The Gospel of Grace - Boasting in God and His Gospel (Another Hyper-Grace Thread)

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The following is a quote from another thread by one who has come to be one of the main opponents to what they believe is a false belief system.

While I admire their passion, I'm a little surprised at their quickness to believe things that are spoken about those who preach the Gospel of Grace (labeled 'Hyper Grace' by authors/teachers/preachers who mix Law and Grace).

Why so many 'Hyper-Grace' threads?

Most of those threads have not been 'Hyper Grace' (as one poster was accused of making - I went through the list of threads he's started - all 87), but have been threads of encouragement to build you believers up in who you are in Christ! Most of the rest have been either attacks by others based on false information about on 'Hyper-Grace' or defenses against those attacks by those who have been seeking to build others UP in their faith.

The mis-perceptions about the Gospel of Grace are many, and one good example is below:





Yet Scripture says:

30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.” (from 1 Cor. 1)

We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (from 2 Cor. 5)




Yes, we are either born of the Spirit or we are not, and it is a gift from God - agreed.

Your next sentence gives a false dichotomy, however: "
Those who are born again of the Holy Spirit will be able to cease from sin, those who cannot cease from sin are called cursed children in scripture."

Those who are born of the Spirit WILL be able to cease from sin - we always have a choice, yes.

Those who are born of the Spirit, however, CAN STILL SIN, and admit it or not, we - you, me, and every other born-of-the-Spirit believer in this life still DOES sin on occasion. It's not who we are, it's not what we want, but we still DO sin.

And believe it or not, there are born-of-the-Spirit-believers out there who STRUGGLE with sinning - addictions, pride, selfishness, bearing false witness . . .

Since the wages of sin is DEATH and not 'loss of fellowship' or punishment until the 'debt is paid', God has constructed His Gospel so that even when we do sin, Scripture tells us that


  1. All of our sins have already been completely forgiven at the Cross (Ps. 103:12, Is. 1:18, Col. 2:13, 1 Jn. 1:9, Acts 10:43***see below, and sooo many others)
  2. God chooses to not hold our sins against us (2 Cor. 5:18-19)
  3. God declared BEFORE the Cross that in His New Covenant He would CHOOSE to be merciful to our iniquities and remember our sins no more (Is. 43:25, Jer. 31:34, Heb. 8:12)


*** Acts 10:43. What I love about forums like this (and I'm being real here - I really do love this part), is that, for me, I'm pushed to the Scriptures to see what God has to say on a matter. When a belief that I hold is challenged, I go to the Scriptures, go to the Greek when a word's definition is needing clarification/definition, consider context, etc., I'm willing to dive in to see what's what. With that in mind, and for your consideration, here's Acts 10:43:

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


  1. release from bondage or imprisonment
  2. forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty


So in reality, after 'whosoever believeth in Him' believes in Him, they are released from bondage and have received forgiveness/pardon of sins - as if they had never been committed!

That's how God can say that He chooses to be merciful to and remember no more our sins while still being JUST. His Justice was satisfied at the Cross.

That's how we can be free from the power of sin:

9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. (from Rom. 6)

That is the message of the Gospel of Grace - you are a forgiven person, now go out an live as who you are in Christ!

All this 'Hyper-Grace' condemnation is very misplaced - those condemning the Gospel of Grace are condemning the very tenets of the faith that they claim to embrace.

Boasting in God and His Gospel (Good News),
-JGIG









Great post and great truth.

One thing that most of us don't really understand..................His Justice was satisfied on the Cross.

Jesus Christ doesn't save us through His attribute of Love or Sovereignty, He saves us through His attribute of JUSTICE and RIGHTEOUSNESS.................Just believe and be saved, because The Lord Jesus Christ satisfied JUSTICE on the Cross.

If he saved us through his Love..........ALL would be saved.

If He saved us through His Sovereignty.........Some would be predestined to Hell.

Justice..............believe what He did on the Cross for all of our sins, your saved.
 
GRACE777x70 I do owe you an apology, for some stupid reason I thought you started this thread, I guess I saw your name or something........so i'm sorry for bothering you here....but since we are here. LOL

I see your bible is very small indeed and even the passages your posting makes no sense to back up your idea's. taking them completely out of context.

lets see: "the more I sin, the more grace I have???? so I guess to get "more grace" I have to sin more......no wait a minute that's right:
Romans 6:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I have to ask, I am not trying to be mean or hurtful in any way, but the way you answered my post has got me to wondering if your a homosexual? are you?

if not I do apologize, but if you read my post and then your replay, it just has me wondering.
 
GRACE777x70 I do owe you an apology, for some stupid reason I thought you started this thread, I guess I saw your name or something........so i'm sorry for bothering you here....but since we are here. LOL

I see your bible is very small indeed and even the passages your posting makes no sense to back up your idea's. taking them completely out of context.

lets see: "the more I sin, the more grace I have???? so I guess to get "more grace" I have to sin more......no wait a minute that's right:
Romans 6:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I have to ask, I am not trying to be mean or hurtful in any way, but the way you answered my post has got me to wondering if your a homosexual? are you?

if not I do apologize, but if you read my post and then your replay, it just has me wondering.

Why not play a little bit................

Transference arrogance..........that which someone try's to accuse of someone else, is actually true about the accuser.
 
no, I'm being serious. if you read the posts then you will no what I'm talking about. if I'm wrong I do apologize.





Why not play a little bit................

Transference arrogance..........that which someone try's to accuse of someone else, is actually true about the accuser.
 
if you believe in this hyper-grace and God forgives future sins before they are committed then you must believe you can live any lifestyle you want.......even murder, suicide etc....an there's is no punishment for it.

"Christians were not justified at calvary we were justified at conversion, big difference
 
if you believe in this hyper-grace and God forgives future sins before they are committed then you must believe you can live any lifestyle you want.......even murder, suicide etc....an there's is no punishment for it.

"Christians were not justified at calvary we were justified at conversion, big difference

No. (2:30 AM almost, so keeping this reply short). That isn't the case because we are new creations, dead to sin and set free from sin's dominion.
 
No. (2:30 AM almost, so keeping this reply short). That isn't the case because we are new creations, dead to sin and set free from sin's dominion.
That looks like you are saying you are incapable of sinning.
 

That isn't the case because we are new creations, dead to sin and set free from sin's dominion.
That looks like you are saying you are incapable of sinning.

In another thread Ben created the idea that when he sins he is automatically repenting, or even better he repents before he commits the sins so everything is ok.

In this idea it does not matter what he does, because it is all in a spiritualised washing machine. So it makes sense that righteousness exists because though a person is sinning he is actually repenting at the same time so it is all alright.

This is where sanity leaves the room and labels become whatever you want them to be.

Bottom line they have zero integrity and to them it does not matter what they say because they believe they are forgiven.
This is antinomianism in action. The fact they the logically deny it does not help, but then lying is just not a problem.
 
Amen..one could say His love took care of the justice...I tend to look at it more from this angle...God needs to get rid of the sin that is destroying the ones He loves deeply. It is definitely because of love He sent Jesus.

I think of God against sin like..being a mother..

I think of it like a mother sees her toddler out in the yard and hornets are stinging him...she runs and hits at the hornets to get them off her son...to the son it "looks" like the mother is mad at the son..but she is really after the hornets.

I hope I am articulating that right..

Great post and great truth.

One thing that most of us don't really understand..................His Justice was satisfied on the Cross.

Jesus Christ doesn't save us through His attribute of Love or Sovereignty, He saves us through His attribute of JUSTICE and RIGHTEOUSNESS.................Just believe and be saved, because The Lord Jesus Christ satisfied JUSTICE on the Cross.

If he saved us through his Love..........ALL would be saved.

If He saved us through His Sovereignty.........Some would be predestined to Hell.

Justice..............believe what He did on the Cross for all of our sins, your saved.
 
No problem brother!

There is more grace for every sin...but why would a Christian "want" to sin...here is what the scriptures say about the abundance of grace no matter how much sin there is..
Romans 5:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:( this word here is where the word for "hyper" is a part of )
[SUP]21 [/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin is not the issue as sin has been done away with Jesus ...grace reigns through the understanding of the grace of Christ and who we are now in Him..in His righteousness.

Lol..no..I am not a homosexual...I just mentioned that because out of the blue you brought in gay pastors in your post....just seemed odd to bring something so foreign into a talk....but I knew it's real purpose was to accuse grace believers in allowing gay pastors which of course is lie from you know who..

It looks like you have fallen to the same myth that grace believers think it is a license to sin..it is the very opposite....here is a teaching that will help you further..

I will post it in a different post for you....have a great day!


GRACE777x70 I do owe you an apology, for some stupid reason I thought you started this thread, I guess I saw your name or something........so i'm sorry for bothering you here....but since we are here. LOL

I see your bible is very small indeed and even the passages your posting makes no sense to back up your idea's. taking them completely out of context.

lets see: "the more I sin, the more grace I have???? so I guess to get "more grace" I have to sin more......no wait a minute that's right:
Romans 6:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I have to ask, I am not trying to be mean or hurtful in any way, but the way you answered my post has got me to wondering if your a homosexual? are you?

if not I do apologize, but if you read my post and then your replay, it just has me wondering.
 
Is Grace a License to Sin?

Grace-preachers attract sinners and that is a good thing. If you are a sinner – you have come to the right place! Sinners are welcome in the House of Grace. I wish our churches were magnets for sinners for that would be a sure sign we were preaching the true gospel of grace.
If this scandalizes you then you may want to avert your eyes from the One called the Friend of Sinners. Jesus didn’t wait for sinners to come to Him; He literally went into their homes and got Himself invited to their parties. That’s because grace is for sinners. It is not for those who think they are basically good and decent people. As Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mt 9:13).

So I suppose I should be thrilled that I get a lot of correspondence from sinners – and I am. What is less thrilling is the correspondence I get from saints who think they are sinners and who want me to validate their choice to act like sinners.

Why do saints act like sinners?

Some may do it out of ignorance (“I am holy? I didn’t know!”) or out of a fatal belief that they can live by law and call it grace (“I’m just trying to live by the red letters of Jesus”). But a saint who acts like a sinner is a hypocrite – they are acting like someone they are not.

In a recent post I dealt with five questions I typically hear from hot-blooded young men. But today I want to answer the biggest question of all…

Is grace a license to sin?

No. It is true that grace brings freedom and that includes the freedom to make poor choices, but if you use your freedom to enslave yourself to sin, then you have missed the point of grace:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (Gal 5:1)

The purpose of grace is to liberate the prisoner and give life to the dead. Grace is also good news for the poor (Lk 4:18-19). So if you use grace to enslave or impoverish yourself by making dumb decisions and indulging the flesh, then you are setting aside grace.

You are not using it for its intended purpose. Grace liberates, but if you use your freedom to discard your freedom, then what was the point? You are no better off than when you started.

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. (Rom 5:20)

Don’t ever fall for the lie that says “I can go on sinning so that grace may abound.” True, your sinning won’t affect God’s love for you, but it will surely affect you. It will enslave you and ultimately kill you. This is not God’s will for your life.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. (Rom 6:1)

Grace is no more a license to sin than electricity is a license to electrocute yourself. True, you can use electricity to electrocute yourself but God forbid that you would! That’s not what it’s for. God created electricity so you could enjoy light and warmth and ESPN’s SportsCenter. Grace, like electricity is meant to bring life not death and there is no life in sin.

We need to see sin for what it really is. It is not some benign activity like making coffee or hitting free-throws down the stretch. As God warned Cain, Sin is a crouching beast that desires to master you. Running after Sin is about as smart as poking a pit-bull with a stick.

They may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom!

The apostle of grace wrote much about how sin enslaves and he wasn’t just talking about sinners: “You are slaves to the one whom you obey” (Rom 6:16). Now please understand I am drawing a big fat line between a saint who occasionally sins and a saint who runs after sin. There is a big difference.

The former finds himself doing what he doesn’t want to do; the latter is doing exactly what he wants to do. If you are troubled when you sin, relax – your discomfort is actually a sign of the new nature and new desires within you. Your heart is to please the Lord. But if you are untroubled when you sin – perhaps because you think grace is a license to sin – then wake up and smell the coffee. Something is very wrong.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age. (Tit 2:11-12)

I am aware that some use this scripture to promote behavior modification thus condemning those who are struggling to overcome sin. (If you are trying to overcome sin, check out the excellent links at the end of this post.) The point I want to make here is this: The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness. So any grace that isn’t teaching you to say “No” is counterfeit grace. Is grace a license to sin? Only if it is fake grace.

So why do I still sin?

I suspect there are two reasons. Either you don’t know who you really are and you are still running on the operating system you had when you followed the way of the world. Or you are an unbeliever. The grace that teaches us to say no only comes through faith. If you don’t believe you can say no then, guess what, you won’t. This is why it is imperative to declare what the Bible says is true about you.

If you are a Christian you are a new creation. The new has come and the old has gone. When you came to Christ you did not sign up for a program of life-long reform and self-improvement. That way lies disaster and disappointment.

Christ is your life. Learn to allow Him to express His flawless, sinless life through your earthen vessel.

When you get up in the morning, look at yourself in the mirror and declare “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” When you’re about to click on a link that you should not click or when reaching for some substance that is killing you, say it again: “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” This is not the power of positive thinking. This is a frail human being tapping into the inexhaustible riches of His transforming grace through faith.

Have faith in God – His grace is powerful! It is the only thing on this earth that can give us freedom from sin and sinning. Live under the fountain of His grace and sin shall not be your master (Rom 6:14).




GRACE777x70 I do owe you an apology, for some stupid reason I thought you started this thread, I guess I saw your name or something........so i'm sorry for bothering you here....but since we are here. LOL

I see your bible is very small indeed and even the passages your posting makes no sense to back up your idea's. taking them completely out of context.

lets see: "the more I sin, the more grace I have???? so I guess to get "more grace" I have to sin more......no wait a minute that's right:
Romans 6:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I have to ask, I am not trying to be mean or hurtful in any way, but the way you answered my post has got me to wondering if your a homosexual? are you?

if not I do apologize, but if you read my post and then your replay, it just has me wondering.
 
here is a visual aid which is funny...well..I guess it depends on what type of a sense of humor one has..

e2r_grace_license_3.jpg



GRACE777x70 I do owe you an apology, for some stupid reason I thought you started this thread, I guess I saw your name or something........so i'm sorry for bothering you here....but since we are here. LOL

I see your bible is very small indeed and even the passages your posting makes no sense to back up your idea's. taking them completely out of context.

lets see: "the more I sin, the more grace I have???? so I guess to get "more grace" I have to sin more......no wait a minute that's right:
Romans 6:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I have to ask, I am not trying to be mean or hurtful in any way, but the way you answered my post has got me to wondering if your a homosexual? are you?

if not I do apologize, but if you read my post and then your replay, it just has me wondering.
 
In another thread Ben created the idea that when he sins he is automatically repenting, or even better he repents before he commits the sins so everything is ok.

In this idea it does not matter what he does, because it is all in a spiritualised washing machine. So it makes sense that righteousness exists because though a person is sinning he is actually repenting at the same time so it is all alright.

This is where sanity leaves the room and labels become whatever you want them to be.

Bottom line they have zero integrity and to them it does not matter what they say because they believe they are forgiven.
This is antinomianism in action. The fact they the logically deny it does not help, but then lying is just not a problem.

This sounds like a new.modern.hyper grace website teaching that claims when a person stumbles and sins they stumble toward Jesus!

When we resist sin now as believers it's not because we're afraid of God or His consequences, instead we have no interest in walking in the same direction as sin because we have been captivated and conquered by Christ and are walking in His direction now. We may stumble occasionally but when we do, we stumble in Christ's direction!​
 
Ephesians 6:10, "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith."

Do you mean the believers, those that are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, made a new creature in Christ, been made a part of the body of Christ, do you mean that group has to be told to do good if they have the opportunity? Absolutely!

Good works do not and will not come automatically in the life of a "true" believer. The word of God instructs us over and over in Paul's epistles how we should be conducting our life. Good works do not come just because you're saved. A believer needs to be in the word of God, daily renewing the mind. Why? Because our flesh will take hold on this world and conform to the things of the world. Romans 12:2 instructs us again, "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,..." Do you mean a believer can conform to this world? Absolutely. If a believer is not in the word of God and being properly disciple, anything is possible.
 
Does Joseph Prince preach this....

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


And yet you still sin - every single day.


My goodness, your yoke must be heavy indeed.
 
That looks like you are saying you are incapable of sinning.

Careful, Magenta, you sound like you are letting the nay-sayers lead you.
You know none of us, Ben especially, has ever even come close to saying that. Even just a couple of the other boys have had the audacity to claim such a silly thing.
 
This sounds like a new.modern.hyper grace website teaching that claims when a person stumbles and sins they stumble toward Jesus!

When we resist sin now as believers it's not because we're afraid of God or His consequences, instead we have no interest in walking in the same direction as sin because we have been captivated and conquered by Christ and are walking in His direction now. We may stumble occasionally but when we do, we stumble in Christ's direction!​

What 777 is saying is so clear. It is almost unfathomable that others can't see it. (My wife keeps telling me it is because of "the veil", and that we just have to wait for it to drop away from their eyes. She tells me, "After all, it took you 20 years of walking with God before you lowered your pride enough to see Jesus' message.")
 
I bet your mother-in-law helped your wife to set you straight too!...:cool:

What 777 is saying is so clear. It is almost unfathomable that others can't see it. (My wife keeps telling me it is because of "the veil", and that we just have to wait for it to drop away from their eyes. She tells me, "After all, it took you 20 years of walking with God before you lowered your pride enough to see Jesus' message.")
 
What 777 is saying is so clear. It is almost unfathomable that others can't see it. (My wife keeps telling me it is because of "the veil", and that we just have to wait for it to drop away from their eyes. She tells me, "After all, it took you 20 years of walking with God before you lowered your pride enough to see Jesus' message.")

Every cult's teachings are "so clear" to its devotees, and hidden from outsiders. The veil in this case is gnosis.