Are women allowed to Preach?

[Grace777x70]

Hey folks...imagine the chaos and the loss of "sound doctrine" if women were actually "in Christ and human too" and they were allowed to preach the good news of Christ and His grace...and wear pants at the same time...

 

[Billyd]

I'm going to approach this subject from the position of an old man who has grown up in church.

Without the wonderful women teachers in my life (mother, grandmothers, and Sunday school teachers), I probably would never have read a single scripture. If I had followed the example of most of the men that I grew up around, I would rarely set foot in church, spend most of my life criticizing preachers, telling mama to stay home from that den of hypocrites, spend every weekend at the local tavern, and a long list of other things. The funny thing about those men was that each and every one of them were raised and taught by many of the same women who taught me. There was one difference. One of my grandfather's was forced by the mother of the woman that he was madly in love with, to return to church and regularly attend it before he could marry her. Some twenty years after he married her, he was saved, and he spent the remainder of his life showing his grandchildren what a life lived for Christ was like. He was never a teacher of scripture, or a preacher. He never directly lead a single sole to Christ, but the last forty plus years of his life was an example that resulted in many others coming to Christ.

Why did I post the above? Without Godly women, who studied the Bible, and read it daily with their children, taught it weekly in a Sunday school class, and always lived a life for God, the church that I grew up in, and many other churches of the time would no longer exist. Most of those women have gone on to be with the lord, but they left behind a new teachers and Godly mothers who, without exception, would tell you that under no circumstances would they accept a woman as a pastor. They would cite 1 Timothy 3:1-11. In my eyes, and most men who grew up in my community, all of these women knew more than most pastors that we have ever known. Whether these wonderful women believed it or not, they were the true pastors in our lives.

The question, "Are women allowed to preach?" will be debated until Jesus returns. There are several women on this site who are pastors, and I have a great respect for both their dedication, and their knowledge of the scriptures. I also feel that God has called them to their ministries. As many have used scripture to demonstrate that God uses women for various purposes, I believe that God will use these dedicated women to his glory, and I will pray for them and their ministry. My answer to the question is "yes".

 

[JosephsDreams]

I disagree with your view, and here's why: There are many cultures that were not based on the "Adam and Eve" story, but instead had other creation stories for their culture. Some of these stories involve women in a more elevated way. However, matriarchies (women-led cultures) have been very few and far between.

The subjugation of women (and children, and the handicapped, etc.) has always been due to perceived vulnerability and weakness. So, because in ancient times there was a greater need for physicality in day-to-day living, men were perceived as superior due to their greater physiological strength. Also, in the absence of any enforced social order, MIGHT actually does make RIGHT. Without enforced laws, for example, stronger people can mistreat weaker people and benefit from it. I don't think it's shocking for anyone to say that the history of humankind is the history of the pursuit of self. If you are only concerned about meeting your own needs and desires, you won't hesitate to do anything to make that happen--including manipulating and subjecting the weak. This, btw, STILL happens. Laws cannot force people to be moral. For example, while it's *morally right* to pay workers a living wage, insure safe conditions, etc., there are plenty of companies that engage in legal but immoral shenanigans to increase the profit margins of a few at the expense of the masses. You even (unfortunately) see this within Christianity as well. The vast majority of televangelists make their exorbitant incomes off of the backs of the poor, sick, and disenfranchised.

However, when you look at the bible as a whole, it is very clear that God has a heart for the weak, poor, sick, and disenfranchised. His agenda is for these groups to be cared for by those who are stronger, richer, and more able. Part of the measure of any civilization (if you look through Christian lenses) is how that culture takes care of its most vulnerable members. This is why there are verses about how rape should be handled, for example. (Verses that might seem harsh to modern readers, but that were actually exercising justice at that time). There are lots of examples of God elevating and valuing females in the bible--ultimately culminating in the birth of the Savior from an impregnated woman. Jesus consistently valued women in his ministry. The NT has lots of examples of women actively working with the Apostles to build the church.

In my opinion, the reason we have laws protecting the women and the weaker members of society is a manifestation of the Christianizing of the world. (The WHEAT does grow with the tares). For example, children were once considered the "property" of parents. Parents could mistreat and abuse children in many ways without consequence. Now, we have lots of laws to help protect children from abuse. The same is true for women. Women used to be property owned first by their fathers and then by their husbands. Now, women (in the Western world, especially) have political agency, they can own property and businesses, they have access to education, and can achieve comparable incomes to males in most fields.

If a person's philosophy is that women are less valuable than men, it's easy to misquote or misinterpret scripture to prove that. However, that really has nothing to do with God's clearly revealed perspective. So, if someone wants to stand on "Eve sinned first" as a reason to malign or mistreat women, ultimately that person will stand before God to answer for it.

I agree. I did not think of that, and I believe that is a prevalent reason why it was/is so.
Maybe the main reason of it being so.
I do believe that the reason I stated is also a factor, just maybe not as prominent, after reading your post, as I had thought before I read your post.
Sinful people will twist things around to meet their selfish lusts, desires, and needs.
Thank you for the insight.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Just to develop that thought - while this myth is easily known, it's the ones that we think are true and apply to Scripture that are the really dangerous ones .

I did not for a second believe anyone here would have taken that seriously, not for a moment.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Of course its a generalization.

I know, I did not post it for me, or you, but more for if someone comes on and starts to rebuke you for being a racist, or whatever.

 

[coby]

Hey folks...imagine the chaos and the loss of "sound doctrine" if women were actually "in Christ and human too" and they were allowed to preach the good news of Christ and His grace...and wear pants at the same time...

Women should preach, because men only preach the hyper grace doctrin of men.

 

[John146]

The issue in Timothy is whether of not God has allowed women to be pastors of the assembly of believers, a local church. We all know women are called to teach and preach the Gospel, but that's not pastoring a church. God has given us order for the local church. God even states in 1 Timothy 3 states that a bishop is to be the husband of one wife and how he is to rule his own house well before he pastors a church. "For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?" Please, don't come with cultural differences between then and now. Let's just obey what we've been given in Scripture.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Does this dress make me look big?

Suppose the answer to that depends on a man's level of survival instinct.

 

[Grace777x70]

Suppose the answer to that depends on a man's level of survival instinct.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Interestingly enough, the CHATTIEST person in the study was a MAN who spoke 47,000 words a day.

See your point, but perhaps transgender issues should be another thread.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Women should preach, because men only preach the hyper grace doctrin of men.

And eternal insecurity, being ready for the coming of antichrist, instead of Christ, Christ of a myriad of sacred names, according to the secret decoder ring of the Torah codes, some men here even too perfect to grace (Oops! Wrong word!) the pulpit. Sometimes the doctrines of dudes do get old, at least if you want to keep calling it ChristianChat.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Of course its a generalization.

You're a racist! Or whatever.

 

[Grace777x70]

Oh No!..you said the "g" word..grace!..now you are in for it....get ready to have your ears boxed ...

And eternal insecurity, being ready for the coming of antichrist, instead of Christ, Christ of a myriad of sacred names, according to the secret decoder ring of the Torah codes, some men here even too perfect to grace (Oops! Wrong word!) the pulpit. Sometimes the doctrines of dudes do get old, at least if you want to keep calling it ChristianChat.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Oh No!..you said the "g" word..grace!..now you are in for it....get ready to have your ears boxed ...

They haven't showed up yet, but I'm sure hoping the partially dematerialized ones, who don't even go to the bathroom, overlook this thread! I'm a 'skairt!

 

[JosephsDreams]

Hey folks...imagine the chaos and the loss of "sound doctrine" if women were actually "in Christ and human too" and they were allowed to preach the good news of Christ and His grace...and wear pants at the same time...

The world is not chaotic enough for you?

 

[Yet]

Yes, as long as they're not pushing Diana.

 

[coby]

I'm going to approach this subject from the position of an old man who has grown up in church.

Without the wonderful women teachers in my life (mother, grandmothers, and Sunday school teachers), I probably would never have read a single scripture. If I had followed the example of most of the men that I grew up around, I would rarely set foot in church, spend most of my life criticizing preachers, telling mama to stay home from that den of hypocrites, spend every weekend at the local tavern, and a long list of other things. The funny thing about those men was that each and every one of them were raised and taught by many of the same women who taught me. There was one difference. One of my grandfather's was forced by the mother of the woman that he was madly in love with, to return to church and regularly attend it before he could marry her. Some twenty years after he married her, he was saved, and he spent the remainder of his life showing his grandchildren what a life lived for Christ was like. He was never a teacher of scripture, or a preacher. He never directly lead a single sole to Christ, but the last forty plus years of his life was an example that resulted in many others coming to Christ.

Why did I post the above? Without Godly women, who studied the Bible, and read it daily with their children, taught it weekly in a Sunday school class, and always lived a life for God, the church that I grew up in, and many other churches of the time would no longer exist. Most of those women have gone on to be with the lord, but they left behind a new teachers and Godly mothers who, without exception, would tell you that under no circumstances would they accept a woman as a pastor. They would cite 1 Timothy 3:1-11. In my eyes, and most men who grew up in my community, all of these women knew more than most pastors that we have ever known. Whether these wonderful women believed it or not, they were the true pastors in our lives.

The question, "Are women allowed to preach?" will be debated until Jesus returns. There are several women on this site who are pastors, and I have a great respect for both their dedication, and their knowledge of the scriptures. I also feel that God has called them to their ministries. As many have used scripture to demonstrate that God uses women for various purposes, I believe that God will use these dedicated women to his glory, and I will pray for them and their ministry. My answer to the question is "yes".

Yes that's funny. It's never debated if they can do Sunday school lessons. It's so awesome to teach your own kids. You just tell them and they believe it. I had conversations on an atheist forum. So tiresome. They didn't accept anything I said and had all those difficult questions I had to look up. Then my son who was then 5 or 6 came with the exact same questions. Why are there earthquakes? Why did God create the devil? Hey and now I knew all the answers and he just accepted it and was so happy with it. Wow.

 

[crossnote]

I just received the question from one of my friends, What is the best explanation to this?

1Ti 2:11-14
(11) Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively.
(12) I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
(13) For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
(14) And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result.

Is there a mixup of the Jewish culture and christianity?

The issue here is not preaching or teaching but teaching and having authority over men.
Of course they can be evangelists, missionaries, teachers of other women and children.

 

[Utah]

I know, I did not post it for me, or you, but more for if someone comes on and starts to rebuke you for being a racist, or whatever.

Thank you, friend. I truly appreciate that, and please understand this is in no way a stinger, slight or negative connotation whatsoever towards you, but rather towards such people looking to rebuke me, if any, but I don't cower to politically correct thought police. I speak from the heart, and whether people agree with me or not, they know they can trust me when I say something. I'm not threatened with being called a racist, a sexist, or any other "ist". And when the thought police understand that, something magical happens, they become defanged. But again, thanks for looking out for me.

 

[Depleted]

"(13) For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
(14) And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result."

I would only say it was God's good pleasure to make man first, so what?
The bible says man was created in God's image. Does that mean males, or both male and female?
And if God created only man in his image, in the big picture, does it really matter that much?
Does God think less of woman, or love woman less if He created man in His image?
Or does God love man any less if He created humans in the image of a woman?
Are we not secure in God's love for us, whatever gender, race, financial status, physical or intellectual structure?

Woman sinned first, again, so what?
I certainly don't consider myself 'purer' or superior because of that, nor should any man, nor should a female feel inferior.
We all have sin nature, regardless of culture, birthplace, birthdate, or any other external circumstances.
Woman are no better then men (although in this perverse generation in this country, society has tried to brainwash us to believe that woman are more "evolved" then men, which is yet just another lie in a long and sorry list of them, from the devil). and of course visa versa.

On another related but somewhat off topic subject;
does anyone here believe that the subjugation of woman, starting in ancient times, was based on their knowledge that Eve committed the first sin? That they believed that because of Eve they were living in a fallen world and "had to" treat woman the way they did due to that knowledge?
Before anyone accuses me of agreeing with that sort of mentality because I mentioned it, I am not, I am merely saying that this is the why and the where the treatment of woman as second class people for many cultures throughout much of history may have originated from.

Woman sinned first. God put the blame on Adam though. It's always "through Adam." The only thing Eve got, (which is a whooper if you're a mom), is pain in childbirth.

And, in my best authoritative, adult, mature voice, I say, "Nannynannybooboo" for anyone who wants to lower the status of women based on who sinned first.