Common Misconceptions Of Hyper-Grace

Grace777x70 · Jan 21, 2016

Here is another post about those that are so concerned about sin.. thank God that He is not an evangelical and that He is not so sinned obsessed ..Jesus took away sin.. we need to preach the gospel and learn what it measn to be "dead to sin "

This is what JGIG had to say below...

Agreed - sin will affect our relationship with God, but not His relationship with us. He is absolutely committed to us - so much so that He was willing to come in the flesh and shed His own Blood.

To quote again,

6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (from Philippians 1)

That promise is not thwarted by our screw-ups. We have an infinitely patient Father Who knows that when we understand Whose we are and what that means, it changes how we behave.

-JGIG

PeterJens · Jan 21, 2016

BenFTW said:

Now there is a lot of difference between understanding our new communion with the Lord and a mystical "spirit".
One big problem in new concepts is each believer interprets it to meet their own particular reading of scripture.

The crux of the discussion is our goal, where we are headed and how. I personally am aware of pure theoretical knowledge but little emotional response is meaningless.

Imagine you have a non-cuddly believer or a shy person or an over the top excited person. How this is expressed in their life will vary. But Jesus changes things, and without change there is little reason be believe anything has taken place.

I do not know if you have ever tried canoeing. When you first get in a boat it is scary. It is odd, new rules, new ways of balancing etc. You know when someone has grasped it, they get in and paddle off. Why is it so hard to say knowing God changes you, if it doesn't something is wrong.

Now the walk is simple. Follow, walk, obey. It spring from your heart, how you are inspired, how you listen, how your conscience works within you and the Spirit directs. And underpinning it all is love and righteousness, the light of Jesus and His presence. This is why I wonder why there is a difference here or even why there are any objections at all.

FreeNChrist · Jan 21, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

That's right.

Justification is objective....Christ’s work for us.

Sanctification is subjective....Christ’s work within us.

That is the mistake all legalists make. They confuse their own ongoing participation in the process of sanctification with God’s finished work in justification. They think that godly practices and good works somehow contribute to their justification. Their performance becomes their preoccupation and the source of their self-righteous pride.

PeterJens · Jan 21, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Now maybe legalists do confuse justification with sanctification. But I am not a legalist.

Ken and my point has always been your walk matters, righteousness is not an add on. Part of the discussion has been the real intent of the law goes deep into the very heart of a person. And I would say amen. It is in our hearts love breaks out.
But how many know what love is? I have spent most of my christian life talking about love, and being enraptured about Jesus's love for everything.

Now it appears here that a lot of people tried efforts to obey the letter without the Spirit to empower them. I would hope they now can testify after really meeting Jesus they now have the power to walk in righteousness. But I do not here this coming from your testimonies. So have you actually met Jesus and been empowered or just had your conscience seared?

Grace777x70 · Jan 21, 2016

We all say behavior matters...here is a teaching on that very subject...

[video=youtube;yPFZv08ZCoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPFZv08ZCoY[/video]

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Grace of the Lord is a wonderful thing.

The problem is if you have a group who are happy to lie, distort, slander, boast, threaten without any moral balance in their hearts, they have already left the gospel far behind.

If someone lies, what normally happens. They say sorry, correct the error and move on.
But for these people there is no moral position or consistency.

Where is the problem? Joseph Prince is a WOF, prosperity and hyper-grace preacher.

They have no theology of suffering, discipline or rebuke. Listen to David,

For they persecute those you wound, and talk about the pain of those you hurt.
Psalm 69:26

David is saying that which the Lord brings, those around just make worse.
Difficulty, work, effort are not bad things but things we bring to victory.
Paul goes on to talk about Jesus and identification with Jesus in his suffering.

Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
Rom 5:3

Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.
Col 1:24

The gospel is about love above circumstance, truth and reality above selfish gain.

So which spirit talks of the easy path, the way with no morals or boundaries? It is not Jesus.

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Here is an open discussion of Andrews teaching. Click on link below :-
Is Andrew Farley's 'The Naked Gospel' the Authentic Gospel?

He again is similar to Hyper-grace is believing we are innately perfect as rebirth.

In one talk he creates an image of the believer but there is no heart with sinful desires at its core which need resolving.
Without resolution of the heart, there is no righteousness or right walk.

Inventing a model that denies the inner tensions of life does not actually resolve them, it just makes the message a joke.

Grace777x70 · Jan 22, 2016

The reason why Farley says we have a new heart is because of this book called a bible that has scriptures in it that "tells" us things about our Lord and what He has done for us at the cross and resurrection.....

It may "conflict" with a religious belief.,....but we all go through that with our understanding and growth in the grace and knowledge of our Lord...

This will be the 6th time these scriptures were given out about the new heart believers have in Christ.. but we will do it again.....hopefully they will help other people reading..

The believers new heart in Christ created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )

Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. ( this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and if we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2016

Thankyou for giving us a display of what you believe.

Again new teaching needs a co-herent theology. Love is the key to transformation, but you cannot command someone to love if they do not have love in their hearts in the first place.

It strikes me though many claim to believe in Christ dying for their sins, they do not love Him. It is like a stranger giving them a get out of jail free card.

An easy question on the scale of love and how clear you are inside, do you love your parents?

We all owe our existence to them and their relationship. Until those to whom you owe your deepest debt is sorted, how can you claim to understand the debt you have to the creator of everything.

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2016

Jesus is fantastic and following Him will transform your life. Amen.

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Dear reader, take a note as to the idea behind this post.

As a christian you know what being born in Christ is. The scriptures are quite clear. Grace7x77 appears to believe normal christian teaching is wrong but he now has the new formula. As this is so fundamental to walking with Jesus, the sub text is we have got it wrong.

Here is the concept. You have been brainwashed, and carnal faith has destroyed real faith.

All I can say in response is these guys have very little confidence in real faith and Jesus's work through the Holy Spirit need special teaching by the chosen ones. If you want a better description of cult or deception that is it.

Grace777x70 · Jan 22, 2016

Amen!.....well said!..keep Jesus in the forefront...grow in the grace and knowledge of Him!

PeterJens said:

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2016

True Grace

In true grace, Jesus walked this earth, spoke His words and was crucified so that we might have life.

The crux of the question is what is life, real life? Is it the fluff of the world, wealth, power, success or love from the heart, loving and being loved. Jesus is saying above everything love conquers all, even death.

Jesus was ambitious. He believed in the love he had, and its power in His followers we are commanded to love everyone, neighbours, friends, family, enemies. He said this is the fulfillment of the law, the LAW at work in reality.

I live in a society were money, status, leisure rule, and not love. In fact people are very scared of other people. Everything is seen as a threat with fences, security etc to separate those who have from those who want. And it is this divide that drives people to gain more, because the only pleasure becomes seeing the glint in another that what they have is fantastic, and if only they had it also. But Jesus says this is all a lie, a lie of the world, a lie of satan himself.

Now love changes you, it makes you someone different. You cannot fake it, it is not something you can invent or lie about and it will appear. Now we know many will come among us who are not one of us, and claim any number of reasons why they need something else than Jesus, and love, and how the world is not evil, it is actually a gift to the chosen.

Now to those who love Jesus, walk on, we walk in the Kingdom in victory. You are worthy because He is worthy, so take heart and follow.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 22, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

What they fail to realize, is when we to to do these good deeds, and live moral lives. We are actually getting in Gods way, We are telling God. thanks God, But I got this one.. If I need your help in this area, I will ask..

God can only work in us when we are as the tax collector on our knees.. Crying put for God to do this great work in us, for we know we do not have the power. or the mindset to do whatever it is God wants us to do.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

So he WILL transform your life. Or he MAY transform your life. Which is it, Because I hear you say alot he may transform your life.. (if he WILL transform your life. then OSAS is in fact a true doctrine)

eternally-gratefull · Jan 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

again your confused.

You claim we need confidence in real faith.

But how can we be confident, if we have real faith, and still can end up not being in heaven?

That is not confidence, that is fear..

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2016

Dear Reader,

Are you in love with LOVE? How can God who is love send people to be destroyed in the lake of fire?
How can God command Israel to wipe out whole tribes, all their property and still be who you worship?

If you can understand the nature of group sin, of cultural suicide and barbarity, child sacrifice, sexual prostitution as a religioius right, and any number of sexual deviances being practised by these groups, you will begin to understand what sin is.

If you see the discussions about sin, from the wretched butcher of innocents to the super-sensitive nice person who if they say just one word out of place feel guilty, you will begin to understand the confusion on morality.

We now live is heaven on earth, fed, watered, educated, all our needs met and with time to spare. We live like kings, and very long lives 70+ years. No other period in human history has this every happened. And yet in this paradise still love is not understood or the highest ethic of all. The highest ethic is excuses for failure and sin, and hiding our issues rather than helping each other fulfill the promise Christ gave us in the cross.

Do you believe in Jesus? Then live it. Else stop belly aching about theology and leave the church. There are much better things you could be doing.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

Dear Reader,

Are you in love with LOVE? How can God who is love send people to be destroyed in the lake of fire?
How can God command Israel to wipe out whole tribes, all their property and still be who you worship?

If you can understand the nature of group sin, of cultural suicide and barbarity, child sacrifice, sexual prostitution as a religioius right, and any number of sexual deviances being practised by these groups, you will begin to understand what sin is.

If you see the discussions about sin, from the wretched butcher of innocents to the super-sensitive nice person who if they say just one word out of place feel guilty, you will begin to understand the confusion on morality.

We now live is heaven on earth, fed, watered, educated, all our needs met and with time to spare. We live like kings, and very long lives 70+ years. No other period in human history has this every happened. And yet in this paradise still love is not understood or the highest ethic of all. The highest ethic is excuses for failure and sin, and hiding our issues rather than helping each other fulfill the promise Christ gave us in the cross.

Do you believe in Jesus? Then live it. Else stop belly aching about theology and leave the church. There are much better things you could be doing.

I can see a 1st century Jew preaching in the synogog this very thing.. Do as God says, if you do not like it, Get out.. Thank God I am not like the sinner......

In fact they do so every day..

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2016

One simple test of a church following Jesus

If someone is in sin, real sin, obvious clear sin, see how the church reacts if they are confronted.
If you are thrown out of the church, you know they are following sin and approving sinful behaviour.

Everytime we share about righteousness, the cry is we accept walking in righteousness is the way.
But when it comes to reality, even God is not allowed to convict of sin.

Do you see this type of church is the new testament? Corinth.
What did Paul do? He rebuked them for accepting incest in there midst.
Now if people claim the name "christian" yet no standards exist, they are following a different gospel.

Now that is fine, it is their choice, but they cannot claim it is the faith of the Apostles or Jesus as recorded in scripture.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

By following this test.

1. Catholics are saved
2. Pharisees were saved (even though they denied Christ, They through people out of their synogogs, or churhces, who sinned.
3. All religious churches who will cast people out because they commit certain sins, whether they have the right gospel or not. is the correct church.
Shoot. that must means muslims and other religions are ok to. because they do the same thing..

what is it that makes the true christian church a true church? Accordin gto your standard, we can never know who that church is.

Common Misconceptions Of Hyper-Grace

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