grace helps us; Jesus helps us (Heb 4:16).
  5. God’s grace offers salvation to all (Tit 2:11); Jesus is the Savior of all (1 Tim 4:10).
  6. God is love and love that stoops (or comes down) is grace; Jesus is the Father’s love come down (John 16:28).
  7. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9) and the Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29).
  8. All the blessings of God come to us by grace alone and all of them are found in Jesus (Eph 1:3).
  9. Grace is a teacher (Tit 2:12); Jesus is a teacher (Matt 8:19).
  10. Grace reigns (Rom 5:21); Jesus reigns (1 Cor 15:25).
  11. When the Galatians cut themselves off from Christ, they cut themselves off from grace (Gal 5:4).
  12. In the same way that God is love, Jesus is grace (see 2 Cor 13:14).
  13. The Bible speaks of “the love of God” and “the grace of Jesus” ( 1Cor 16:23, Rev 22:21).
  14. God’s grace is given in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor 1:4, Eph 1:6, 2 Tim 1:9, 2:1). Jesus is the embodiment of God’s grace.
  15. Here are two Biblical blessings that say the same thing: “The Lord be with you” and “grace be with you” (2 Tim 4:22, Phm 1:25).
  16. The Old Testament prophets foretold the coming of Jesus and the coming of grace (1 Pet 1:10). These weren’t two separate events. Grace came when Jesus came (John 1:17).
  17. To the degree that we know Jesus, we enjoy God’s grace (2 Pet 1:2)
  18. Jesus is the word of God and the word of his grace which can build you up (Act 20:32)




Why does it matter?

This matters a great deal because grace will not bear fruit in your life if you think it is merely a concept or a doctrine. As Judah Smith said recently:

We shudder at the term grace because it has been so maligned, so abused, so misrepresented. We see grace as the get out of jail free card. “Oh yeah, I love me some grace man. I get my jiggy on in the weekend then I come back on Sunday and get me my grace on.” No, that’s not grace. You’ve met a concept, not a Person.”

I regularly encounter people who don’t know what grace is so they misuse it or they attack it. Just the other day someone wrote to tell me that too much preaching on grace leads to wrongdoing. That’s simply not possible when you have a proper understanding of grace. Grace no more leads to wrongdoing than love for your spouse will lead you to Ashley Madison.

The other day I happened to catch a prominent TV evangelist tearing my stuff to shreds on his program. (Watched by millions!) It’s nice to be noticed but I was saddened that he was using his platform to disparage the only thing that can empower people to live well.

I occasionally get asked by pastors to come and preach a sermon or run a seminar on grace because they recognize it as a hot topic. It makes me wonder what they’re preaching when they’re not preaching grace. Jesus is not a “hot topic” or a buzzword to be slotted into your teaching schedule. He’s the Lover of our souls and the Center of Everything!

What grace is not

Grace is not a doctrine or a podcast or a tweet. Grace is not a season to walk through or a midweek seminar. Grace is not one aspect of God’s character to be balanced against his other, less gracious aspects.

Grace is a Person who loves you, died for you, and now lives for you. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus – there is no difference.

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#26
If people are living a sin--focused life they are not in grace. God's grace disciplines us.
What need of discipline for one unconscious of sin?

PS~ I enjoyed the Skit Guys video. Thank you! :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#27
I especially liked this quote...

I regularly encounter people who don’t know what grace is so they misuse it or they attack it. Just the other day someone wrote to tell me that too much preaching on grace leads to wrongdoing.

That’s simply not possible when you have a proper understanding of grace
. Grace no more leads to wrongdoing than love for your spouse will lead you to Ashley Madison.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#28
You are welcome.....this video below is hilarious..( I loved the part where he says..don't look into his eyes as he may take your salt away..)

[video=vimeo;91637264]https://vimeo.com/91637264[/video]

What need of discipline for one unconscious of sin?

PS~ I enjoyed the Skit Guys video. Thank you! :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#29
You are welcome.....this video below is hilarious..( I loved the part where he says..don't look into his eyes as he may take your salt away..)
That one... got good when they finally showed the householder :) I had not even realized it was the same Skit Guy until then (haha).

I have reconsidered what I said, to thinking that chastisement and sin consciousness work hand in hand, that chastisement brings or enhances consciousness of sin. What do you think? I see a lot of dialogue where people seemingly talk past each other on these issues, always something essentially significant gets glossed over over, misunderstood, or misrepresented. Surely you agree that one needs to recognize and repent of sin? At what point does this stop in the present life? Or does it?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#30
Amen!..that's why the gospel is called the gospel of grace...the gospel of Christ..the gospel of God....they all mean the very same thing....it's all to do with Jesus!
Yes but sweet little Jesus will be coming with vengeance on those who refused the Gospel. Can't just take part of Jesus and say that is all of Jesus.

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
(2Th 1:7-10)
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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#31
Actually, I think he said "Don't look at him, he could take away your SOUL."
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#32
I believe in the "Awake to righteousness and sin not "......I think we need to be "righteousness-focused " as Paul says to put on the new man who was created in righteousness and holiness..

I know that God chastises us with His word....so whatever the word that comes to bring the discipline/chastisement ( in the greek it is child-training )..that is what is needed or that particular situation..

..all sin needs to be done away with ...as I have said before a lot of sin is just the "fruit" of the real sin..

For example..If I stead some food..that is a sin for sure..but the real sin to me is the unbelief in the nature and character of my loving Father to look after me like He said He would...that is the "real sin"....we need to repent constantly when we are confronted with the truth of who Jesus is and what He has done for us in His finished work.

I don't think it will ever stop until we get out of these bodies...

That one... got good when they finally showed the householder :) I had not even realized it was the same Skit Guy until then (haha).

I have reconsidered what I said, to thinking that chastisement and sin consciousness work hand in hand, that chastisement brings or enhances consciousness of sin. What do you think? I see a lot of dialogue where people seemingly talk past each other on these issues, always something essentially significant gets glossed over over, misunderstood, or misrepresented. Surely you agree that one needs to recognize and repent of sin? At what point does this stop in the present life? Or does it?
 
S

skylove7

Guest
#33
Yes but sweet little Jesus will be coming with vengeance on those who refused the Gospel. Can't just take part of Jesus and say that is all of Jesus.

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
(2Th 1:7-10)
Amen.....
Crossnote!

Angels don't play harps in lilies....for devil is defeated when men shop at WalMart even lol...

time for devil's destruction....when Jesus time!
Amen!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#34
Yes..sweet little Jesus ( nice way to address our Lord )...even His wrath against sin is a manifestation of His love when He comes and is revealed from heaven.

it the meantime...it's the gospel of the grace of Christ age now...I'll stick to preaching Him and His finished work!

The gospel's secret name is called ( Good news )....




Yes but sweet little Jesus will be coming with vengeance on those who refused the Gospel. Can't just take part of Jesus and say that is all of Jesus.

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
(2Th 1:7-10)
 
S

skylove7

Guest
#35
Jesus loves us....
Yet
He obviously hasn't gave up on hearts...
Or we wouldn't still try...to love
:)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#36
Yes..sweet little Jesus ( nice way to address our Lord )...even His wrath against sin is a manifestation of His love when He comes and is revealed from heaven.

it the meantime...it's the gospel of the grace of Christ age now...I'll stick to preaching Him and His finished work!

The gospel's secret name is called ( Good news )....
I'm just going by the title of the OP...

Grace is not a message - it's a person - Jesus
I suppose now that those who deny the Gospel message but love the Person of Jesus are good to go?

Remember the message defines the Person of Christ...

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:6-9)

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(2Co 11:3-4)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#37
Did you have a chance to watch the video yet?....it is all about Jesus!....the gospel is Jesus......Jesus is good news to us who believe! He is a great and mighty Lord and Savior! His work for us is perfect and complete!

I'm just going by the title of the OP...


I suppose now that those who deny the Gospel message but love the Person of Jesus are good to go?

Remember the message defines the Person of Christ...

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:6-9)

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(2Co 11:3-4)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#38
Did you have a chance to watch the video yet?....it is all about Jesus!....the gospel is Jesus......Jesus is good news to us who believe! He is a great and mighty Lord and Savior! His work for us is perfect and complete!
NO, I don't need a 43 min video to tell me that LOL.
 
S

skylove7

Guest
#39
You are a good bro CN
Just sayin.....

A man could come....emeralds on his coat....sugar dripping from his lips....

Never would he catch my ear....
But my crossnote!
Love you....praying for you and your wife out there in Cali....
Rollsyeyes
You know you are headed north to mountains :p lol
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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#40
I agree to a lot...except there is no grace without truth..they are not separate things...in the original greek structure ..they are joined and held as "one unit" ....it's like the sentence ." To our God and Savior Jesus Christ"...there is no distinction between God and Jesus.

People using "grace" to live however they want are not under grace ( or truth ) at all because "sin shall not be master over you because you are not under law..but grace ".


It is impossible to have pure grace and not have truth. Grace "teaches" us to live uprightly in this present world. If people are living a sin--focused life they are not in grace. God's grace disciplines us.

To suggest that grace and truth are 2 different opposing things is wrong. They are the same thing ..Jesus ..just as you have said.

Unfortunately we are so busy just trying to defend the acceptance grace itself we hardly have time to talk about the other aspects of grace such as the discipline of the Lord which we all love...as it shows He loves us.

I do understand what you are saying brother....where people can say they are under "grace"..but they are not in reality...sometimes it is just growing pains in them..other times it's just outright self-centeredness ..other times it's that they have been deceived by the enemy.

All of the above groups need to hear the gospel of the grace of Christ because in it is the power for salvation to everyone that believes.

Here is a funny skit about grace and truth..you might get a laugh out of...

[video=youtube;thpqXF04IkY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thpqXF04IkY[/video]
Sorry-- my post wasn't specifically directed at you.. the question I had is more directed to those who would believe eternal salvation can be undone.

So I am saying to them.. what? You would only serve God if hell is the consequence for failure?

I ask this q because so often the response when I say I believe in once saved always saved.. is what is the point of serving God if someone couldn't lose salvation.

Are they only serving God because if the fail in the walk they are doomed?

So that is what I was saying.

Cheers :)